EK news - No RMA if you have PTnuke ... ** edit **

[Petra]

You can't make a claim that EK has the best Customer Service... have you dealt with EVERY manufacturer? Seriously doubt that; I for one know Koolance has great customer service, but I don't go around saying they have the best [not taking anything away from EK as I have blocks made by them but never had to deal with them].

A good point... and an interesting one to think about considering that most of my experience with water cooling manufacturers, distributors, and such is from the standpoint of a reseller and consultant, not as an individual/end user with no real industry affiliation. Honestly, it can be quite a bit different...

[Boulard83]

+1 on everything you said penguins !

My goal by starting this thread wasnt to harm EK/Eddy but to make a reaction ( mostly from Petra, Martinm and other "power user" from XS). And it worked. Im 100% conviced that PTnuke (PHN or CU) cant harm acrylic like they told. Maybe some O-ring dont like it. Need to be tested.

So EK, please test correctly and be sure that PTnuke can harm your res/bloc before posting a news like this on your website cause this disapointed me alot .... My FC580 are the first thing i buy from EK and i dont want it to be the last thing i buy from EK ....

[Creekin]

No offence Penguin
i agree, thats the whole point of forums, discussion
Im not so stubborn as to stick to my beliefs regardless of new information,
i have taken on board comments by others and CHANGED my opinion.
my first post as u quoted said
"it doesn't make sense, and nothings been said yet to justify it.......
but, if he is losing money on warranty replacements of faulty res's, which he believes aren't his fault, and this is all he can do to deal with it,
isn't it better than jacking up the prices of everything else (for the rest of us) to cover his losses?"

i agree it sounded odd at the time but better than the alternative.

then AFTER Eddy had posted, it did make sense, and to me was justified.

then the whinning started!! thats was bizzare, the guy took the time to address the issue and gets replies like
"... im not accepting this ..."

i haven't dealt with all suppliers, true, but as a pc retailer, i do deal with most of them on a daily basis, and in my 20 years in the industry have never come across better personal service than what i have recieved from Eddy (And AC Shoggy )
edit: Good point Petra, i try to deal with them as both end user and reseller, as i am both. But I dont resell wc kit, so when dealing with EK (& AC) i was as an end user.

i spose my point, and the source of my frustration is that we XS'ers all know Eddy is a good guy who will do the right thing.
He is a guy who is so good at what he does, and so good to this community, that we gave him our hard earned $$s and helped him become a company,
he is one of us, not a corporation. The E in EK stands for Eddy, the K i assume is followed by a random collection of consonants to form his surname Why crucify him over such a minor issue?


point taken Penguin, and all good valid points
i'll shut up for a while, got too much time in front of my pc!

@ Telo, i didn't mean offence to you this is a discussion forum.
i only edited your post to insert my comment in the relevant place, anything i cut out was just as it was not relevant to my comment.
your point about Eddys handling of the situation is right and valid, so i didnt argue with it. Niche
(care to edit your sig? it's twice as long as any of your comments, nobody cares about your OS,odd or mon, its wearing out my mouse wheel... )

Only $500? must be all TT...

[BeavermanA]

So at what point is this PTNuke + acrylic failure supposed to manifest during usage? I'm using a EK cpu block, EK motherboard block, and EK reservoir all with acrylic and PTNuke in my loops and have been for close to a year.

Was planning on getting the EK 6970 block when it's released. Find it hard to believe if it started leaking from day 1 that PTNuke would have any factor in it, but my warranty would be void? Give me a break....

[Waterlogged]

So at what point is this PTNuke + acrylic failure supposed to manifest during usage? I'm using a EK cpu block, EK motherboard block, and EK reservoir all with acrylic and PTNuke in my loops and have been for close to a year.

Was planning on getting the EK 6970 block when it's released. Find it hard to believe if it started leaking from day 1 that PTNuke would have any factor in it, but my warranty would be void? Give me a break....

>9000

nope, calling them children

MOST of the replies i have read sound like spoiled 5 year olds not getting what they want..
not professional chemistry experts...

this is worse than the AT bashing..

EK is one of us!
they are on OUR SIDE!!!!

How do I wind up on that list?

You obviously missed the point of my post completely.

Eddy is always having problems yet he comes through in the end, we've all (to this point anyways) come to accept it and move on with little fuss. There are however times when some of the community has had to be. . .forceful to get him to go in the proper direction. There was the original multiport res that had zero anti vortex control, then the fix that didn't work so well in every case, then there was the D5 top that barely performed as well as the stock top did (only to release a V2 3 months later that did perform better), then the headache of trying to get him to include standoffs on GPU blocks because ppl were killing cards and then there is the spinner res that has issues bleeding unless full (which negates the cool "waterfall feature"). All those issues and we still buy Eddy's stuff (me included, though I wait for the fixed versions) with little question because we know he'll make it right in the end.

[Telo]

Only $500? must be all TT...

What is needed in a loop?

Old PC
Rad: PA 120.3 - Got it for $100
Pump: Dual Swiftech MCP350 - Got it on sale from Newegg for $75 [pair]
Dual pump block: EK dual MCP350 - $35
CPU: D_Tek Fuzion v1 - $60
NB: Built in block from BlackOps - Free since I already had paid for the board
VGA: EK FC4870 - Got it on sale from Microcenter $85
Res: Aluminim XSPC 500ml - $80
Fittings: Many brands used [Koolance shutoffs, D-Tek stubbies, XSPC, others as well] ~$100 [Koolance shutoffs are like $12 a pop]
Clamps: Zip ties from Home Depot - $3 for 20
Fans: Kamikaze 120mm - $16 x3
Tubing: Tygon 3/8ID 5/8OD - $2 x10

You add all that up and it is about US$525. Previous setup had dual HD2900XTs and the blocks for those cost me like $60 each [CoolerMaster Glacier600], so that setup would be like $20 more.

[Creekin]

My apologies WL, I quickly scanned back through the thread for examples of childish comments to support my statement,
you are normally good for a few childish comments and so may have grabbed yours out of habit without properly reading it.

Mea Culpa
relevant post edited

I was only joking Telo, peace bro
nice rig except the zip ties!

[Sparky]

[...] There was the original multiport res that had zero anti vortex control, then the fix that didn't work so well in every case [...]

I have the original res. And have some stupid high flow rate (almost 2 GPM according to Martin's spreadsheet). The only vortex control it needs is to be full. That's it. A little bit of airspace at the top allows for a visible swirling for looks if desired.

I personally think the vortex issue was overblown. Sure, you had problems if you didn't fill the res up all the way, but just simply fill it and you're fine. Been running it for over 3 years without issue.

Just my 2 cents.

[penguins]

without properly reading it.

; )

[Johnny87au]

What about PrimoChill Liquid Utopia Protective Fluid? Is it also dangerous?

I rate it, been through 2 syringes, works great mate!

[gmat]

I rate it, been through 2 syringes, works great mate!

Given the specs, i can bet it's based on a derivative of Glycol (which is an alcohol). The only off-the-shelf product that doesnt contain alcohol apart from PT Nuke is the Thermochill EC6 i think (and pure distilled water sold as a coolant of course). I suspect a LOT of users are using some form of pre-mix (which are all quite bad) or the kind of additive mentioned above.

[Confuzzled]

Petra pointed out my mistake, the o ring issue is unrelated

I just find the attitude of some of you hillarious!! @YOU!

How many of you have actually had to RMA a res due to degrdation from chemical exposure?
How many of you have dealt direct with Eddy?
And had all your answers and wishes granted by the magical Slovenian elves!

Out of those how many dont trust Eddy to do THE RIGHT THING™ ??
on a case by case basis.....

id say the answer to that is a big fat ZERO!

Then you really don't know much about this forum.

[crash5s]

>9000



How do I wind up on that list?

You obviously missed the point of my post completely.

Eddy is always having problems yet he comes through in the end, we've all (to this point anyways) come to accept it and move on with little fuss. There are however times when some of the community has had to be. . .forceful to get him to go in the proper direction. There was the original multiport res that had zero anti vortex control, then the fix that didn't work so well in every case, then there was the D5 top that barely performed as well as the stock top did (only to release a V2 3 months later that did perform better), then the headache of trying to get him to include standoffs on GPU blocks because ppl were killing cards and then there is the spinner res that has issues bleeding unless full (which negates the cool "waterfall feature"). All those issues and we still buy Eddy's stuff (me included, though I wait for the fixed versions) with little question because we know he'll make it right in the end.

Other companies have had issues as well though. I can't think of a single WC company that hasn't had some sort of up at some point in time.

Some companies don't up, but never crank out anything actually worth buying for any reason other than bling.

EK, for all it's issues, continues to make things worth buying.

[Boulard83]

Given the specs, i can bet it's based on a derivative of Glycol (which is an alcohol). The only off-the-shelf product that doesnt contain alcohol apart from PT Nuke is the Thermochill EC6 i think (and pure distilled water sold as a coolant of course). I suspect a LOT of users are using some form of pre-mix (which are all quite bad) or the kind of additive mentioned above.

I think your right ... The WCing hobby have become a "mainstream" thing and a good number of newb start to WC and they use 10x defferent product to protect there loop thinking its going to be better this way ...

Anything that contain alcohol can be bad for acrylic.

[NaeKuh]

You're making a mountain out of a mole-hill.
Eddie may not be willing to buy some for potentially destructive testing. Who knows.

