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Thread: Getting water down to none conductive and 0 TDS / 0us

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    Getting water down to none conductive and 0 TDS / 0us

    Getting water down to none conductive and 0 TDS / 0 us !

    Why? .... Because we can if we try ...

    I have been working with a mate and after lots of help we have been playing getting water down to 0 TDS / 0us in my home factory. Its been a bit of a struggle but were getting there.

    Now i have 3 different types of TDS meter's but the one in the shoots is the most accurate and was calibrated with 3 different levels of TDS liquids from 1000 TDS to 550 TDS and last but not least 150 TDS. We also calibrated the other two meter's as well but this one seems to be the best of them all for readings.

    So any way first we start off with the TDS Reading of the tap water as you can see its reading at 166 TDS which to be honest as tap water goes is not that bad in comparison to a friend’s house which we read at 650 TDS.



    Now we ran 100 Ltrs of water though our system which took about 2 hours and we got the TDS down to 5.1 which is the same as most good branded DI water and it is what is used in most liquids for PCs. However it still isn’t good enough for me.



    So after running another 250 Ltrs though the system we got the TDS down to 2.3 TDS which means were getting closer to the target



    Now after loads of messing and increasing the Pressure to the system to the max we could go at the time of 60 PSI and another 500 Ltrs of water we finally hit our target..

    OTDS and 0uS – real none conductive water... (well till dust gets to it any way )




    However this is fluctuating between 0.00 and 0.03 which to me isn’t good enough as i want constant 0 uS and 0 TDS. So i’ve just order a new pump which should bring the pressure up in our system to maximum of 160PSI and Hopefully give us a constant 0 TDS supply.

    Ill post up results once its come.

    Btw way the system im using first starts off with A distiller then thought a reverse osmosis then though a Di system. I will be all so getting a new UV system to throw in there as well later on down the line just to cover all aspects of purifying the liquids down ... I love messing with this stuff haha.

    Who needs a factory to do this when it can be done with a little thought and lots of wet fun ....
    Last edited by mlwood37; 10-19-2010 at 03:30 AM.
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  2. #2
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    It's great to continue researching and trying to improve - whether it's hardware, water blocks, or coolants.

    So please don't take my comments as negative towards your work. It seems to me there is way too much concern over water quality these days. Again, it's good people are taking care, but we really aren't building nuclear power plants here (well, most of us aren't ).

    As you indicated in your post - the quest for Zero TDS and Zero Conductivity is fun - but once the water comes in contact with dust or any other "particles," Zero no more. I can only imagine the amount of flushing and clean room work needed to maintain an actual water cooling loop at ZERO.

    Again - my comments aren't meant to disparage your efforts. Research is good, but "average" quality distilled (or even *gasp* deionized) water will do fine in our loops.

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    No for me its about the ability and the pure satisfaction that it can be done all so obversely the fact that ill be retailing it off once its perfected. How ever right at the moment in time its all just fun ...

    All so with the ability to create this means that i know have a constant supply of HQ water for the dyes so again it will improve the product. Now we know its possible to do this ill be buying in more equipment to do the same to the dyes making them even purer how ever i doubt i can get dyes down to none conductive but its worth a try.

    And i dont take your comment at all as a bad one because your stating facts that ever one should know about and this should always be considered before falling for the trap of Hyped up a product.

    But still with this type of water it is better than normal DI as you know that there is nothing in it, which is not a bad thing.
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    I can appreciate what you are trying to do with the quality of your product. At work, I am partially responsible for operating the plant’s reactor make -up water treatment system. Our system produces water that needs to be at least .06 uS/cm. We also have limits regarding the sodium and silica levels but these minerals shouldn’t be a concern for water cooler, as their harmful effect doesn’t apply (high temperatures in the case of silica and stainless steel in the case of sodium).

    Dissolved oxygen is the other parameter that we have to monitor and one that is would be good to control in your water cooling loop, but to be honest would be too hard for even the most extreme enthusiast to control or monitor.

    The biggest problem when dealing with high purity water is its affinity to reabsorb minerals and impurities.

    I find it some what amazing that simple filtration chemistry control systems haven’t found a niche in the water cooling market, the number of post I see on this forum related to chemistry control problems tells me that there is a need for such a system. When you spend a thousand dollars for a top end cooling system only to experience corrosion and fouling issues spending 50 dollars to keep the system from being damaged doesn’t seem that outrageous to me.

    A simple resin bed system would be nice for providing mechanical filtration and some decent chemical control.

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    It hasn't made into PC watercooling market because it's not issue worth enough taking care of, at least if you don't put aluminium components in loop. Just like with inline mechanical waterfilters for LC out there, - yes, they are not very costly and don't impact flow too much .. but in most cases if you properly clean/rinse all components before assembling loop (especially rads), you don't need such. Probably same story about that chemical control - you don't really "damage" that cooling system, so no need to do something about it. Yes, water becomes conductive, and sollute dust/metallic ions/oxigen. Is it really THAT bad @LC, or just empirical imagination that it's bad by some placebo effect?

