New DIY Projects soon!

[Donnie27]

Sanding went well and started painting the inner section. Then we lost power last night. Just when I got caught up that sat me back. I could have installed the trim and stained the sides If I can finished doing that tonight, I have to wait a day for it to set/dry then put on the Polyurethane, let it dry for a day, then install the speakers. I still might cover the inner area with some kind of Black contact vinyl or etc....

I also have to concoct a plate for the Horn Tweeter. I've decided to use the Planar for the super tweeter.

[Donnie27]

Now I know I will use covering especially on the black parts first.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=261-618

[[DANGERDAN]]

This is impressive donnie, well done iv always wanted to do something like this,
I think the hardest part for me would be the design and creating the crossover board xD.

[Donnie27]

This is impressive donnie, well done iv always wanted to do something like this,
I think the hardest part for me would be the design and creating the crossover board xD.

I'm re-using one from an old set. But there are serveral sites who'll either design, build and do all the leg work for you. This what I do when I don't know the specs for the speakers.

There's a whole new thread needed for that subject. For me, when they (drivers/speakers) are known, type of enclosure you'd like for example Sealed, Ported, Vented, Band Pass, and then variations of of those, that's the easy part. You can mold them to your liking.

Like Klipsch?

http://www.critesspeakers.com/crossovers.html

They'll even give you advice on what drivers to use.

If you have an idea of what you like, then you can pick your raw speakers and have someone like Madisound and Parts Express help you. Both have forums that have very NICE folks who'll help you build crossovers step by step. These are just two of hundreds of places that feed addictions that many of us DIYers have

Then everyone has different likes and dislikes so you can get folks like these Speaker Builder.Net who'll condense years of off topic BS and get you right to the meaty part. But, if you like details, they'll ALWAYS post links to everything you might ever wonder about. I'am into SPL, especially when OTHERS are doing it, sort of like LN overclocking and then going home to your 24/7 mildly overclocked system.

[Donnie27]

Back to my project.

Build goals.

I bought a set of Pioneer CS-922A in 1981 while in the US Army, stationed in Germany and was very happy with them. I wanted a Set of HPM 1500 but buying a Phase Linear Noise reduction unit, dbx Audio/video Voice Processor, Akai Reel to Reel, Pioneer CTF-1050 Cassette, Pioneer Turn Table, and Kenwood Super 11 Receiver, money was limited. I would later add a 12 ban EQ and Pioneer Reverb AMP. The funny thing was I picked these over a couple of sets Acoustic Research, Bostons, JBL, Kenwood, Sansui, Technics that were in similar price ranges. Hell, I like them better than the Klipsch Hersey, more expensive models as well. Totally thought the sweet sounding B&O, B&W and others weren't worth their Lofty prices and I'm talking Military discounted prices. Worst of all were the Bose 901's that really needed their own separate Amp and Spacial EQ. There were some Cantons and Rotel speakers I wished I had money for but I digress.

During the Barracks Audio shootouts (and almost any GI's knows what I'm talking about) the 922a held their own against all comers. So when I see crap from so called Experts who never heard them come up with terms like "Kabuki" I laugh at their ignorance. Oh and many of the JBL's that the AudioKarma folks and others like? Most us GI's had a saying for them; "Just Bang Loudly". Too many of us agreed, except for the Top models, the rest sucked!

The only thing I didn't like about the originals (CS-922A) were their Super Tweeter Horns that were half way between a Tin-can and Piezo-ish sounding. That one demerit caused Pioneer a lot sales of these. Other makers used similar crap. The Dayton Planar Tweeter loves this same connection from the crossover with MUCH better results.

The 5" mid range would some times overpower the rest of the speakers when not listening to Music with a lot of Bass. Note, they were adjustable. It would have made it to this build but they are already a great part of the DIY set upstairs in my computer room. As good as they are, the 6.5 Cerwin Vega is even better.

Bass? These had NO shortage of Bass and rated at 101db per 1 watt at 1 meter it wasn't hard to make that bass pump out. Some info says 99db but I think even the 101db is conservative. Opinions are like @$$holes and each stink in their own individual way and this is mine (mine will stink for many others but that's OK). But also a lot of GI's believed they made great sounds as well. They seemed to always be out of stock so many GI's bought them. The over whelming feed back through the Audio Club/BX-PX was ditch the Horn crap! Then they went cheap on other parts and sucked even more Mine were my 2nd pair after a German guy repairing the barracks made me a sweet offer. We were only allowed to sell used, selling new was a BIG NO NO! The 2 tweeters in the 922's could/should have been replaced by one of Pioneer's own Softdome and Ribbon tweeters. I will use a Softdome and the excellent Horn tweeter from a set of Optimus Mach 1's of which I still have a set as well. These were tested against other tweeters and mids. These are best of 12 sets (yes, I have too much stuff going un-used). The woofer in this Cabinet is the only question mark. I'm using their original crossover so at least that will not be a problem. I have two 15" MTX Road Thunder woofers if these don't cut it

[Donnie27]

Got them up and running, then one of the crossovers died! First the woofer, then the tweeter. I had taken the lights off to make room for the grill.

