"V2" Koolance *Dual D-5* Bay Reservoir! (RP-452X2)

[Endgame]

Vapor - As Koolance is selling perhaps ten to thirty thousand of these 452X2 units across the globe, the feedback across the board is mediocre to poor performance when pumps are used in a serial setup and terrible performance when two separate loops are used due to poor engineering and bleed problems. This is revision 4 and counting. You slammed me for using harsh words to criticize the first few revisions of this product, but I believe my criticisms are still being held up as valid. The language may have been a bit much but the main points were pretty valid. If you were one of the many readers of XS Liquid Cooling who spent your hard earned $129 to listen to cavitation for weeks on end, you might consider some of the unhappy campers. Not everyone has a $2000 water cooling budget with which to experiment on poor revisions of this reservoir time and time again.

Wouldn't fill and bleeding problems be solved with a simple T line before the first pump in the series, and keeping the first pump at low speed? Its not like the WC community hasn't already been doing that for years -- I see this product more as an excellent way to get a pair of D5s into a pair of 5.25" bays with a rez built it. The 452 will help bleeding and potentially filling the system, not as the sole fill and bleed point.

[Koolance]

Will there be a DDC version of this res comming out soon?

We released the RP-401X2 (DDC) some time ago which follows this type of design. We won't be updating RP-402X2 (dual bay version) again because the single bay RP-401X2 appears much more popular.

It's no wonder Koolance don't do sponsored builds because the stock would be 5 revisions out of date by the time the stuff arrived and the build was complete! Not a happy bunny...

We don't have any policy that disallows us from sponsorships, and we do assist with some builds. Unfortunately, as a small company, we can't afford to support most of the inquiries we receive. We don't want anyone to take it personally. There are a ton of great builds going on and we wish we could assist them all.

We realize the RP-452X2 has gone through quite a few revisions in a short amount of time-- more than we would like. The enthusiasm we received from the cooling community after the original launch accelerated our revision process. Most of our updates were rather minor so we're trying to avoid small, frequent updates in the future.

Koolance - The reason to mount the pumps in the orientations shown by Laing if because the force (cross product from the right hand rule) generated by the magnetic field needs to either oppose gravity or be perpendicular to it. To turn the pump upside down means that small gaps will occasionally occur and your head pressure will decrease. In the end, you will have excess heat build up on the coils and circuit board possibly, and impeller scaring on the delrin base. Koolance, I dont know your real name, but isnt it about time Koolance the company, let a professional engineer with a university degree who knows something about EM fields and the wave equation design Revision 3.0 ?

My real name is Tim, which I sign after all my posts. According to Oliver Laing, the inverted orientation is not recommended to avoid issues with air. If you burp the pump before running it, there shouldn't be any problem. We haven't encountered any difference in pump failure between our products with upright pumps versus upside-down, even after tens of thousands of pumps. For performance, our RP-401X2 was designed for two inverted DDC pumps, which Martin listed as his "highest performing Koolance top tested to date".

I understand having air bubbles going through a pump until bled is extremely annoying, but individual systems vary in bleeding requirements and installation technique. There are alternative ways to avoid air going through a component if it's proving more difficult, including placing a fill port elsewhere in the system. It's no comfort to those experiencing problems, but the vast majority of RP-452X2 users are getting their Rev.1.0-1.3 units to bleed.

Tim

[drkCrix]

Thank you for your reply Tim,

1 more question, how well do the inlet/outlet ports on the TNK-501 and the RP-401x2 line up? I want to have the RP on top of the TNK, would I be able to use a couple of 90 adapters and a small piece of tubing to connect them?

Thanks again Tim

[Koolance]

Thank you for your reply Tim,

1 more question, how well do the inlet/outlet ports on the TNK-501 and the RP-401x2 line up? I want to have the RP on top of the TNK, would I be able to use a couple of 90 adapters and a small piece of tubing to connect them?

Thanks again Tim

Here's a picture:



Tim

[aerial]

I have question regarding RP-452X2.

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/2725/koolance1.jpg

I want to use two pumps in serial, but instead of using that 180 degree connecting pipe, I'd like to connect there a radiator. Does it make difference? I think someone suggested it can be used like that, but was referring to different model of koolance reservoirs. I want to make sure.
Sometimes such connection greatly simplifies the loop, more than if we have just one input and output reservoir.

[Martinm210]

Yes. substituting a component instead of the 180 works just fine. Some have even said it works better. I test with a piece of tubing vs the 180 and got the same performance either way.

