Rf-83

[[DANGERDAN]]

Yea i tried the sub pre out and it doesn't work the same as a standard pre out so that takes that idea out, do you believe that if 80 watts could get to a certain SPL without distortion would 130 watts to the same SPL level give a better SQ ?

[Nanometer]

Technically yes it can, but as always results vary. And that ranges based on a lot of factors. Quality amp, decent cables, and you seem to have a good tower speaker already taken care of. In general, an amp that can drive more power can give better sound quality. I use the word can, because I don't know what products you are comparing so it's kind of a shoot in the dark.

[[DANGERDAN]]

I am learning more and more through the days, but i believe i have most of it pat down.
A lot of people and i mean a lot seem to believe that watts are watts and if a speaker can be powered to a acceptable volume level without distortion its enough and would not require a amp upgrade.
But to me of course this does not make sense to me after taking a closer look into the physics of how power works and came to a conclusion that those people were biased s who can only afford cheap equipment (no offense xD).
So with the RF83/7 yes they are very efficient speakers but this is mostly only because of the horn loaded tweeters, these things use only about 15 watts if that of any kind of power.
As we all should know though most of the required power to drive a speaker is down below 200hz range and this is where a lot of the good bass sounds come from, bass guitar, drums, kick drum.
The RF83/7 are known to have a impedance drop of 2.8ohm at around the 200hz and under mark, but this isn't just because of the frequency its because it has to drive three 8" or two 10" at the same time and as you can imagine can be quite difficult because of how much air it has to push and how fast.
You can supply these speakers with low watts and get really loud levels but you will not get the full sound quality that the speakers can produce unless you supply high current and clean power so it can handle the impedance drops and be able to get a more powerful control over the woofers to produce better low frequency's

Said it like i had experienced it, but i am convinced by my research that my theory is correct and i will see in time when i get a beast PSU and prove myself right , but i have read countless people upgrading their amps and the speaker quality would improve across the bass frequency always.
I know i promised pictures but my room is real crappy and would get such a hard time because of it lol.

[Nanometer]

What you said sounds pretty good to me, except a teeny tiny part. You can drive any amount of wattage and it will all sound about the same sound pressure wise (sound level). Sound quality comes from like what you said, quality power and amplification which comes from a good amp. Supplying 150 watts of power can sound different on many different amps based on their quality. Just like a computer power supply, you can get a psu that gives 500 watts of power for 30 dollars, or you can spend 130 dollars. The difference is in the quality of power. Though we dont actually listen to the signal of our power supplies, if we did there would be a big difference in distortion levels based on the filtration of the system power. Relating that to speaker terms, better quality amps and circuits give a better quality sound. =)

I'll show you mine as well, I'd like to take a pic for fun. Though my area is kinda dirty too..tv area that is.

[[DANGERDAN]]

Yea the RMS watts has been a confusing factor with sound producing hardware, most of the mass market audio manufacturers do not build high current amps because they are more expensive to build and they prefer to simply produce amps that can pass the FTC rule.
Watts is really only for SPL now days as most amps can produce enough power to make any speaker today loud enough without distortion, its quality of power that a lot of people seem to be misguided by.
Current, transition change between power levels, distortion, even the preamp is important because they all control the beginning of the signal and how the sound comes out.

slap me on the face, some photo's will be nice i guess if you show me yours il show you mine tehe :P.

[Donnie27]

Yea the RMS watts has been a confusing factor with sound producing hardware, most of the mass market audio manufacturers do not build high current amps because they are more expensive to build and they prefer to simply produce amps that can pass the FTC rule.
Watts is really only for SPL now days as most amps can produce enough power to make any speaker today loud enough without distortion, its quality of power that a lot of people seem to be misguided by.
Current, transition change between power levels, distortion, even the preamp is important because they all control the beginning of the signal and how the sound comes out.

slap me on the face, some photo's will be nice i guess if you show me yours il show you mine tehe :P.

Yes, I miss the way they did it in the old days. My so called low watt Harmon Kardon 730 and Harmon Kardon 245 have the same volume level or SPL as most receivers rated 3 times more powerful

Don't forget the role source material plays as well!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war

I still use turn tables with fairly good Shure "needles".

