Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Some phase change questions

  1. #1
    Xtreme Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    134

    Some phase change questions

    Hi guys,

    I've been a water cooler for quite some time. I'm not a great overclocker, but enjoy tweaking my system regularly. I bought a cryoz a year ago to experiment with, but I've actually found only a little time to play with it, so not sure how well phase change works for me. So far, only usage has been on the test bench. I'm looking into moving to a more serious phase change cooling solution, but have some questions.

    I'm currently on a core i7 920, but hope to move to a 6 core processor this year. I'm interested in how practical it would be to have phase on a system that is a main system, not just a benching system. I know the cryoz won't keep up with quad cores. I was reading the other thread someone posted about upgrading these. Is it usually worth upgrading the cryoz, or better to just replace. One of the things I really like about the cryoz is that the case isnt' huge.

    Whether upgrading the cryoz, or building a new unit, how many watts are being pulled from the wall on a system tuned for around 250-300w? I think that would be a target range. My system won't be 24/7 since I'm out of town a few days every week, but will run most of the time I'm home. Do most of you guys use phase on your main system, or just on the bench? Is it pretty trouble free when set up properly? How much of a gain is typical going to a good phase unit from watercooling?

    I've also thought about building my own, but it seems that would be best with some assistance. I don't know anyone it refrigeration who is local. I've read some of the guides, but most are at least 4 years old, though I doubt too much has changed. It seem like it might be tough to tune correctly without help while learning.

    Are any of you going to the xs party? Im pretty sure I'll be there. Maybe I pick some brains while there.

    Thanks guys.

  2. #2
    Admin
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    North Texas
    Posts
    5,770
    In my opinion there's no need for phase unless it's for benching. I'm not a gamer so I don't know how much phase would benefit a gamer. I guess if you gamed alot and phase helped out with gaming then that would be a good reason to have phase on a main PC. Sorry for the squirley answer
    UNDER THE ICE .com
    Phase Change Cooling

    is the remedy

  3. #3
    Xtreme Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Buenos Aires, Argentina
    Posts
    264
    You can check one of the units i made here.

    http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=263312

    That unit holds a 980x at pretty decent temps, while making almost no noise, and measured it at 100w under load. The unit was intended for 24/7 use, so low noise and low power where the objectives. Of course its a price you pay with performance, since it struggles to stay under 10c under load. I will re do the cap lenght to try and stay under 0c under load, but you lose temps on idle.

    Now im building a new unit, that goes even further, running with a 1/10hp compressor. The idea is to aim for 20c under load (in summer of course :P) , maybe its not THAT cool, but it will beat even the best watercooler by far. Also i want to make a really compact unit, im going for a volume of under 20cm3.

    Regarding being trouble free, well if the unit is well setup yes. But the trickiest part for 24/7 is not the unit itself, but the enclosure and insulation. If you get that right, then its trouble free.

    Regards.

  4. #4
    Xtreme Addict
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Closer than you think.
    Posts
    2,066
    Hey Coyote

    I like the small units too, the big quad compressor box is using the smaller compressor, and the original unit was a 1/8 or 1/10hp compressor, which ran at 260w around 0c evap.

    So the small and very quiet compressors do the job, built right, and are very small and almost silent.

    The larger units, rotaries and such, really are more about the benching, but it's good to see someone else looking at the power saving type of 24/7 unit.

    Much colder than water but warm enough to be less risky for condensation, and the higher clocks to go with it

    Getting into refrigeration to tune your unit does end up costing a fair bit, mainly for the tools, but after a bit of practice I think you'll find it rewarding if you choose to do it.

    The cryo units are a decent base to work with, but there's a couple mods you'd need for 6 core or it just won't keep up.

    I think from the results I'm finding that they can end up in the 250 to 350w range with oc and vcore increase, all 6 cores running. That's not impossible on a Cryo, but I'd look at the captube and condensor being modded along with a gas job.

    They're meant to be quiet, and wouldn't been so drastically cold that condensation would be a serious issue if it's insulated well.

    Main concern I see isn't the load but the idle time. 24/7 units can sit at low idle regularly, and having a cooler on a cpu at idle can eventually cool the motherboard outside of the insulated area. A smaller, less extreme unit wouldn't be prone to that so much.

    the ones that Sdumper's been working with, the CoolerExpress ones, have backplate heaters. That's something that can help a lot on a 24/7 setup where it's going to sit idling a lot.

