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Thread: Getting water down to none conductive and 0 TDS / 0us

  1. #26
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    Well i could sell as distilled but adding in ionic silver into it it could be a cheap biocide. The cost would be that much more than what is at the moment as i all ready have all the tools and equipment to make and test it. There for a natural biocide is in there.

    Im trying to move away from copper sulphate my self as it not really a environmentally friendly product and to be honest still would need topping up at a 6 month point. Its going to take me a few hours to produce 25 ltrs but i dont see no reason why it wouldn't work. Ive been looking at prices on line and paying £23.00 a Ltr is bloody mental and im working out the cost to make + bottle + waist water (well what my system is calling waist). I see now reason why it cannot be produced cheaper if controlled properly.
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  2. #27
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    Been a long couple of days figuring out problems and getting this system working.

    Any way this morning my mate took 6 samples (inc 2 tap water samples) into work with himself and they ran brake down tests on the samples to see what we had removed from the water. Now one thing we found out this morning was when we removed the coconut filters out the system which are supposed to remove order and make it taste better (which im not fussed about) the TDS and Us became more stable. So that wasn't needed in the system. Any way got my brake down via email (since hes pulled all night double Shift) and this is what he's sent back to me.

    From the Tap water being analysed to our samples this is what we have removed from the tap water.

    Calcium 97-99%
    Bromide 90-95%
    Sodium 95-98%
    Phosphate 97-98%
    Magnesium 95-98%
    Cyanide 94-97%
    Potassium 94-96%
    Sulfate 96-99%
    Manganese 96-98%
    Thiosulfate 96-98%
    Iron 96-98%
    Silicate 92-95%
    Aluminum 96-98%
    Silica 90-98%
    Copper 96-99%
    Nitrate 96-98%
    Nickel 96-99%
    Boron 70-75%
    Cadmium 93-97%
    Borate 30-50%
    Silver 94-96%
    Fluoride 93-95%
    Zinc 96-98%
    Polyphosphate 96-98%
    Mercury 94-97%
    Orthophosphate 96-98%
    Hardness Ca&Mg 93-97%
    Chromate 85-95%
    Radioactivity 93-97%
    Bacteria 99+ (the UV lamp you getting will make this 100% mick)
    Chloride 92-98%
    Lead 95-98%
    Ammonium 91-95%
    Arsenic 90-95%

    So looking at the results that quite good but to me still not good enough. Im still waiting for the new pump to arrive hopefully giving the system more pressure will help and as we found out removal of the coconut filter certainly did help ...

    All so my pre filter is 5 micron , i think i am going to get my self a 1 micron filter and add it just after the 5 micron filter all though i've been told the 1 micron filters tend to block a lot but since ill have a 5 micron filter beforehand this may stop that happing to much. All so im pushing the system though 3 DI filters when i can afford it im going to push this up to 4 DI filters as well.

    Hopefully i can improve on these results. (i really need some sleep hahaha)
    Last edited by mlwood37; 10-20-2010 at 05:32 PM.
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  3. #28
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    So is it cheaper and better including shipping than the US distilled or Deionized in the UK?

    You selling snake oil here. Some folks in the hinterlands might need it. They need to move out of the 1800's.

    Looks like marketing is your key to making a profit. Marketing can be done with booze and a email adress.

    Your gonna end up with some Feser fun promise that it's better because of no real reason, but peeps will buy it. You profit, thankfully there is truth availible on the internet.

    And Your Karma.
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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conumdrum View Post
    So is it cheaper and better including shipping than the US distilled or Deionized in the UK?

    You selling snake oil here. Some folks in the hinterlands might need it. They need to move out of the 1800's.

    Looks like marketing is your key to making a profit. Marketing can be done with booze and a email adress.

    Your gonna end up with some Feser fun promise that it's better because of no real reason, but peeps will buy it. You profit, thankfully there is truth availible on the internet.

    And Your Karma.
    Wtf have you been smoking ?

    Mlwood been straight up about what he's doing. And what the expected results are i've been following the threads I suggest you actually read them.

    He's made no unresonable claims, and is trying to Develop and put out a decent WC product.

    It's not to your taste so what. Doesn't mean other people don't want to use it or can't you see that past the chip on your shoulder.

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  5. #30
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    Snake oil originally came from China, where it is called shéyóu (蛇油). There, it was used as a remedy for inflammation and pain in rheumatoid arthritis, bursitis, and other similar conditions. Snake oil is still used as a pain reliever in China. Fats and oils from snakes are higher in eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) than other sources. Snake oil is still sold in traditional Chinese pharmacy stores.
    Water is a chemical substance with the chemical formula H2O. Its molecule contains one oxygen and two hydrogen atoms connected by covalent bonds. Water is a liquid at ambient conditions, but it often co-exists on Earth with its solid state, ice, and gaseous state, water vapor or steam.
    I think there is a distinctive difference ...