The speakers can easily hang with the power that my old school JVC can dish out. Well, looks like the crossover couldn't

For a short time I was treated to some very nice vibrations

The tweeters, one soft-dome and one planar had to be tone down. I ended up connecting the Optimus Horn Mach 1 horn to the Super Tweeter because it was just too loud used as a tweeter. In the enclosure they begged to be switched from my original plan )planar as super tweeter).

Looks like I might have to do a custom crossover since the other two aren't powerful enough.

Oh and I checked both crossovers with a DM and one performed as it should, the other didn't. I had checked them before with no problems. I never messed up a crossover before.

[Donnie27]

I took the Pioneer Crossover to my TV repairman to confirm what I thought was wrong and he just said, "It's dead, how'd you fry it?". But this was a blessing in disguise. I went back and tried the big but only 60 Watt Sansui SP-1500x Crossovers.



A better look at it!



It's only 60 watts but that's Ole School 60 watts and not PMO 600 Watts LOL! I only paid $24 after shipping a long time ago. Although I set these up as Temp with stand offs, I'm very temped to fully install them. Meaning only Bass heavy music will make the receiver and speakers start to strain. They handle Rock, Classical, Old Motown, Funk, Acid and Grunge Rock, all kinds of Jazz and even Disco LOL! Sorry, I don't listen to much Blues and Country I do listen to almost everything else.

I never thought this thing would make this group speakers sound this good. I also notice these and the other crossovers are more efficient and the old Sansui Speakers weren't. I used lower volume to get the same SPL. Even my Pioneer doesn't seem as weak The only speakers in my home that are more efficient are the smaller two way and boom box speakers. None of my larger speakers come close.

Even in 5.1 Mode I had to adjust the volume on the Front speakers lower so they wouldn't drown out the surround speakers. Now all of the Mid-Bass, Treble and Highs were awesome! But not really what I built them for.

We watch this and use the speakers instead of headphones, it was creepy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbOmy...eature=related

Sold, set demo.
http://www.tubechunk.com/video/sh503...y-auction.html

Too many drivers and cancellation? Horse S#it Some G.I buddies and I were speaker hunting & switching out speakers left and right. The two tweeters I'm using are different and each brings something different to the table. One comment on his page cracked me up!

Jun 2, 2010 - @drjoeshmoe Speakers now a days are made better, most typical speaker disasters are user errors; while common people think "if they volume can go up, let's do it!". The make is not the problem, its the people that don't know how to use them the right way, that is the issue. You definitely took care of those in the video, the buyer is lucky, and I hope they don't just blow them out because "I want loud music".

Some speakers were well built then and just like SOME are now! SOME speakers today SUCK just like some speakers back then sucked. Broad Brushing and Stereotyping is STUPID and pretty DUMB.

Dec 3, 2010 - People keep saying "when they were well built"... Well, in those days, it was trial and error. They did NOT know what they know now because so many things were discovered and computer-calculated WAY later

http://www.klipsch.com/na-en/news/fe...years-details/

Oh and computer aided design is "Theory", not written in stone. Good builders will still tweak and play with the finished product.

[Donnie27]

[BabyCrying=Donnie27] Waaaaaaeee![/BabyCrying] I wish my Pioneer had my JVC's or Old Harmon Kardon's AMP/s

Those speakers helped the Pioneer a lot and it still get's whacked by the JVC and not in the same league as HK 730 Twin Amp, but then again, not many NEWer Gen receivers are. My wife had to kick my @$$ out of the Den

Wood was free, only used a couple of oz's of Poly and Paint, not enough stain to talk about. Old Pioneer woofers were left overs, $25 for the Cerwin Vega Mid-Range set,$ 20 each both sets of tweeters and $24 for the crossover. So about $100. They sound as good as my Mach 1's and better than my Fishers 9v (not as loud). The latter 2 are very nice speakers BTW!

[Donnie27]

I'm not doing anymore construction just yet. I'm waiting until after I get my Router Buddy Jig.

http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Tech...7889843&sr=8-2

I got my hands on one and loved it instantly. $64.99 seemed over priced until I played with one. Now I think that price is sweet I'm ordering mine tomorrow.
I'm NOT paid to endorse any company here.

The I can finish the Grills, yes Grills with the Dayton Grill Cloth that pretty much transparent.