    But I have to disagree, I think phase is great for 24/7 if you know what you want, and end up with a unit that's ideal for the 24/7 user



    Gray
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  5. #5
    Xtreme Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    134
    Hey guys, sorry for a necro post, but the thread is still pretty relevant for me. I decided I didn't have the money to do this build after this post, but am in a better financial situation now. I've decided I'd like to do a project after all. I would first like to build a fairly simple direct die unit on a 3930k, then reuse the build for a water chiller build. The reason I'm interested in a water chiller is to cool the video card(s) also. I am currently on a 6950, but am planning a move to a 7970 or 680. By the time I convert to a chiller, I would anticipate sli, or maybe a next gen card (or two). So that is the long term plan. My purpose for the project is I always love learning something new, and phase change is just too cool not to do.

    As I said in the original post, I do have a cryo z unit, but I never really used it, except for a little bench testing to learn about phase change usage. The unit no longer starts, it just beeps 3 times when I try to start it. So I'm not using it.

    I have many questions about a first build. One of the first is, which compressor to get. While I'm not very noise sensitive, but I'd hope to keep it as quite as practical while still being powerful enough. I would also like to stick to 134a, so I don't need a license, and 115v so I can plug into a regular wall outlet. I'm not sure how much wattage an overclocked 3930k puts out, but I want some headroom in the system if I add parts to cool. How is the horsepower rating related to a pc cooling unit? Any links to suggested compressors?

    The next is a condenser. How do you know what size to buy? I see one at under-the-ice.com that would likely work. Size isn't a huge concern, since I plan to build an enclosure around the unit.

    What are the required electrical components if you buy a bare compressor? I'm just thinking of a simple on/off switch on an initial build. Any help there is appreciated!

    I do have a friend that is a technician for hvac, but lives in Las Vegas, and is used to much larger units. So he can explain some stuff to me, but otherwise, I don't know anyone who works with this stuff. And I'm not real good with search, so links are always appreciated!

    What tools are needed to work with this kind of stuff? I'm planning to buy a pipe bender, flare kit, torch, solder, and gas filling kit. What else do I need?

    Thanks for the help! Can't wait to join the ranks of the phase builders!

  6. #6
    Xtreme Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    134
    Well, got one of my first tools specific to this project. Just picked up a used vacuum pump. A buddy is sending me some 15% silver solder. A pound of that stuff is super expensive! Now, working on a manifold for charging...

  7. #7
    Xtreme Mentor
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    3,286
    Quote Originally Posted by DashTrash View Post
    Well, got one of my first tools specific to this project. Just picked up a used vacuum pump. A buddy is sending me some 15% silver solder. A pound of that stuff is super expensive! Now, working on a manifold for charging...
    Let me know what type of equipment your still missing. I have a bunch of stuff I no longer use.
    Never empower an idiot with a response....

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29

    Seller/Buyer Reputation:
    Heatware: http://www.heatware.com/eval.php?id=50905
    Ebay: {Family Account} Kasyg3 http://myworld.ebay.com/kasyg3/
    Ebay: {My personal Account} Sdumper http://myworld.ebay.com/sdumper/
    iTrader: http://www.blazingpc.com/forum/itrader.php?u=28

  8. #8
    Xtreme Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    163
    Scott, Do you have any r1150 you could ship to me? I still havent been able to find any locally to fix the cascade
    AMD Phenom II 1090T,
    4gb mushkin ridgebacks pc1600ddr3, 65gb Patriot ssd, saphire 5970 asus 5870 trifire, 1600W psu. windows 7 professional 64 bit, phase cooling

  9. #9
    -150c Club Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Northeast, USA
    Posts
    10,823
    You can't ship R1150 easily, its flammable and pressurized gases aren't the best way to do things.


    If you have a cooling question or concern feel free to contact me.

  10. #10
    Xtreme Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    163
    That's what I was afraid of. Guess I may have to part it out, bummer I hardly got to use it
    AMD Phenom II 1090T,
    4gb mushkin ridgebacks pc1600ddr3, 65gb Patriot ssd, saphire 5970 asus 5870 trifire, 1600W psu. windows 7 professional 64 bit, phase cooling

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •