Aquatuning/Phobya Fail

[oliverw92]

As i have understood it Antony @ Bit-tech has been in direct contact with you.

If not im sorry, but for your information your case has now been removed new video up HERE

This has now been resolved please close.

Thankyou for removing my work, I appreciate it.




Mayhem, I do not mind my images being used in videos under normal circumstances, however if i do not agree with the situation they are being used in I DO mind. Imagine if your images of your dye were being used to promote someone elses dye, for example. I doubt you would let that happen.

[mlwood37]

Thankyou for removing my work, I appreciate it.




Mayhem, I do not mind my images being used in videos under normal circumstances, however if i do not agree with the situation they are being used in I DO mind. Imagine if your images of your dye were being used to promote someone elses dye, for example. I doubt you would let that happen.

didnt think of it that way. but your correct. I dont mean to offend any one btw just trying to be objective .

[Monkey Puzzled]

Hi Guys,

Let me step in to clear this one up for you before the trolls get let out again

Ok so the competition as it has been stated many times we are not trying to get something designed for free, we already have a range of cases on the way that have been designed in house.

The idea of the comp is to finally give the community a say so the community designs it, the community votes for it and we build it now of course we will make a profit on the units sold by this is to cover setup, production, staffing.

If you rather we can let you design the case and pay for all the tooling etc - bet you not a fan of that idea.

So the winner gets a case, they get to name the case and they get watercooling in the case. Based on the small qtys that will be made because of the very niche designs the prizes given will far out way any royalties of sales.

We dont have to do this for you but as people are constantly crying out for something like this to happen we thought we would give it a go.

So if you want to have a go like many others have and are enjoying please enter. If you DO NOT agree with the comp JUST DONT ENTER as after all you would not want to fuel the mythical watercooling devils that you have heard all those naughty stories about of the everso factual place called the interwebs

As for Oliver as you have had it explained to you the video was created by Bit-tech so it is nothing to do with Aquatuninging or Bit-tech and as you also know you gave Bit-tech free reign with your work by posting on the forum. You have been contacted by Bit-tech take it up with them.

For any more serious questions about the contests I will be here to help

Based on your company's trademark smash and grab shenanigans, it's not surprising people are wary that you're trying to use the modding community to design you a case. Cases designed to hold watercooling internally may be niche, but companies such as corsair, mountain mods and danger den are no doubt making profit on their water-cooling cases, as I'm sure you will.

Did Corsair design the 800 case thinking the profits they made from it would be less than the cost of making a case and putting some watercooling in it? Really?! Out of interest, does your new range of cases that you mention include cases that also fit the water-cooling design brief you've set out for this competition?

Call me cynical, but the fact you've stipulated a design brief and insisted "the case must be easy to produce" doesn't sound like you're trying to help a modders design come to be, it sounds like you are looking for a cheap means of getting a design to mass produce.

And as for saying:

If you rather we can let you design the case and pay for all the tooling etc - bet you not a fan of that idea.

....The competition is in the modding section of bit-tech. I'm sure most people reading that section of the forum are actually pretty big fans of that idea.

It doesn't sound very much like you're doing this out of the kindness of your hearts to help the modding community when you then also tell Oliver that bit-tech has the rights to any images he's posted there, and so you're free to use them. No apology, no "sorry, someone should have asked you, can we use your images?"? Not great PR...

Under UK law as I understand it, the copyright images automatically reside with the creator of the featured piece, and whoever took the photos, if taking the photos itself involves some creative/artistic/technical merit. Bit-tech doesn't have a terms and conditions page stipulating that they own the copyright to any content posted as certain sites like facebook do.

So no, you (and Bit-tech, your hosting partner in this competition) don't have the right to use his images as far as I can see.

[Utnorris]

Wow! Really? This is what this has come too. Look I vote with my wallet, it's called capitalism. I have been dissed by several popular manufactures including Asus and Corsair and if I don't like a company I just don't buy from them. This forum is supposed to be about water cooling, how it is done, innovative design, etc., not politics or personal grudges. Personally, I think we need to focus on the hobby and not the drama surrounding it.

[Movieman]

Wow! Really? This is what this has come too. Look I vote with my wallet, it's called capitalism. I have been dissed by several popular manufactures including Asus and Corsair and if I don't like a company I just don't buy from them. This forum is supposed to be about water cooling, how it is done, innovative design, etc., not politics or personal grudges. Personally, I think we need to focus on the hobby and not the drama surrounding it.

I agree but sometimes very difficult to ignore these things especially if your on staff.

[Utnorris]

@Movieman. Don't you think that stuff should be kept to pm's?

[Movieman]

@Movieman. Don't you think that stuff should be kept to pm's?

It's a public thread.Sort of tough for me to respond just by PM..

[millertime359]

Wow! Really? This is what this has come too. Look I vote with my wallet, it's called capitalism. I have been dissed by several popular manufactures including Asus and Corsair and if I don't like a company I just don't buy from them. This forum is supposed to be about water cooling, how it is done, innovative design, etc., not politics or personal grudges. Personally, I think we need to focus on the hobby and not the drama surrounding it.

I do agree that this drama sucks, but it does have something to do with the hobby and if a company is doing something wrong, wouldn't you like to know about it so you can make a personal decision on if you should support the company or not?

[bentleya]

Just think about it for a Minute, Aqua Tuning want you to design them a case instead of paying designing to do they job to save money, More money they save the more they make.

"Hey Nathanael , I have a great idea: As you know, most people in our market are really easy to fool (*giggle*) as you know from many of our 'projects' in the past ... I have a new idea which is perfect: You know that we have no creative people in our company and it would be too expensive to hire a designer, but we need a computer-case for our Fobia-china-lineup! Let's go there and give them a couple of bucks and let THEM make us the case."

"Hey Andreas, I doubt that people will do it for cheap."

"Hey Nathanael, believe me, there are so many blind and stupid people out there, we will get massive numbers of different ideas ... muahaha ... for free!"

"Ah - now I got it Andreas, so we will not only get one design ... we will get MANY. Superb idea, because these fools don't even understand that every design is valuable for us."

"Yeah Nathanael, and do you know what's the best? We offer the winner a free case ... which costs us 0.00€, because it's a side-product of the prototyping process from the manufacture anyway! ... And the second and third place will get the chance to buy from us for 100 and 200 bucks."

"Muahaha Andreas, you're so clever, because we only have cost of 10% of these sums for our products".

"Yes Nathanael - we have so many dumb people out there, let's get all they have: Their money, their creativity and everything they have not registered!"

[kinghong1970]

dunno guys... ok let's address the issue for what it is and try to keep an open mind.

many companies have had consumer design contests and this is a very interesting, if not great marketing tool... and so as for this contest, call it as you see it... an interesting marketing tool by AT to involve their consumers participation and perhaps even increase brand recognition + loyalty... kata bag manufacturers have also done this and i'm sure there are others as well.

so as for the contest, fine... i don't think it's actually a means of a company trying to get the design work for free...
correct me if i'm wrong but it does seem that this is a community based competition...

if any company's sole objective is to get cheap designs, heck, mick's detailed log is enough for anyone to knock it off and produce it cheaper and not only him but there are many others who've dabbled into custom design and building of cases that are posted in these "public" forums... and copyright protection are just that, words... they carry very little weight in actual and legal protection... unless someone can afford a heavy legal retainer for representation.

now AT does not get off that easily too...
seems your reputation has been tainted by the XS community and perhaps you should address this issue before venturing off into other projects... because as far as i see it, any and all marketing attempts will be tainted by your actions that has caused many wc'ing members to be upset.

[Sadasius]

Wow! Really? This is what this has come too. Look I vote with my wallet, it's called capitalism. I have been dissed by several popular manufactures including Asus and Corsair and if I don't like a company I just don't buy from them. This forum is supposed to be about water cooling, how it is done, innovative design, etc., not politics or personal grudges. Personally, I think we need to focus on the hobby and not the drama surrounding it.

Not usually the dramatic type and I am pretty good at keeping a level head but these guys directly affected our community. They are the only European retailers who can sell all the stuff they Tradmarked cornering the market and control on pricing. Let's say if your Koolance and you wish to channel your products into the European market. Well you will have Aquatuning to contend with as they own your Trademark in Europe. Nobody can sell your stuff without them suing you for Trademark infringement. So that market is screwed but open now for Aquatuning's blocks, rads etc because they have effectively blocked you out, are able to sell their stuff way cheaper making them look like the obvious choice in Europe. So now this cuts into R&D, contests, sponsorships etc which directly affects us here.

dunno guys... ok let's address the issue for what it is and try to keep an open mind.

many companies have had consumer design contests and this is a very interesting, if not great marketing tool... and so as for this contest, call it as you see it... an interesting marketing tool by AT to involve their consumers participation and perhaps even increase brand recognition + loyalty... kata bag manufacturers have also done this and i'm sure there are others as well.

so as for the contest, fine... i don't think it's actually a means of a company trying to get the design work for free...
correct me if i'm wrong but it does seem that this is a community based competition...

if any company's sole objective is to get cheap designs, heck, mick's detailed log is enough for anyone to knock it off and produce it cheaper and not only him but there are many others who've dabbled into custom design and building of cases that are posted in these "public" forums... and copyright protection are just that, words... they carry very little weight in actual and legal protection... unless someone can afford a heavy legal retainer for representation.

now AT does not get off that easily too...
seems your reputation has been tainted by the XS community and perhaps you should address this issue before venturing off into other projects... because as far as i see it, any and all marketing attempts will be tainted by your actions that has caused many wc'ing members to be upset.

This cuts deeper then them trying to steal designs which as you pointed out they could have simply done awhile ago from the available info in the public thread but I am sure the one reason why they have not is because of a threat if someone wanted to sue them. But if they can them freely then it's a different story. It's fair game! Just letting people know what type of people are behind this competition which I think should not be allowed here at all.

[dualbrain]

100% agree to the contents of your posting Sadasius. Logical and clear.

[kinghong1970]

Not usually the dramatic type and I am pretty good at keeping a level head but these guys directly affected our community. They are the only European retailers who can sell all the stuff they Tradmarked cornering the market and control on pricing. Let's say if your Koolance and you wish to channel your products into the European market. Well you will have Aquatuning to contend with as they own your Trademark in Europe. Nobody can sell your stuff without them suing you for Trademark infringement. So that market is screwed but open now for Aquatuning's blocks, rads etc because they have effectively blocked you out, are able to sell their stuff way cheaper making them look like the obvious choice in Europe. So now this cuts into R&D, contests, sponsorships etc which directly affects us here.

This cuts deeper then them trying to steal designs which as you pointed out they could have simply done awhile ago from the available info in the public thread but I am sure the one reason why they have not is because of a threat if someone wanted to sue them. But if they can them freely then it's a different story. It's fair game! Just letting people know what type of people are behind this competition which I think should not be allowed here at all.

noted and well said but... speaking of their actions regarding the trademark... well founded and as a community, we have the right to be upset... our argument has weight...

making claims of this being their plot to steal designs... we will just seem like a bunch of upset folks making issues without any basis on facts.

i agree, the incidents regarding the trademark is very shady and poor actions on their behalf... and yes, unless this is resolved, my money will have to go elsewhere...

i guess what i'm getting at is... fight the right fight...

[millertime359]

noted and well said but... speaking of their actions regarding the trademark... well founded and as a community, we have the right to be upset... our argument has weight...

making claims of this being their plot to steal designs... we will just seem like a bunch of upset folks making issues without any basis on facts.

i agree, the incidents regarding the trademark is very shady and poor actions on their behalf... and yes, unless this is resolved, my money will have to go elsewhere...

i guess what i'm getting at is... fight the right fight...

Good point.

Though, seeing they had no issues doing a trademark grab, who is to say they have no issue "stealing" designs?

I think it is more a trust issue in the company. They have already shown that they can't be trusted, so how can we as a community trust this contest?

[shazza]

I am in the midst of driving across country, so not really able to catch/read every post in detail, and haven't had a chance to read the contest rules at bit-tech.

All I'd ask is that we don't stoop to calling each other names - doesn't mean we can't legitimately say that we don't like a company's practices - let's just not make it personal (and that goes two ways). Let's also not bring any other websites into it - no need to muddy the waters.

What I am confused about ...

1) Did Mick personally enter his design into the contest? If so, then I guess what happens is up to him. If not, then hopefully his design will not be used by anyone who doesn't have the rights to it (morally, ethically, or legally).

2) Has all the trademark grabbing issue stuff been resolved with Aqua Tuning? I dunno - never got a real answer to that one.

edit ... added after reading prava's post. I think the trademark issue is serious enough that it's not one people are going to ignore. Doesn't mean it should be allowed to have multiple threads - but it is going to come up in discussion when AT is the subject. However, I do agree that it is everyone's individual choice as to whether they care about it, or whether they choose to support the company - or any company.

As for the actual design contest - had a chance to visit the bit-tech thread. Putting the issue with Mick's case aside (as I'm assuming that he is dealing with that) - I don't see what all the hoopla is about. If people want to enter the contest, so be it. There seems to be some interest in it.

It's quite common in many contests that you give up your rights when you enter - for example, many photographic contests are run to get images that the contest holders can then use as their own. The key is to read the terms & conditions carefully before entering any contest where you give your intellectual property.

[prava]

Guys, c'mon, hold your horses. I consider totally logic and honest to add info about what AT did with many trademarks not long ago...but to do that one post is more than enough. There is no need to troll the whole page when what needed to be said it's already there. Just because you repeat it over and over won't make your message more clear. Besides, I think everybody should have the right to decide what is morally acceptable and what is not, and thus we shall stop trolling and let the community decide.

And yes, this certainly hurts XS image because when the community allows a group of people to bash something all day long (be it a company, user...whatever) not only you are changing the topic on the discussion that was ongoing but you are creating unfriendliness among users and will let to flame wars (because somebody will say that he bought an AT product that was great and the other parts will answer...and so on), and that is never good in any forum nor community.

What is the solution? The solution to this problem is really simple. When somebody posts something you do not like:
a) You choose not to post.
b) You choose to post being clear why you do not agree/like and only answer if expected to do so.

In the case of AT, we don't need 10 users saying the same stuff, just one of'em is more than enough to educate people, and if you are ready to take it as long as it gets then create a sticker in the WC section (well-written, obviously) so that everybody is aware of the situation (or, as some suggested, ban AT from this page...but that would be a mess because probably not everybody shares the same vision and banning stuff is NEVER the solution. Educating IS).


On this contest by AT I have to say a few things:
It is clear why they do this. Both PR & free designs are the things they will get. BUT they offer a chance that normally nobody ever gets: the chance to get the case you spent countless hours in, and lets be honest here, how many people will be able to see their design as real without a contest like this? 0.1%? Maybe even less? This is a opportunity that has its pros and cons, and as it is we should encourage people to decide on their own, and that is all. Some people will never ever ever ever allow AT to have any of their designs...and some other people will don't care about who AT is or what did they do as long as they get their case.

All in all welcome to the real world...

[Vapor]

I'm glad oliverw92's work was pulled from use without permission. I don't know the legalities behind its use (is there a stated Terms of Use at the forums or from the initial source of content?), but I'm glad that someone whose work was being used in a way they didn't want had it pulled

I agree with prava and mlwood37 that this looks bad on XS. Makes us look like a forum full of malcontents when that's not the case.

I agree with Shazza that we don't need multiple threads to discuss the trademark issue. So with that said, this thread has run its course.