[STEvil]

I make my own jigs, pretty easy with a few tools :p

[Donnie27]

I make my own jigs, pretty easy with a few tools :p

I made my own for the large cuts but never got the one for small cuts and circles to work. The big one is easy.



Holes the same size as the metal guide rods and a hole centered on a block of wood! I stepped on and broke my all wood one After a hands on with the Router Buddie seeing how versatile, quick, accurate, and easy it was to adjust or change settings, I was hooked!

Oh well. I removed the soft-dome tweeter, made the mounting hole larger and install an ESS 5" Mid-Range that had much different texture/characteristics to it than Cerwin Vega 6.5" monster.

http://cgi.ebay.com/5-Closed-Back-Mi...item53e3ebe668

Edit: Each speaker consists of a Optimus Mach Tweeter, Dayton Planar tweeter, Cerwin Vega 6.5" mid range, ESS 5" Mid Range and 15" Pioneer Woofer. I haven't turned on my Sub in two days LOL! I'm moving my Mach Ones to my Computer Room upstairs.

[Donnie27]

I'm settled on these and I'm almost ready to start the double wedge amplified sub. The likes about this project? The supports near the vent on the bottom didn't line up and the Crossovers aren't straight in the back. I also DON'T like the patches over un-used places like those over where the Tone Controls and Lights were. I need to clean up over sprays and build Grills.

If I had to pick the most impressive thing about the speaker it would be Imaging! That was one of the reasons I did blind tests on the Op-amp on the Prelude and listening to this result, I picked the right one. I like the sound NOT being localized to each speaker and there's
not a narrow sweet spot. Separation or Stereo Left and Right is dependent on the source, not the system. I played the full 3D Holophonic Matches demo meant for Headphones and it is astounding how much of that demo these speakers placed in the correct position.

To make sure this wasn't just physiological or etc... I moved these out of the way and set up the Optimus Mach Ones which are very good speakers. They sound slightly different, not better but didn't project sound the same way. Its massive Mid-Range Horn couldn't touch the two in the DIYers (must give them a name) since they feature the same horn tweeter plus the DIYers adds a Planar. The four driver that do everything but Bass blend well. I did try only 1 tweeter and 1 Mid but all four sounded better. Each speaker seemingly having similar db levels was luck, not research and completely puts the original drivers to same. Sansui did mix the Mids and Now I know why.

[Donnie27]

As I said in the other thread, the turret or Top is the only thing I didn't like about them. So far two others thought the sub was on when it wasn't.

[STEvil]

one of the turret tops is backwards :p

[Donnie27]

one of the turret tops is backwards :p

Nope, they were intended that way. The speakers are meant as Direct Copies (same) and not Mirror Images (opposing) of each. Both the SP-1500 and CSA -922a's are both made that way as well. Don't get me wrong here, I wanted them opposing and still might change them.

I went with the way each of the crossover layouts were intended. I had the crossover thoroughly checked and the Rubby* caps were almost perfect. My bud didn't believe how well preserved they were. Must have been owned by a little old lady he said Or they were connected to a very weak receiver.

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....-1500-Speakers

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedi...akers-97180705

I'd wanted to use this crossover at first but changed my mine. Other speakers I've built have either been In-line and opposing. I got no problem doing that. In fact, the "Sweet 10's" now on the rear channel are opposing.

I'll more than like re-face the top or turret. The only real question is to leave them or switch to opposing. You think it would make that much of a difference? This morning the wife and I were listening to the Acapella version of "Only You" from the early eighties.

http://www.singers.com/7381c/Flying-...xt-Generation/

Gave me goose bumps and made us miss a time from over 25 years ago. We talked about our flat/apartment in Germany and 1983-1984 New Years party. This is a very good speaker test song and an excellent recording even for those who don't like the song. Sorry for Rambling!

[STEvil]

I like to have symmetry in my towers, so having them like that would drive me nuts. There's likely not much sonic difference given the non-uniform room they're in, its just a personal thing

[Donnie27]

I like to have symmetry in my towers, so having them like that would drive me nuts. There's likely not much sonic difference given the non-uniform room they're in, its just a personal thing

True! Then again, I built them to help overcome not being in an optimal setting and they work great, not perfect but very good. 4 more people have now heard them and thought the sub was on. All have at one time or another asked the if outer and center channel speakers were on when they weren't. The sound stage is good, you have hear to believe until I can get them tested. I'd love to put them in a larger area.

Last night I experimented. I removed the mids and tweeters and shifted them to a mirror image. Almost nothing change until I played a couple of Techno type songs like Alan Parsons, Kraftwerk and Devo. In fact I started to notice anything with Synthesizers (Frankenstein, Outta Space, Superstition and etc.....) had better presence and separation, oh well, change is coming. Can't wait until my Router Buddy gets here.