    Any way as not to bump the tread and to keep it back on topic.

    (update)

    I've been looking further into how we can get this more stable and just ordered the new 1 Micron filter and another in di filter.

    So the set up will go like this

    Tap water
    In-line TDS meter Primary readings.
    160 PSI water pump (on its way)
    Distillery stage 1,
    Distillery stage 2,
    5 Micron filter,
    1 Micron Filter, (on its way)
    Carbon Block, / Hits a flush valve for particle rejection and flushing the Osmosis Systems
    Osmosis system (3 stage parallel) (2 more to be bought yet just to increase production from 100 gallon to 300 gallon)
    Pre Di filter,
    Main DI Filter 1,
    Main Di Filter 2,
    In-line DI filter (on its way),
    High Power UV spectrum Lamp (To be bought),
    In line TDS meter (for reading final product value),
    To container (seal Drum with pressure out valve)

    Checks made once product has been left for 6 hours

    1) TDS reading in PPM (NaCI and 442)
    2) Us reading (NaCI and 442)
    3) PH vale (to be bought)
    4) Temperature readings

    Total build cost before mistakes - £570.25 (the coconut filter was £54 which wasn't needed and raised the TDS and Us Value this is not added into total over all cost)

    Expected Filter change out every 6 months
    Total filter cost - £175 every 6 months

    Once very thing is here i'll do re runs and full test and give readings again.

    AIM - to produce Real Ultra Pure water at 0 TDS / O uS (no ifs or buts)
    Befit - The knowledge that you are buying what you pay for and know exactly how its made and were it comes from.

    No other claim except that the reading to be real true readings, (100% Qc)

    Profit to be made (some ppl would not even get out of bed for the amount i make pmsl but i dont care).
    Last edited by mlwood37; 10-21-2010 at 07:06 AM.
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  6. #31
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    Ahh, mayhem. Perfection artist should be his title. Love the work that you do, you don't mind sharing pics of how your system looks/works do you?
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  7. #32
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    Yeh ill do that once its fully complete as its in loads of bits atm.

    I all so need to build a case for ir all to fit into .
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  8. #33
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    will also be interesting to see readings down the line after a couple months sitting in the bottle.
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  9. #34
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    I don't think you can drop water to being non conductive. Auto ionization of water prevents this.
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  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlwood37 View Post
    Yeh ill do that once its fully complete as its in loads of bits atm.

    I all so need to build a case for ir all to fit into .
    Just screw them to the sides under your sink (if its big enough) and run your lines from one to the other. Most of the filters can be nice and snug with double male fittings. I use a R/O system with other filters as well including carbon, 1 micron sediment as well as the ceramic cores (which are awesome by the way). I should take pics as its a lab under my sink...

    Quote Originally Posted by cegras View Post
    I don't think you can drop water to being non conductive. Auto ionization of water prevents this.
    Yup it's true and even if you managed for it not to the dust on the board will connect the dots anyway and zap.
    Last edited by Sadasius; 10-21-2010 at 04:42 PM.

  11. #36
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    Your right, I'm wrong. I'll back off.

    Someone wants perfect water for a day? More power to them.
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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sadasius View Post
    Just screw them to the sides under your sink (if its big enough) and run your lines from one to the other. Most of the filters can be nice and snug with double male fittings. I use a R/O system with other filters as well including carbon, 1 micron sediment as well as the ceramic cores (which are awesome by the way). I should take pics as its a lab under my sink...
    Sadasius - Yeh mate that's who is helping me. was on the phone to him yesterday and he said "you dont want much do you!! . I using the Ro-systems but he's even loving how far we can get it down to on a budget. This wont fit under the sink though its starting to get a little to large for it. I did start off with the 100 GPD 6 stage filter system but as you can see i have taken it a lot further than that and adjusted it to our needs instead.

    Conumdrum - nothing against what you saying at all (or you in fact). Just the idea is not to create a mega expensive product that claims the world. Its to be able to create some thing that actually is what it says on the bottle. When you buy a Bottle Of DI water there is no info on it telling you really what's inside. Some UW clams certain aspects of the liquids but they are always found to be way off the mark.

    Im not advertising it like snake oil in the sense that im not trying to sell you some thing under fake conditions or using lies or modified truths. Do not forget Just because you live in the USA you are not the only people on this planet. We live in England have to always pay a high price for most things we buy and the Di water over here isn't the best.

    cegras - I dont think it will stay a perfect 0/0 across the bored but if i can get it in the bottle that way at least we know it was a pure as can be when being bottled. But once it leave my hands though i have no control of temps , atmosphere ect.
    Last edited by mlwood37; 10-21-2010 at 11:24 PM.
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  13. #38
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    Small update.