[[DANGERDAN]]

More research for me and i found a really good story over from the klipsch forums, one guy was having a problem with getting any bass from his khorn monster speakers with his dual mono tube amps.
After his efforts of ruling out a room issues and things like phase connection he decided to get a class A amp and he retrieved his ground thumping bass like that, he came to the conclusion that the amp was designed for efficient or more respectively (loud) speakers.
The amp was drowning out the LF signal with more HF, either because of a power issue (impedance) or because of the design of the amp itself and just the sound it makes.
But all and all Amps do make a difference and with a little test myself i am now more convinced than ever of his theory.

By running a tone generator i played a 200hz signal and placed one amp to the left speaker and another to the right giving me the option to switch the signal between amps from a click of a button.
After playing the signal and adjusting the SPL of each speaker to a relatively identical sound levels for both speakers i left the sound sensitivity and played a song from my list, i found that with the sony amp i could hear all singing voices come through nice and loud but the marantz amp was like a whisper in the night.

So from that i found the sony was drowning out the sub sounds because of the HF output (2khz^), giving me the possibility to raise the SPL signal on the marantz and get that better LF sound.

Sorry if this gets annoying but i do enjoy posting my finds, there is a question in this however.
I was using 3.5m analog jack (asus D2X ultra) for the marantz and hdmi (ATI 5870) digital for the sony, what kind of sound effect if there is one does these two have in difference, thanks fellas.

[Nanometer]

The audio jack is an analog signal, the hdmi is digital. They could but should not sound different, though you may be able to get better bit rates using digital audio. Unless you are playing games, the sound card is pretty much obsolete, i ditched mine last year, forever.

[Donnie27]

More research for me and i found a really good story over from the klipsch forums, one guy was having a problem with getting any bass from his khorn monster speakers with his dual mono tube amps.
After his efforts of ruling out a room issues and things like phase connection he decided to get a class A amp and he retrieved his ground thumping bass like that, he came to the conclusion that the amp was designed for efficient or more respectively (loud) speakers.
The amp was drowning out the LF signal with more HF, either because of a power issue (impedance) or because of the design of the amp itself and just the sound it makes.
But all and all Amps do make a difference and with a little test myself i am now more convinced than ever of his theory.

By running a tone generator i played a 200hz signal and placed one amp to the left speaker and another to the right giving me the option to switch the signal between amps from a click of a button.
After playing the signal and adjusting the SPL of each speaker to a relatively identical sound levels for both speakers i left the sound sensitivity and played a song from my list, i found that with the sony amp i could hear all singing voices come through nice and loud but the marantz amp was like a whisper in the night.

So from that i found the sony was drowning out the sub sounds because of the HF output (2khz^), giving me the possibility to raise the SPL signal on the marantz and get that better LF sound.

Sorry if this gets annoying but i do enjoy posting my finds, there is a question in this however.
I was using 3.5m analog jack (asus D2X ultra) for the marantz and hdmi (ATI 5870) digital for the sony, what kind of sound effect if there is one does these two have in difference, thanks fellas.

Not annoying and very interesting IMHO! HDMI vs Analog is very much Source and System dependent. Most younger folks have gotten use to SPL. Many are shocked when they are introduced to a FULL old school system. Ask a believer like Raptor-22?

The real tests are done at about voice level and not at a Night Club's SPL, though that is important as well. Much more of the Music (wider frequency, Imaging/Presence and etc....) can be heard. I just never really liked anything made by Sony for the Mainstream. Sony invented the wattage lie and they're given credit for the Loud vs Quality according to musicians and audiophiles (thats real audiophiles and not Audiophools!).

http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/14...DAD_2496_24192

I got into it with Audiophile wanna-be's talking about Hi-Fi from CD Audio and LMMFAO! A good Mid ranged Play Back System with Better Source Material will kick the s#it out of a High-end sytem with CD Audio Of course Hi-Fi with Hi-Fi source material kicks the most @$$!

[[DANGERDAN]]

yea sony are like that, but not only with the watts they do it with things like with their speakers and their hugee Frequency Response 35-50,000 Hz .
Using marketing gimmicks like these are what make sony just that little bit more err whats the word without swearing lol.

Thanks guys awesome peeps ily ily.

[Donnie27]

yea sony are like that, but not only with the watts they do it with things like with their speakers and their hugee Frequency Response 35-50,000 Hz .
Using marketing gimmicks like these are what make sony just that little bit more err whats the word without swearing lol.

Thanks guys awesome peeps ily ily.

QFT! and you're welcome!

Every time I try to start a Project, my House, Wife or Daughter cause a Delay. I finally broke down and bought an Outside Antenna. Killed Cable thinking I'd get Direct TV. Speaking of "Fibbers" like Sony, Comcast has them beat