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Thread: FM announces changes to ORB

  1. #51
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    Maybe this BAD idea is just a marketing move?

    I think there is a reason why nearly all older FM benches are still very popular... even with the actual highend hardware. The community like to compare old systems to the newer ones and want to push it to new limits. Or do you think we had ever seen 140k in 01, or 210k in 03 when you dropped 01/03 after 5 years... I dont think so.

    The idea to gave the old ORB information to some people who keep the old ORB coby running sounds great. I am also willing to pay for this... important are well verified scores, just a screenshot is not enough.

    The first bad idea was to limit the Vantage to just one run... so the OC community rebelled and you guys hopefully learned from this mistake. And now it seems there will be a free version of 2011 with no limited runs for a result... thats great. So please do not make a worse mistake to steal a part of the soul of the OC community, a part of the OC history. Be proud that the ORB is so a important thing for us overclockers.... but just be proud and dont give up your own great work!

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    Last edited by loopy83; 10-21-2010 at 11:19 PM.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by youngpro View Post
    3dmark 01

    i paid for 01,03,05 and the only reason i did was so i could upload my result to orb? so I expect futuremark will offer a full refund to anyone that has purchase 01,03,05 ?
    Yeah that's the point - you can bench and get your scores without actually buying something of FM. But as soon as you need extended ORB verification and/or offline scores (for 06) that's what you pay for.
    They basically take away what we've paid for.
    I am in for a boycott if FM does stop support for old benchmarks. If they do it with the classics, it's just a question of time they stop supporting 06 / vantage...I am not going to pay for this!
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  3. #53
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    As boring as it might seem guys, please DO register on yougamers ( FutureMark's ) forums and post your thoughts over there in this thread which is actually monitored by more FM staff than just Jarnis
    Coding 24/7... Limited forums/PMs time.

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  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by K404 View Post
    What is HWBots stance on using cracked copies of 3DM05 so that users can see their scores?
    Let me return with another question:

    Is it illegal to use a cracked serial key on software that has been officialy discontinued by the developer?
    Where courage, motivation and ignorance meet, a persistent idiot awakens.

  5. #55
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    I am thoroughly impressed by your competition statistics PJ

  6. #56
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    Yes, as far as I know it is as the copyright still stands for a further twenty (I think!!) years.
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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by dinos22 View Post
    gomeler who says that you have to use obsolete hardware to compete in 01
    HWBot does The top 50 in 1 and 2 GPU configurations are all E8600s. The ONE result I've even heard of for a non Core 2 that did well was a Gulftown at stratospheric clocks. So.. I'd say it's a bench for obsolete hardware.*

    *- or a gulftown at 7lolGHz.

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by [XC] gomeler View Post
    HWBot does The top 50 in 1 and 2 GPU configurations are all E8600s. The ONE result I've even heard of for a non Core 2 that did well was a Gulftown at stratospheric clocks. So.. I'd say it's a bench for obsolete hardware.*

    *- or a gulftown at 7lolGHz.
    All I can hear is that the Gulftown is not entirely ready for 01 just yet. 990X MIGHT be enough ... if Intel tuned it well
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  9. #59
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    I just tried to post this at FM forums....but my post doesn't show up...so I'll post here:

    Quote Originally Posted by miahallen
    Please reconsider FM....I agree with the other competitive benchers here, this would be a huge mistake....

    THESE BENCHMARKS ARE STILL CURRENT AND EXTREMELY POPULAR AT HWBOT and dropping support will be a devistating blow to the overclocking community.

    Can we compromise and only lose support for PCMark 2002 and 04? Those benchmarks are not important for us....but please don't take away 01, 03 and 05
    Last edited by miahallen; 10-22-2010 at 06:49 AM.
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  10. #60
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    We all knew this was coming. There's no point in expressing surprise or outrage. It's inevitable.

    I don't even use the ORB for anything anyways, so I couldn't care less. I can only hope that the new version of the ORB isn't nearly as sluggish or generally broken as its current incarnation.

    Quote Originally Posted by massman View Post
    All I can hear is that the Gulftown is not entirely ready for 01 just yet. 990X MIGHT be enough ... if Intel tuned it well
    I heard from someone about a year ago that Clarkdale would be capable of 150k. Wonder who it was?

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by miahallen View Post
    I just tried to post this at FM forums....but my post doesn't show up...so I'll post here:
    New users have their first few posts landing in a moderation queue to weed out spambots. Patience.

    As to the subject at hand - I don't have anything new to announce yet but I can say that there were some in-house discussions already today on the contents of the feedback thread, considering it and discussing potential solutions.

    Good, clear, concise feedback (especially feedback that says more than just "eek, don't do it") is still more than welcome.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gautam View Post
    I can only hope that the new version of the ORB isn't nearly as sluggish or generally broken as its current incarnation.
    This is the main reason why the massive job of a a total rewrite from the ground up was taken. You wouldn't believe the stuff that is currently running "under the hood" of ORB, being a cobbled-together mess done over ten years by multiple programmers and continually tweaked to support ever-growing (and, in many ways, incompatible) set of benchmarks and services..