    Now i have about 15 x 25 Ltr drums for holding water , There all Food grade and there all HDPE but there is a difference.

    We have White, Natural, Black and Blue. Now leaving the liquid in each one over a few days has provided some real strange results and that being that the white and natural 25 ltr drums both add about 0.08 ppm @ 19c (i expected this) and the black and blue add upwards of 4 PPM @ 19c (i never expected this). The liquids were injected into the drums direct from the system and cleaned thorough beforehand. The temp of the water when it was going into the drums was 18.5c and the ppm was 0.000 to 0.004. (the reader is calibrated with a 1000 PPM liquid with a 2% -/+)

    I find this really strange as its the same across 2 of each of the different colours of containers. Now for the life of me i see no reason why this is happening and in no way am i saying there is a difference between using different colour bottles but it certainly has got me stumped. Needs more testing and maybe a re test and re clean of all the drums and try it again and see if it happens again.

    Any way there is 6 x 1 ltr bottles stored in my airing cupboard and the temp in there is between 25c to 35c (raising and lowering as the heating goes on and off). Ill leave them in there for 7 days , I all so have 6 bottles in a box in the dark left in my second cupboard were the temp is 18 to 19c to run comparative tests. The bottles are all White 1 ltr HDPE bottles.

    Will let you know the tests results later on.

    ( i know this will bore some ppl and alot of peeps are not interested but its nice to know that bottles not stored correctly or in the wrong type can have its consequences).
    Last edited by mlwood37; 10-22-2010 at 07:35 PM.
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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlwood37 View Post
    Small update.

    Now i have about 15 x 25 Ltr drums for holding water , There all Food grade and there all HDPE but there is a difference.

    We have White, Natural, Black and Blue. Now leaving the liquid in each one over a few days has provided some real strange results and that being that the white and natural 25 ltr drums both add about 0.08 ppm @ 19c (i expected this) and the black and blue add upwards of 4 PPM @ 19c (i never expected this). The liquids were injected into the drums direct from the system and cleaned thorough beforehand. The temp of the water when it was going into the drums was 18.5c and the ppm was 0.000 to 0.004. (the reader is calibrated with a 1000 PPM liquid with a 2% -/+)

    I find this really strange as its the same across 2 of each of the different colours of containers. Now for the life of me i see no reason why this is happening and in no way am i saying there is a difference between using different colour bottles but it certainly has got me stumped. Needs more testing and maybe a re test and re clean of all the drums and try it again and see if it happens again.

    Any way there is 6 x 1 ltr bottles stored in my airing cupboard and the temp in there is between 25c to 35c (raising and lowering as the heating goes on and off). Ill leave them in there for 7 days , I all so have 6 bottles in a box in the dark left in my second cupboard were the temp is 18 to 19c to run comparative tests. The bottles are all White 1 ltr HDPE bottles.

    Will let you know the tests results later on.

    ( i know this will bore some ppl and alot of peeps are not interested but its nice to know that bottles not stored correctly or in the wrong type can have its consequences).
    Are they transparent? If not, then I'm confused.
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  15. #40
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    Another question: why do you toss all that water away when you could run it through the filter again?
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  16. #41
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    No there normal black and blue. Like i say i need to re test as the results dont add up.

    It cannot be put back into the mains. how ever later on down the line the water will be filtered a second time / 3rd time but i cannot afford to get a full set up and have to build it bit by bit. Plus im having massive problems due to RO-Man being a pain in the ass and not supplying every thing i ordered and paid for up front. E.g the in line TDS meter was never delivered and i had to buy another one. Been waiting for over a week now for the Pump which will reduce the amount of waste plus drop the TDS more. Plus the fact ive had to wait in all week for some thing he never even bothered his ass to send and didn't even tell me.

    So ive been looking for a more reliable supplier for the items as so far im out over £125 because of him. Sick to death of phoning and emailing and getting no response as well. So i wouldn't recommend any one buying any thing off him.
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  17. #42
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    is it possible the blue and black are leeching dye/color? food grade doesn't mean immune from that, only that anything they leech out isn't harmful and doesnt noticeably affect taste.
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  18. #43
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    that's one of my thoughts so ive re run liquids into them ill test again tomorrow.

    if they show the same results then seemingly its not a good idea to use Black or Blue drums to store liquids.

    This will all so prove that the pre bought water was so bad because of the packaging hence why i started to make my own in the first place.

    Pic of how the system will work once finished.

    Bit over Kill but hay its fun doing it.