Da hell... so you support WRONG INFO?

dont think so.

There is NOTHING WRONG WITH PT NUKE.
And he was saying something is wrong.

THAT is MISINFORMATION bud..
and in our section, that is entitled to a "jump me please" ticket.

nope, calling them children

MOST of the replies i have read sound like spoiled 5 year olds not getting what they want..

Da hell..

You do know who you are bashing against...

You know in most LC forums, with a few exception, martin's words has more weight then vendors even.


Dude.. this thread is going down a deep and dark tunnel, and i dont want to be on it, when it comes out the other side.

It reminds me of when i was pro active way more then i am now.
Mis information is worse then NO INFORMATION.

Any Vendor / person / site who promotes mis informtion will be shot, hang'd and left for the vultures to pick at.
Thats how XS has always been.
And thats how XS will always be.

We here are after accuracy, and truth.

Not a candy coated, pretentious statement, which people have to accept because its from a vendor direct.

i haven't dealt with all suppliers, true, but as a pc retailer, i do deal with most of them on a daily basis, and in my 20 years in the industry have never come across better personal service than what i have recieved from Eddy (And AC Shoggy )

Oh man..
dont get me started.

Creekin your missing the point..
Vendor trying to pass WRONG INFORMATION
Vendor then saying its CORRECT INFORMATION
Vendor not suppling proof in WRONG information
Vendor gets Spanked... simple as that.

And if u think im scared of bashing heads with vendor... ask Eddy who forced him to bring out standoff's.

Eddy + Gabe + Tim perfectly know.. if something is completely wrong.... i will toot my silver antimicrobe XS horn!
B4 we get infected with an onslaught of Bull Dookie.

[LowRun]

you know i'm not out to bash you bro. which is why i took my time on this one. But your posts are sometimes.. worse than those you mock.

Thank you for taking the time to point the nonsense in a civil manner. Incredible how some people will lecture everyone about everything in a two months time.

[Schlingel]

?? If he got enough data supporting his thesis whats the problem. if u find out that in 80% (for exapmple - even 50% i would call already too much) of cases product A is causing a problem and product B, C etc not its absolutly okay to put a warning out and also make a RMA statement. it does not matter if the product itself can cause the problem directly. only the fact, that errors occure is validated. the rootcause cannot be located (maybe the supplier is using ruber with remaing oil, the maching guy is wearing red dirty underpants, xyz or whatever). so put out this statement and from that fixed date on RMA for later purchased products will be handled in a different way.

and btw: this complete discussion is about a WC additive?? go to your local hardware store and get some G48 e.g. and be happy. it has been working without any problems for years in combination with any kind of plexi (EK, Roem or DD) in my rigs! costs: i would call it "more or less" for free

@€dit: maybe also difference in "thinking". i would say in europe product A = dismissed is this present situation


i am getting reminded on this "water-wetter" product in germany. same story. you may have a guess what happened

Da hell... so you support WRONG INFO?

dont think so.

There is NOTHING WRONG WITH PT NUKE.
And he was saying something is wrong.

THAT is MISINFORMATION bud..
and in our section, that is entitled to a "jump me please" ticket.



Da hell..

You do know who you are bashing against...

You know in most LC forums, with a few exception, martin's words has more weight then vendors even.


Dude.. this thread is going down a deep and dark tunnel, and i dont want to be on it, when it comes out the other side.

It reminds me of when i was pro active way more then i am now.
Mis information is worse then NO INFORMATION.

Any Vendor / person / site who promotes mis informtion will be shot, hang'd and left for the vultures to pick at.
Thats how XS has always been.
And thats how XS will always be.

We here are after accuracy, and truth.

Not a candy coated, pretentious statement, which people have to accept because its from a vendor direct.



Oh man..
dont get me started.

Creekin your missing the point..
Vendor trying to pass WRONG INFORMATION
Vendor then saying its CORRECT INFORMATION
Vendor not suppling proof in WRONG information
Vendor gets Spanked... simple as that.

And if u think im scared of bashing heads with vendor... ask Eddy who forced him to bring out standoff's.

Eddy + Gabe + Tim perfectly know.. if something is completely wrong.... i will toot my silver antimicrobe XS horn!
B4 we get infected with an onslaught of Bull Dookie.

[Boulard83]

Creekin your missing the point..
Vendor trying to pass WRONG INFORMATION
Vendor then saying its CORRECT INFORMATION
Vendor not suppling proof in WRONG information
Vendor gets Spanked... simple as that.

So real ! ! !

If we let this happen, all the peoples that dont know anything about PTnuke ( or similar ) are going to trust EK(or other companies) and will think that they are bad product that can harm there stuff.

We want real fact, real proof if this is the case. . .