  13. #63
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    I own 01/03/05/06/vantage keys

    please don't remove legacy benchmarks...

    thanks


  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gautam View Post
    We all knew this was coming. There's no point in expressing surprise or outrage. It's inevitable.
    I may be a bit ignorant about these things....but it was a shock to me. I was under the impression that HWBot's success and the huge growth in the OCing community over the past few years (since C2D arrived ) would warrant an extension for support. You cannot say that HWBot's growth hasn't helped FM's botton line....right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Massman
    My definition of 'efficient' is 'it does not suck monkeyballs'. Yes, I set bars low.
    [CENTER]The post counter is not an intelligence meter!

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  15. #65
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    On hwbot you only need validation for the top 20 overall in each 3d benchmark which requires atleast 2 cards most of the time 3. Most only bench single card so this doesnt effect THAT many people.
    I do like to see valid links though and compare
    Quote Originally Posted by L0ud View Post
    So many opinions and so few screenshots

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM_Jarnis View Post
    This is the main reason why the massive job of a a total rewrite from the ground up was taken.
    Well for that reason, I can't argue.

    Quote Originally Posted by miahallen
    I was under the impression that HWBot's success and the huge growth in the OCing community over the past few years (since C2D arrived ) would warrant an extension for support. You cannot say that HWBot's growth hasn't helped FM's botton line....right?
    You'd think so, but, that means even more so that it probably won't hurt them in any way to drop legacy benchmarks. From FM's perspective, it's a win-win.

  17. #67
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    OK, so the other thing that someone brought up was that the free version of 3DMark05 will be broken without the ORB....will FM release a patch to allow the free version to show the score?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarnis
    Quote Originally Posted by Guatam
    The older scores will remain on the database correct? All we need is a way of accessing them. I'd readily welcome them being dropped from the ORB if it means that the ORB is to become more functional. Any way for compare links for the older benches to continue working?
    Correct. Whatever happens, no data is deleted. Problem obviously being that the ORB is the only thing that can currently access the database.
    Oh, well that's not so bad. If the data is still there for the current ORB links to continue working, then the current records at the Bot will not be lost. Then from this point forward, a screenshot will be required for all the benches??? Is that correct Massman? I could live with that
    Last edited by miahallen; 10-22-2010 at 11:10 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Massman
    My definition of 'efficient' is 'it does not suck monkeyballs'. Yes, I set bars low.
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  18. #68
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    05: NOOOOOOO!

    03:


    2001:


    03 and 2001, my favourite 3D benches, fun to tweak and fast to run (i've like map half full of A4s where i've written fps results for every test per raised gpu/mhz clock)
    05 is fine too since you don't need to see cpu benches
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  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gautam View Post
    I can only hope that the new version of the ORB isn't nearly as sluggish or generally broken as its current incarnation.
    Hear hear
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jowy Atreides View Post
    Intel is about to get athlon'd
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  20. #70
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    ORB Support of Legacy Benchmarks - Round 2

    Last week we made an announcement about the upcoming full rewrite of the ORB, complete with some changes and a planned discontinuation of legacy benchmark ORB support. We asked for your feedback and boy did we get it. In fact we were taken completely by surprise by the number of people who wanted us to continue supporting older benchmarks.

    We are really pleased that so many people still find the older benchmarks useful and entertaining. So, we took another look and discussed the subject at length, considering what could be done, with all options on the table.

    After considering the situation, we decided to take the time and do the extra work to continue supporting older benchmarks. It can't be done in time for the launch of the new service, but adding support for 3DMark03 and 3DMark05 to it will be our top priority. There will be a short transition during which 03/05 support will be unavailable.

    As to 3DMark 2001 SE, we debated on it a lot but ultimately it boils down to several obstacles that, in combination, prevent us from adding it to the new system. First, even today 3DMark 2001 results in ORB are no longer validated in any way as the hardware component detection routines that shipped with it are not compatible with today's hardware, so the benefits of ORB validation are already very limited - the SystemInfo component used is completely different and cannot be updated like with 03/05/06/Vantage. The result format also has nothing in common with the later benchmarks, unlike 03/05 that are much more straightforward to support.

    Then there are the usage figures - 3DMark 2001 SE usage is only 1,5% of monthly benchmark results in ORB (In comparison, 3DMark03 is 2,6% and 3DMark05 is 4,8% of total monthly usage. 3DMark06 and Vantage together are over 90% of all 3DMark results). I know some of you are going to be disappointed, but when you combine the technical issues blocking reasonably easy implementation with the usage figures, we still have to stick with the hard choice of retiring 3DMark 2001 SE support with the launch of the new service.

    Thank you to everyone who took the time to post or get in touch with us. We really do care what our community thinks and as always, further feedback is more than welcome.

  21. #71
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    I feel that's a valid compromise and I'm very happy to hear at least 03 and 05 will stick around for a little while longer

  22. #72
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    This is acceptable, I suppose. It will pretty much kill 3DM2001 for the most part, but still, it will not stop the fans from comparing the results between themselves.
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  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by [XC] gomeler View Post
    I feel that's a valid compromise and I'm very happy to hear at least 03 and 05 will stick around for a little while longer
    Well, it may be a lot more than a little while - we don't plan on doing full ORB rewrites every year...

  24. #74
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    I hate to see 01 validation go, but it is a good trade off I guess. Congrats to FM for listening to the community.


  25. #75
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    Happy to hear this

    03 and 05 still scale with modern hardware, which assures their ongoing relevance in the benching community.

    Sad to see 01 go, but it's a compromise i'm happy with.

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