    Last edited by mlwood37; 10-23-2010 at 05:08 PM.
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  19. #44
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    *looks at chart*

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  20. #45
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    wait... no snake oil?

    pfft. waste of time then ; ).

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by cegras View Post
    Another question: why do you toss all that water away when you could run it through the filter again?
    It's how the R.O System works. Mine is designed the same way and has a hose that I had to attach to the drain and is where the 'reject' water goes. When my holding tank is full then the R/O system is no longer running. But as soon as I use some water from the pure water tank it starts to produce pure water again. My system produces only 17 litres a day on full capacity (it's not a high yield just high quality). The system rejects 7 times that number because of all the impurities and lack of pressure. Mind you Mayhem is inducing pressure with another pump to make the R/O System more efficient but at the same time can lead to wear and tear on the R/O membrane much faster and those damn things are expensive depending on the system you have and how much chlorine is coming in.

    I should get some of these TDS meters though. Basically went on the word of NSF that tested the systems installed. Maybe I should test my own systems for myself as I had no way to answer some questions on my own systems which is kind of sad. I use my water in my W/C system but seriously though it makes no difference when compared to distilled water. I just use my R/O water because it makes sense to since I have the system to use it. It would not make sense though getting one installed thinking it will do anything better then distilled because it will not and in fact may cause more harm to your system as it will leech materials from your rads, blocks and fittings to balance the water. Just having a cup of pure water sitting on the counter you would quickly notice using litmus paper that the Ph is going up as it adopts carbon atoms from the air. City run R/O systems are much dirtier water due to the pipes that it goes through before it gets to your glass. Could be anything from lead to actual sewage. My in house R/O system uses its own faucet.
    Last edited by Sadasius; 10-24-2010 at 07:57 PM.

  22. #47
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    Yeh that's why im all so introducing triple RO membranes into the system. to reduce the amount of waste water. (yup they aint cheap but hay if it works then im happy).

    Any way onto this matter with the blue and black drums. 100% confirmed my readings to day. (this morning)

    Black and Blue food safe drums up the TDS and US value of water goes by as much as 5 TDS in 18 Hrs. White increases the TDS between 0.5 to 0.7 TDS and natural 0.1 to 0.5.

    So Do not use Black or Blue drums to store water and ill be passing this info and all my test results to a D-Water maker that i have had loads of problems in the past and explains why "Car Plan" water has all ways been better in the past as its stored in White drums.

    You learn some thing new ever day.

    Sadasius - If you going to get a hand TDS get the HM Digital EC/TDS/TEMP COM-100 i had 4 different ones now and 2 died on me and 1 is flaky as hell. This is the only one that gives constant good reading and calibrates easily in comparison. you pay a little more for it but its worth the money. They all so do in-line meter which are good to. This is excellent for finding out the water in / water out TDS. Mind you im racking up the £'s on my water tester's for this fluid as i've now spent well over £150 on water meters. pmsl
    Last edited by mlwood37; 10-25-2010 at 12:37 AM.
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  23. #48
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    So what benefit does this give over distilled for most WC'ers? Knowing that they had the purest water for a few seconds?

    Can it be purchased by the liter for cheap? Or will you be selling it at a higher price than Pure-Sil ?

    Seriously, my loop is not 100% clean, there are not many growths yet but I can see some oxidation on blocks as well as a small bit of residue in my res. If I used this stuff it would bring me about...no benefit.
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  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBeep2 View Post
    So what benefit does this give over distilled for most WC'ers? Knowing that they had the purest water for a few seconds?

    Can it be purchased by the liter for cheap? Or will you be selling it at a higher price than Pure-Sil ?

    Seriously, my loop is not 100% clean, there are not many growths yet but I can see some oxidation on blocks as well as a small bit of residue in my res. If I used this stuff it would bring me about...no benefit.
    Maybe if you read the whole post its about paying for what you get. And this is the same price as DI water. The only difference is this is purer and at least you know what you are paying for. DI water is not as good, dont know what PPM it has dont know what US it has ect ect. So you tell me more Value for money or not. Or haven't you read the whole thread.

    All so the fact that leaning things like Blue and Black containers make liquids worse .... oh dear me nope you may not have read that bit, or the fact im actually teaching people how im doing it as well so if people want to do it them self they can OMG forbid im telling people how i make this stuff so even they can make there own wow. crap ... ... arr wait one let me think im reading the same thing some one else posted up .... pmsl....
    Last edited by mlwood37; 10-25-2010 at 03:33 AM.
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    If you need to direct contact me its michael at mayhems dot co dot uk.

  25. #50
    Xtreme Guru
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Latvia, Riga
    Posts
    3,959
    It might be for same price as distilled in UK or in EU .. but if shipped overseas, won't shipping price difference make it sensless compared to DI bought locally?

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