[jayhall0315]

Wouldn't fill and bleeding problems be solved with a simple T line before the first pump in the series, and keeping the first pump at low speed? Its not like the WC community hasn't already been doing that for years -- I see this product more as an excellent way to get a pair of D5s into a pair of 5.25" bays with a rez built it. The 452 will help bleeding and potentially filling the system, not as the sole fill and bleed point.

I agree with your point about fitting two D5s into a pair of 5.25" bays. That is why I bought the 452X2 in the first place. As to the T-line, yes, that is what I, Martinm and many others have had to do to get everything bled out. Unfortunately, that is also a real pain the butt and often requires tipping your case (sometimes, for hours at a time) at weird angles. With a few simple design changes and baffle restructuring, there would be no need for this.

[jayhall0315]

We released the RP-401X2 (DDC) some time ago which follows this type of design. We won't be updating RP-402X2 (dual bay version) again because the single bay RP-401X2 appears much more popular.



We don't have any policy that disallows us from sponsorships, and we do assist with some builds. Unfortunately, as a small company, we can't afford to support most of the inquiries we receive. We don't want anyone to take it personally. There are a ton of great builds going on and we wish we could assist them all.

We realize the RP-452X2 has gone through quite a few revisions in a short amount of time-- more than we would like. The enthusiasm we received from the cooling community after the original launch accelerated our revision process. Most of our updates were rather minor so we're trying to avoid small, frequent updates in the future.



My real name is Tim, which I sign after all my posts. According to Oliver Laing, the inverted orientation is not recommended to avoid issues with air. If you burp the pump before running it, there shouldn't be any problem. We haven't encountered any difference in pump failure between our products with upright pumps versus upside-down, even after tens of thousands of pumps. For performance, our RP-401X2 was designed for two inverted DDC pumps, which Martin listed as his "highest performing Koolance top tested to date".

I understand having air bubbles going through a pump until bled is extremely annoying, but individual systems vary in bleeding requirements and installation technique. There are alternative ways to avoid air going through a component if it's proving more difficult, including placing a fill port elsewhere in the system. It's no comfort to those experiencing problems, but the vast majority of RP-452X2 users are getting their Rev.1.0-1.3 units to bleed.

Tim

Thanks for the reply Tim. With all due respect to Martinm, that was a personal review and not an engineering quality control test. The inverted operation should be okay but at the cost of increased chance of cavitation. And you are right, you can get the 452X2 bled, but it takes a long time and is a right royal pain in the butt (even more so, when you try to use two separate loops). I like your comments about avoiding small frequent updates in the future. For your next Version 2.0, might I kindly suggest, a true quality control testing over several months before its release, in real world cases and under multiple real world usage scenarios. This is going to be the best shot at not possibly turning off future users who would buy even more Koolance gear. While a knowledgeable university educated engineer is not a miracle solution to all quality control or design problems, such an individual can often correct or catch some of the minor mistakes I see which have afflicted the 452X2 revisions 1.0 to 1.3. I think this product has the potential to be great but I think it needs to be done right , before any future releases.

[douglatins]

I have the REV 1.3. Bought a week before 2.0 came available. (Major rage ensued)
I used the P1 since one looked to be the main for one pump, despite being blocked and P2 available when i opened.
I was the single most major pain in the ass I have ever had. Luckly i tried filling and bleeding outside the case, i got water everywhere. Floor, table, etc.
My loop has really bad temps 75C at 4ghz i7 with a RX360 rad, and i believe its either because of bad mount, or airfilled loop due to the koolance bayres.
After hours and many curses i think i got at least the entire bayres filled to the point where it overflows if any port is open, even the top. I had to rotate the case front facing up fill then start pump, turn of pump rotate front facing front, add more water and loop that 2-3 times.

Ok im diverging. Where should i place my pump for single pump usage in Rev1.3?? P1 or P2? and should the res be like 70% full or 100% full is better?

[D749]

For your next Version 2.0, might I kindly suggest, a true quality control testing over several months before its release, in real world cases and under multiple real world usage scenarios. This is going to be the best shot at not possibly turning off future users who would buy even more Koolance gear.

If another version comes out anytime soon I'm done with Koolance. Period.

These things should be fully tested prior to release. I've owned a V1.2, 1.3 and now a V2.0. Luckily there's eBay.

[douglatins]

If another version comes out anytime soon I'm done with Koolance. Period.

These things should be fully tested prior to release. I've owned a V1.2, 1.3 and now a V2.0. Luckily there's eBay.

I for one cant get rid of mine 1.3, how much less worse is the 2.0?