Fan Testing Round 5 (Working Thread)Are "NANO" Bearings the new sliced bread?

[Martinm210]

If you can let me know where to send them, I'll box 'em up now.

Leaving for San Fran/San Diego on Sunday PM, my Wife can ship them next week.

You want a H speed, and M speed? I swear the M's under volt more quietly than the H's. Be cool to see for sure
[9G1212H101_2600 rpm]
[9G1212M101_1950 rpm]

2600 rpm is too much for my taste anyway.


I also have some M speed Type S [9S1212M401] They have almost identical specs to the 1850rpm Nidec GT's, be an interesting comparison, especially to me, bought quite a few.
You can actually get these easier than the GT's, although they are a bare fan.

http://db.sanyodenki.co.jp/product_d...master_id=2017

These Fan's are new, I've just tested that they work. Let me know soon, I can pin & sleeve them before I go.


Edit:Got your pm, they will be sent.

You probably have the most experience with the San Aces, so I'll let you decide which ones you'd like to see tested. I'll just keep playing around with this test bed and when a box shows up at the door, I'll start testing..

The H1011 I tested in round 2 was one of my favorite 38mm fans though, so I know San Ace makes some real quality fans.

I also seem to have fixed my anemometer vane noise problem, so I'm good to go for testing higher speeds now too. I can throw my panaflo and UK3 on there for a higher speed fan comparison as well. Thanks for letting me try those out.

[Martinm210]

Oh hell yes!

Are you sending the Sanyo Silent series "M" fans? I'd love to see those tested. I've suspected that those were the fans to beat the GT.

Martin: Thanks for all the new tests...geez, that GT of yours is a whiny brat... The odd thing is that my GT fans do not exhibit the same resonance pattern when taken through their voltage range. There is some resonance excitation, but not as high in amplitude nor as offensive (but it IS there).

I think you were right when you suggested that the fans have been optimized for 12v operation. I use mine at 9.0 - 12.0v, and there seems to be at least one small region of resonance within that range that I have to avoid. I go above or below it, but I had assumed it to be an artifact of my fan controller. It looks like you've proved it to be the fan itself.

I suppose that makes sense because my San Ace fans (109R) do not whine at all, but they do tick a bit at lower voltages (the apparently common trait of 38mm thickness fans).

Yeah, I'm suspect of the fan too, but Vapor is going to send me a GT-13, so I'll be able to try out another. I just have to think there is a really good reason why they have so many fans in the same family. Why would you need 5 fans in the same family if one worked flawlessly in all voltage ranges?

I'm also curious if you could kill that resonance issue by using a couple of drops of glue to hold the magnet retainer to the plastic blade. Most fans use a single metal ring, where the GT has a cup type. I think it's the flat side of that cup that is resonating.

Regardless, I'm not measuring huge spikes here. Per my voltage sweep test at 12", the resonating spikes were only 2-3dBA at most above normal. If 3dBA is considered barely perceptible, we're talking pretty minor amounts. I think it's just more noticeable because I'm using a better set of microphones at 100% gain in a really quiet area, then you turn up the volume of your headphones and we have multiple amplifications going on. In real world use where there is a good amount of background noise, it's going to be pretty hard to hear that sort of detail.

[MagisD]

I don't know much about it but for your timed steady voltage tuneing would a aquaero work i heard you can run scripts etc.

Just an idea that popped in my head.

Sent from my X10a using Tapatalk

[Martinm210]

If I can figure out a mechanical way, I'll look into that..thanks!

FYI, finally got around to cutting out a comparison video. After compiling and reviewing further, I'd probably shift around some of the rankings though. I'll let you decide.

This might be a little easier to review than multiple single videos..

First one to name the song at the end gets to pick the next one..

COMPARISON VIDEO LINK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T98Tmh57Eso

[Hondacity]

not sure what that song was...lol

dang that ap15 @ 40cfm is noisy compared to the two...it hurtz my ears....

i'll include 1 more samples with the san ace silent

[Martinm210]

not sure what that song was...lol

dang that ap15 @ 40cfm is noisy compared to the two...it hurtz my ears....

i'll include 1 more samples with the san ace silent

Nobody gets the song at the end Man, I used to almost sprint home in my grade school days just so I wouldn't miss an episode. There's something about the a fast car and short shorts that infects a growing mind..