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    The only problem i see with using resin beds is the fact that it slows down the flow of the liquids. This could cause major problems if in a water cooling system because the weaker pumps wouldn't be able to handle it. All so i dont think water cooling blocks are tested to a pressure that would be needed in a system to force the liquids through the resin bed.

    Any one could literal supply you with the best water in the world for you system but its down to the user to clean there system properly before using such products. How ever some suggestions i seen flying around for cleaning a water cooling loop simply make me cringe. All so people leaving water in there system for over a year really isn't a good idea.
    Last edited by mlwood37; 10-19-2010 at 07:07 AM.
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    I think the typical inline cylindrical reservoir could be converted fairly easily to a simple resin bed by adding a strainer screen to outlet. We have small resin beds at work for sampling that would be perfect for this and I know that the differential pressure across them is pretty low. Even just having a bed that could be valved in on a regular basis with the computer shut down would be fine. I will take a few pictures to give you an idea of what I am talking about. Maybe even some of the water treatment system just to show people what a industrial high purity water treatment system setup looks like.

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    NIce job.

    But my real concern is that this water wont stay at 0 TDS. Even if i have 500 liter of this to clean my loop, as soon as this water will run trough the loop it not goin to be long before its conductive again cause of all the copper its touching.
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    no it wouldn't stay at 0 tds as that's imposable unless you stick filters in your system but its purer than di water. For me to get 0 Tds in the bottle, the bottle has to be flushed 3 times. But as terms go when you go buy DI water as pointed plenty of times before DI water can range as high as 10 TDS to as low as 5 TDS. Were this is as pure it can be guaranteed.

    that's of course once ive perfected it.
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    That is why I brought up the resin bed idea, but I could see doing a fill with distilled water then bringing the system to normal operating temperature, higher if possible, then drain out the distilled water and adding the demin water. Should leave you with better than average conductivity especially if you can get the system relatively hot while it has the distilled water in it.

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    There's something about seeing the thought process and tenacity of how you work that is just awe inspiring.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akula View Post
    That is why I brought up the resin bed idea, but I could see doing a fill with distilled water then bringing the system to normal operating temperature, higher if possible, then drain out the distilled water and adding the demin water. Should leave you with better than average conductivity especially if you can get the system relatively hot while it has the distilled water in it.
    I thought you idea is fantastic to be honest and erm well some thing i was thinking about before but not as a resin bed.

    I had a quick look into the info on the resin i use for this system and I use 10" vessels with a Diameter of 4" and they are rated at 3500 Gallons or 6 months. So taking that into account and looking at the modern day pumps in water cooled PCs + the factor that a PC may be switched on 24/7 you may be looking at having to change the resin bed on a monthly basis.

    How ever ! Create / design an electronic flow meter and temp meter, (would need to work out time as well) do the maths , create a easy system to add in the resin and remove it with seals (say a slide in & out system with a pe-sealed amount of resin). then i think you would be onto creating the perfect environment or water cooling system that will last a long time.

    How ever the bad thing is recirculation ... Even resin can become fouled and ruin the balance of the water so constant checks would need to be viewed say though a window in the app that you created.. .. could be possible be could be annoying but very interesting ...

    Oh yeh flushing with d-water first then this would create a better environment for the 0 TDS liquids to go into . that's how my bottles are cleaned. first i clean with 5 tds di water then 3 tds di water then a quick flush with this water then i fill them. (slow process but it works).
    ---------

    Still thinking more you could even create a Plug in system via USB that Produces on screen a accurate meter to read the temps / Flow / TDS / EC and possibly PH balance of the liquid cooling system all in one system with the DI resin draw. With built software based alarm systems of when to change the Resin and calculating the remaining time .... Maybe this is over engineering a solution but heck it certainly would be fun to create.

    This would take Water cooling into a new age that's for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by defect9 View Post
    There's something about seeing the thought process and tenacity of how you work that is just awe inspiring.
    Erm now im speechless .. thank you.
    Last edited by mlwood37; 10-19-2010 at 03:23 PM.
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    yeah, nice and all, but you do realize it will all turn conductive after a short period of time in the loop...
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericFX1984 View Post
    yeah, nice and all, but you do realize it will all turn conductive after a short period of time in the loop...
    please read the rest of the forum post weave been discussing that ... in detail.
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    My suggestion:

    $5/liter, 5 TDS guaranteed distilled

    Right now all we have is the ultra high end expensive stuff, so people bail to the grocery store using water of unknown origins or quality. Would be great to have a product that is basically ordinary distilled water with a little quality control checking at reasonable prices.

    Love the testing though, that's awesome for the extreme.

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    my target price is the same price you pay for distilled. (well that's my aim any way). Atm the cost has been laid down for the liquid the killer is the bottles.

    For me to be able to produce this to a point (price point) i have to buy bottles in 1000's so that money can be made how ever. Im planning on not making any money on this product until i can substantiate and have the ability to be able to buy in bulk.

    This will come with time.