[Donnie27]

Still not finished LOL! Two more of my buddies made the same comment STEVil made about symmetry. One was even a great help on speaker placement. Got the router buddy the other day and I'll only give it a 8 out of 10. The Guide Peg is too short being my main complaint.

Last night the new turret panels plates were finished (cut), pictures will come. Now I'll have to move the Speakers back out to the Garage to; Attach the panels, refinish, install the speakers and then move them back to the Den.

On another Note, I already have most of the wood, the AMP and Two Subs for the next project that's now behind schedule.

[Donnie27]

Oh boo, fraggin' who A Slip of the Screw Driver and no more Dayton Planar.

Planar-magnetic tweeter

Some loudspeaker designers use a planar-magnetic tweeter, sometimes called a quasi-ribbon. Planar magnetic tweeters are generally less expensive than true ribbon tweeters, but are not precisely equivalent as a metal foil ribbon is lighter than the diaphragm in a planar magnetic tweeter and the magnetic structures are different. Usually a thin piece of PET film or plastic with a voice coil wire running numerous times vertically on the material is used. The magnet structure is less expensive than for ribbon tweeters. The concept is most similar to that of electrostatic tweeters, with the advantage that there is no DC voltage field needed as in electrostatics, nor arcing, nor dust attraction.

So the thin piece of PET film or plastic with voices coil wire was broken by the tip of the screw driver and I couldn't fix it

[Donnie27]

The speakers on their 4" stands. The planar's are installed but since one is messed up, neither is connected. Only kind of happy with the finish. Yes I do plan to add grills later. The soft dome alone is nice but it was better with the Planar=P Luckily, the Mach 1's in the corners do wonders when all speakers are one.

I cleaned the woofers since I took this picture. The cleaned up nicely.



Now that the fishers are connected to my main rig upstairs in my computer room, even the X-Fi sounds good with it. I've played with Digital and Analog. The other DIY speakers now on the rear channel sounds as good but easily out images and or presents a better sound stage. The Phantom positions doesn't seem as solid there but not as strong. The other speakers made trying to figure out if the Center Channel was on/enabled almost impossible. Now some of the effect is still there, it is just not as Pronounced.

Music that is but strangely Games sound twice as good what the hell? With the sub off, you can hear what sounds like distant thunder so real my Daughter asked if it's raining outside in Stalker C of P.

[Donnie27]

My replacement Planar came in and the speakers performed wonderfully with them. A friend and his wife stopped by and were blown away but the pure imagery of the sound. Sound projections so strong that at lower volume levels that were barely at voice level SPL, it still can be heard through out my 2100 Sq f 2 level home. I mean really, barely above whisper levels. Yet, I can crank them loud enough so that without distortion they can shake the walls! Except for movies they make my sweet sub useless. Movies, especially those adventure type movies with explosions, there's no substitute for a good Sub.

I got another bud looking to copy them. His (and mine BTW) only concern is, over loading the Sansui Crossover that's only rated for 60 Watts. I say again for those who missed it, that's a real Old school 60 watts and not some lame PMO BS This same JVC receiver Killed one of the 130 watt Pioneer Cross Overs. So I do have to be careful with its real 100 watts per channel.

[Donnie27]

40% finished on my next project.
Dayton 240W Plate AMP
Two Pioneer Premier 10"

I'm doing a Wedge shaped sub called the "Wicked One".

http://www.decware.com/whorn.htm

There's also another way to build this to make the Throat Longer and yet another that ported has the Woofers facing out the front. When I get more of it finished, I'll start a new thread.

[STEvil]

Always wanted to make one of those.

[Donnie27]

Always wanted to make one of those.

Yes and then the only other problem is where in the hell to put it. It's almost 14" wide but 40" tall X 36" deep plus another 3"'s on the back for the Plate Amp. Will be a two man lift as well.

I'll do my best to get the other thread started with Pics tonight.

[Donnie27]

OK I'm starting to notice a trend. For my classic stuff, these speakers are great even without a Sub. Newer music sounds good but still sounds better with a Sub. These speakers can play bass but not at the volume levels of a Sub for newer music. I don't mean Ghetto Bass Hip Hop, there's stuff from Creed, Enygma and etc.. that's almost over bass-ed for my liking.

The big Wicked One just over powers everything even when turned down I got to get my Basshead buddy Phil over before I move the Wicked One out of the den and back to the Garage.

Now the lady next door complained. I've tested about 40 Subs, including good ones from Klipsch, Velodyne, Polk, JBL, JL, and many more that my house held the sound in or not much sound escaped . I can hear the WO out on the street That's without turning it up LOL!