The San Ace would be awesome. I bought two new testing tools this evening. A new hotwire Extech anemometer and an ART sound level meter. Should mean better testing in the near future. The old mastech meter has got to go, and so does the noise from the vane probe. The sound meter is nothing too special, but it's A weighted down to 30 and I like having two sound meters for reference. This will give me the Zoom H1 dual mics + software based dBA plus the ART meter. The anemometer on the other hand is a really nice meter, pretty high end instrument and should help with range (lower minimum flow), also no moving parts so it silent.

[Hondacity]

oh oh oh ..i wanna see that setup....

two vane probes.....are noise in harmony when i used them both LOL

pics please

[Martinm210]

oh oh oh ..i wanna see that setup....

two vane probes.....are noise in harmony when i used them both LOL

pics please

It'll be a couple of weeks before they ship here, but here is the anemometer. It's a new to me, but used "Hot Wire" type, no vane...no noise..also has RS-232 logging capabilities..



Sound meter is nothing too special, but getting rid of the unweighted Mastech and it is at least a brand name with A weighting capabilities.

While I still plan to use the Zoom plus software, I thought it would be good to keep a secondary noise level meter for cross reference.


Can't wait till they come...I'm excited to have new and better testing tools.

[Waterlogged]

Is that "Good ol Boys" ("Dukes of Hazard" theme) by Waylon Jennings?

[Martinm210]

Is that "Good ol Boys" ("Dukes of Hazard" theme) by Waylon Jennings?

You are the winner!

I knew there had to be another fan around..the midi version is a bit harder to figure out, but it was obvious to me...

What ever happened to making shows about fast cars and short shorts...just not the same anymore..

Taking midi requests for the next fan round

[headala]

You are the winner!

I knew there had to be another fan around..the midi version is a bit harder to figure out, but it was obvious to me...

What ever happened to making shows about fast cars and short shorts...just not the same anymore..

And the moonshine, for goodness' sake don't forget about the moonshine.

[Hondacity]

hot wire looks like its only air velocity? what about total volume? and also fans have dead spots...or weak spots...

[Martinm210]

Ahh yes the moonshine, nothing like some home brew..

Yes this one only reads velocity, but the old one measured the same way. Only difference is the old one you could manually enter a duct area and it automatically converted velocity to flow. They are both doing the same thing though. The hot wire just measures velocity based on the air speed cooling a hot wire, where the vane probe measures the rpm of a vane turning which also measures velocity. Flow is just a function of the duct area where the probe is. Its a bit more complex because velocity is not constant across the area, but the old meter didn't account for that either. I can calculate flow with this new one, its just not going to calculate it for me. More importantly it doesn't really matter if we are just comparing relative performance between fans...all I need to do is fix the probe in one consistent spot..more velocity is more flow.

As far as calibration, I never worried to much about the past test, I've only been concerned with relative accuracy of the same round. I'll run a couple of tests with the new tools when I get them. I'm pretty sure my old air flow numbers were arbitralily high.

The main thing I need to watch for and test for is repeatability and relative accuracy. When I get to a point where I feel that's good enough, then I'll pay more attention to maybe correcting up for absolute accuracy. As with most testing, unless your going to spend a lot of money calibrating and recalibrating meters on a regular basis, your results are generally only good for relative comparisons. I notice the old anemometer would change some depending on warm up time. Viscocity of the grease in the bearings changes with temperature. I shouldn't have that problem with the hot wire..

[Church]

Hot wire anemometers@wiki: ".. while extremely delicate .." - so probably it has things of it's own one should take care of for precise & repeatable readings. Of course, no bearing issues this time
As it's measuring how much heated wire gets cooled by bypassing airflow, i'm guessing it should be cleaned up before each use?

[Martinm210]

And the moonshine, for goodness' sake don't forget about the moonshine.

hot wire looks like its only air velocity? what about total volume? and also fans have dead spots...or weak spots...

Hot wire anemometers@wiki: ".. while extremely delicate .." - so probably it has things of it's own one should take care of for precise & repeatable readings. Of course, no bearing issues this time
As it's measuring how much heated wire gets cooled by bypassing airflow, i'm guessing it should be cleaned up before each use?

Yeah, I guess they are sensetive to dust, but I don't figure I'll have the same sort of dust problem you would have dipping it in an HVAC system that's generally pretty dirty. I'll run a few repeatability type tests with this and the old meter before running with it. You do have to reset the temperature before each use, but I think it should have more benefits than negatives over a vane system. I'm just not very satisfied with the vane system, and hoping this is better. Never know until you try it, and I got a really god deal I couldn't pass on..