    All so things to Note i have a 98% rejection rate. meaning only 2% of product is made from 100% flow. So for me to create 1 Ltr i get rid of 98 Ltrs this may seem high but dont forget this really is still early development. We've all ready been talking about adding 2 more osmosis chambers into the grid and with the new pump arriving this will all so increase the % at what is made and what is rejected. All so when i can afford it again ill be adding in a 4th system winch is a UV light that kills off the remaining bacteria. Now i know that it is not really needed how ever the extra cost of the appliance is worth the extra knowledge that what i am making is as good as its ever going to get.

    some thing ppl may take into account is that i dont have money to throw around (trust me my budget is every penny i make and get goes into this) and I have to make sure that what ever i buy is going to improve the product and is not just some thing that sounds good. Every thing I do, I throw my self at 100%. I spend a lot of my time on the phone and a lot of my time on goggle and approaching people who are in the know to get help for free.

    I hear the phrase time is money. Well to me time is not money because i never make a penny. what i do get is satisfaction.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martinm210 View Post
    My suggestion:

    $5/liter, 5 TDS guaranteed distilled

    Right now all we have is the ultra high end expensive stuff, so people bail to the grocery store using water of unknown origins or quality. Would be great to have a product that is basically ordinary distilled water with a little quality control checking at reasonable prices.

    Love the testing though, that's awesome for the extreme.
    here check out my target price ->http://www.wcdyes.com/Shop/23-pure-h20 .. better than di and cheaper than di.
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    ml, just out of curiosity, what's the pH of the 0/0 water after all processes?
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    GREAT question! And what is our optimal PH?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mlwood37 View Post
    here check out my target price ->http://www.wcdyes.com/Shop/23-pure-h20 .. better than di and cheaper than di.
    Nice..great work!

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    The Ph is 6.2 to 7 how ever this fluctuates with in this range (way to much) and my test system is not perfect yet. That's the next thing on my buy list as well is a decent PH meter as i dont trust the readings on the meter i have and it doesn't seem to calibrate to well.

    Perfect PH for water cooling system is about 7 (as this is the perfect balance between acid and alkaline) or lower 5.5 to 6's being the min (this is DI water range normally). Any thing over 7.9 is considered acid hence no good for water cooling.

    this is the meter im after -> http://www.tdsmeter.co.uk/shop/produ...&products_id=7
    Last edited by mlwood37; 10-19-2010 at 09:05 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlwood37 View Post
    The Ph is 6.2 to 7 how ever this fluctuates with in this range (way to much) and my test system is not perfect yet. That's the next thing on my buy list as well is a decent PH meter as i dont trust the readings on the meter i have and it doesn't seem to calibrate to well.

    Perfect PH for water cooling system is about 7 (as this is the perfect balance between acid and alkaline) or lower 5.5 to 6's being the min (this is DI water range normally). Any thing over 7.9 is considered acid hence no good for water cooling.

    this is the meter im after -> http://www.tdsmeter.co.uk/shop/produ...&products_id=7
    Good to hear that it's a good bit better than what I was expecting. I know a "certain company" that sells bi-distilled water that isn't going to be as pure as this stuff and they're claiming a pH in the 2-3 range.

    Actually, acids are at the low end and bases are at the high end.
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    sorry been up all night. yeh your correct. .

    But like i say though my readings are not accurate yet.
    Last edited by mlwood37; 10-19-2010 at 09:41 PM.
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    been keeping an eye on the waste water and found its coming out at a TDS of between 2.4 to 3.5 this isn't really that bad as its still better than pure DI water. So my brain going into gear as per normal and been reading up on Ionic Silver water and how dammed easy it is to make it. So over the last few hours ive knocked up a test ionic chamber and now running off some Ionic silver test samples to see if i can get a good concentrate made easily. Im going to try and hit 20 PPM since the fluids is 3.5 TDS max this means it still has the ability to conduct electricity hence still is better than Di water and should create a near perfect solution.

    (good old saying waste Not wont Not) if it works that not only means ill be hopefully making 0 TDI liquids and the waste will be used for other purposes. After all why chuck some thing that seems to be better than most brands any way pmsl. Once the Silver ionic is made i can shove it though one of my 1 micron spare filters so that i know the liquids are still going to be pretty dammed pure with out removing to much silver ion particles.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlwood37 View Post
    been keeping an eye on the waste water and found its coming out at a TDS of between 2.4 to 3.5 this isn't really that bad as its still better than pure DI water. So my brain going into gear as per normal and been reading up on Ionic Silver water and how dammed easy it is to make it. So over the last few hours ive knocked up a test ionic chamber and now running off some Ionic silver test samples to see if i can get a good concentrate made easily. Im going to try and hit 20 PPM since the fluids is 3.5 TDS max this means it still has the ability to conduct electricity hence still is better than Di water and should create a near perfect solution.

    (good old saying waste Not wont Not) if it works that not only means ill be hopefully making 0 TDI liquids and the waste will be used for other purposes. After all why chuck some thing that seems to be better than most brands any way pmsl. Once the Silver ionic is made i can shove it though one of my 1 micron spare filters so that i know the liquids are still going to be pretty dammed pure with out removing to much silver ion particles.
    Very nice! Maybe premix that 3.5 with a drop of copper sulfate, and it would be a great lower cost, ready to use biocide included distilled..

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