[NaeKuh]

?? If he got enough data supporting his thesis whats the problem. if u find out that in 80% (for exapmple - even 50% i would call already too much)

no because of the bull dookie factor.

Even if it hit alcohol, they still say it didnt, and use PT nuke as the scape goat.

This is what were trying to tell Eddy, he's getting scaped goatted by PT NUKE when there is no possibility for it to cause what he is describing.

Q: "Did you use additives in your loop?"
A: "What's an additive?"

Problem solved

^ ie... like this...
Then all they say is nope, just had PT Nuke... never mention they wiped the acrylic with alcohol, nor did they mention they used some harsh chemcial like concentrated bleach.
Nor do they mention they overtightened the screws... not do they mention they put a hammer to the acrylic.

They say nope.. they used straight distilled and water with pt nuke..

So eddy is going ok, everyone is telling us BS, so we will also say BS.



Dayam people... im not mad at the vendor, im mad at him following the idiocy of the people filing the RMA and actually believing them.

Because someone says pigs can fly, does not mean after 50 people, you can also say pigs fly.
You say pigs can fly only when u actually see a pig fly.

Because u never know the 50 people who said pigs can fly, said it to get FREE STUFF.

[Boulard83]

Because u never know the 50 people who said pigs can fly, said it to get FREE STUFF.

Amen !

[rge]

and btw: this complete discussion is about a WC additive?? go to your local hardware store and get some G48 e.g. and be happy. it has been working without any problems for years in combination with any kind of plexi (EK, Roem or DD) in my rigs! costs: i would call it "more or less" for free

If everyone used G48, then all the broken reservoirs that came back to EK would have been exposed to G48.

So you see G48 would harm acrylic, using your own logic.

So why are you promoting a product that harms acrylic?

[Waterlogged]

EK, for all it's issues, continues to make things worth buying.

...and this was exactly my point.

The thing is though, it's almost always something with EK. . .most of the other vendors put a bit more effort into the product before pushing it out the door, EK seems more interested in being first to market than getting it right the first time, and we've scolded them before about it too. I'm tired of having to wait for Rev.2 or 3 product from them all the time.

[[XC] Oj101]

"Warranty claims will only be valid for customers using EK Biocide, all other biocidal products will void your EK warranty" would be perfectly fine--it's a neutral and sensible approach to addressing internal concerns over the products of other manufacturers. Singling out and, essentially, attacking the products of others for the benefit of your own bottom line is not a neutral, sensible, or well received approach (unless, of course, it can be accompanied with solid, scientific, independent verification through broad testing of the claims being made... but, even in such a case, it's usually an approach best not taken).

In South Africa, unless you're saying something GOOD about another company it goes against our competitive advertising laws.

One pretty neat example was about 15 years ago there was an advert for Mercedes-Benz where one of their cars drives off of Chapman's Peak (a very windy road cut into the bottom of a mountain with the sea below you) and the driver survives, to which BMW replied by showing how their car wouldn't leave the road with the punch-line "Beating the Benz" (a play on bends)

[Schlingel]

lets spin it the other way: in your oppinion everyone if filling BS in the RMA fields... everyone has no interest to find out the real problem... eddy is unable to judge if the plexi is damaged by agressive additive or agressive coolant... eddy just jugdges after little cases and little feedback...

quiet amazing for you to call this decision BS without knowing any facts, data and pictures. hell yeah you probably know also every RMA case by yourself and can call a companys decisions BS. well okay let me ask you a question: what about the lottery tomorrow? I also want to win

no because of the bull dookie factor.

Even if it hit alcohol, they still say it didnt, and use PT nuke as the scape goat.

This is what were trying to tell Eddy, he's getting scaped goatted by PT NUKE when there is no possibility for it to cause what he is describing.



^ ie... like this...
Then all they say is nope, just had PT Nuke... never mention they wiped the acrylic with alcohol, nor did they mention they used some harsh chemcial like concentrated bleach.
Nor do they mention they overtightened the screws... not do they mention they put a hammer to the acrylic.

They say nope.. they used straight distilled and water with pt nuke..

So eddy is going ok, everyone is telling us BS, so we will also say BS.



Dayam people... im not mad at the vendor, im mad at him following the idiocy of the people filing the RMA and actually believing them.

Because someone says pigs can fly, does not mean after 50 people, you can also say pigs fly.
You say pigs can fly only when u actually see a pig fly.

Because u never know the 50 people who said pigs can fly, said it to get FREE STUFF.

[Petra]

In South Africa, unless you're saying something GOOD about another company it goes against our competitive advertising laws.

That's kinda inline with my point in the text you quoted--there are ways of instating a warranty policy similar to what EK was implementing without actually saying anything about another company's product(s).