[Hondacity]

hey boss i got the fan

GT beater?

not sure about the bearing configuration...but its gliding like a GT....

do you have the ap14?

[Martinm210]

hey boss i got the fan

GT beater?

not sure about the bearing configuration...but its gliding like a GT....

do you have the ap14?

Awesome!

No, just the 15, but Vapor said he's sending a 13 later.

FYI, I just got my "Parts or Repair" Omega HH-30, I bought it for $25 plus shipping figuring I might get lucky and fix it.

Opened it up and wiggled the processor chips, voila! It works just fine.

This is a nice meter, can read down to 35fpm at 1% accuracy.

Not a bad buy, got a $550 anemometer for $25!!!

Didn't think I could actually fix it, now I'll be swimming in anemometers...good ones too..

Happy

[Hondacity]

25$ NICE!!!

that looks better than my extech lol

i'll send the ap14 when i get it...i'll send the "fan" tomorrow...interstate should be fast delivery

[Martinm210]

Awesome, would be great to see more of the GT family in more detail and look forward to "THE FAN"...

[Hondacity]

i was reluctant to order two....i only ordered one....i'll order number 2 later on....so you can dismantle one..and look at the windings

edit...i see more pics...very sharp...that case looks nice... we're still saving up for the tokina for that t2i

[Vapor]

Holy crap, an Omega HH-30 for $25 is insane. Final shipment gets in tomorrow then I can send out your goodie basket

[Martinm210]

i was reluctant to order two....i only ordered one....i'll order number 2 later on....so you can dismantle one..and look at the windings

edit...i see more pics...very sharp...that case looks nice... we're still saving up for the tokina for that t2i

Nice!

Yeah, I like the meter, seems to be very precise, and REALLY sensitive. I can barely blow on it from several feet away and it's off and reading. Quickly mounted it and it's getting good solid velocity readings on the AP-15 clear down at 4V where the old meter really couldn't read anything less than 6V...big improvement in sensitivity.

Always up for a good taking apart too.

[Martinm210]

Holy crap, an Omega HH-30 for $25 is insane. Final shipment gets in tomorrow then I can send out your goodie basket

Toys!!!

[Church]

BTW, Martin: have you experimented how much "airflow straightening" tubes impact airflow? Afterall, it's like adding another rad in airflow path (though with very low FPI of course, remembering you saying that tubes used were of 1"ID). Of course those are needed to not get very skewed results with using vane type anemometers (as outgoing airflow from fan goes spiral-turned (if that's right term?), that might extra rise anemometers vane turning speed/cfm readings), but imho you might experiment how readings are impacted with varying tube diameter/length, checking how well they straighten up airflow and such.
Afterall, builtin flow straightener in some fans (eg. ST air penetrator ones) or nexus's beamair airguide is not that thick, but seems doing it's job nevertheless. I'm guessing to see how good flow gets straigtened is best seen by taking that idea from few videos of these - by using smoke. Though one will need to get first transparent tube for fan test chamber
EDIT
Hmm .. i'm wondering if impact of not straightened spiral turned flow probably can be seen/measured from taking readings 2 times with vane type anemometer .. by simple turning anemometer 180deg to reverse it's turning direction, and counting difference? Hmm, or vane turning speed will be increased in both directions just with positive or negative readings? :/

[Martinm210]

I'm not sure, but if I had a good manometer, I could probably start doing some air pressure drop type test. I just haven't made that a priority, I would need something like the Dwyer 000 with .001" resolution. I did purposely use the large 1" tubes for that reason. 1" thin walled tubes spread out over an 8" ID chamber is really low though, and I don't think it's anywhere near as restrictive as a radiator.

I am planning to try some open air type testing again though and I will try some work around calibrating or calculating flow more accurately.

The flow spreaders are really there for push/pull or open air type testing.

Well see, but I may try a three scenario test next round when I get the parts assembled:
1 Case fan or open air (least resttriction)
2 RS120 rad ( low restriction rad)
3 GTX120 rad ( high restriction rad)

I think it would be interesting to see them all tested on the same bench and see changes in ranking..or not.
I may have a sponsor for the GTX..

Lots of ideas floating around, just takes time and tools..