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Thread: Fan Testing Round 5 (Working Thread)Are "NANO" Bearings the new sliced bread?

  1. #1
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    Fan Testing Round 5 (Working Thread)Are "NANO" Bearings the new sliced bread?

    So...I'm warming up to test round 5, with three new additions sponsored by another community member vhaarr...thanks!
    Also a special thanks to Hondacity for the GT I'll be using as a baseline.


    The latest contenders:


    The Gelid and Artic Cooling fans both sport a more pressure oriented 9 blade design, while the Noise Blocker uses a more standard 7 blade option.

    As far as bearings go, the Gelid uses a "Nanoflux" bearing. The noise blocker is using what they call a "NB Nano-SLI" bearing.
    It seems... the word "NANO" is becoming the standard Buzz word and not just for coolants....

    The half price Coolermaster is sporting a "Long Life Sleeve" bearing, so I'm curious to see if we're paying an extra $10 for the word or if there are real noise benefits to the higher end bearings..we will soon see..

    I may also run a few other fans I have collecting, namely the Yate medium with curved blades since it performs so well for the price, but also the Zalman ZM-F3 since I believe it edges out the yate and fitting of the $10 category.

    I finished the new Test Chamber this evening, and just starting in on some anemometer calibration. Here is a quick summary of changes all in an effort to deaden any possible test rig induced noises plus improve the anemometer readings through flow straightening and volume:

    • Heavy Walled 8" PVC structure
    • 21" Overall Length
    • Flow Spreader built using 1" ID ABS pipe x 4" length, Chamfered
    • Anemometer vane probe now fixed over a reduced 3.5" ID circular cross section (Better Low CFM response)
    • Rad Board Template is interchangable for 140mm fan compatibility or other options
    • 4X Larger Internal Volume (1000+cubic inches vs 250) for more stabilized flow
    • Heavy Duty Rad Board(3/4" Hardwood Plywood) for reducing any resonance




    I'm also a bit on the fence about testing with or without a gasket..

    Would you guys prefer to see the testing occur with a vibration isolation gasket or not?

    I have a spare TFC noise absorber I had in the drawer I can make use of easily enough...??

    Should have time to make the video runs this weekend I think..

    Also let me know of any particulars you'd like to see..
    Cheers!
    Martin

    Update 10-8.
    Made some more changes to the sound chamber, and started the unboxing, figured I'd share some pictures as testing gets started:

    Coolermaster






    Gelid






    Noiseblocker









    So far they are all nice fans, but I'm most impressed with the Noiseblocker gasket/grommet system, it's really nice (completely isolates the screw) and a tight custom fit to this fan for case fan type installs. I also like the modular sleeved wire lengths to pick from, this is all a step above most fans regarding accessories.


    UPDATE 8-10-10
    A few of the videos are ready for your review:

    INDIVIDUAL VIDEOS

    R5 Fan Test Cooler Master R4 2000RPM R4-C2R-20AC-GP DF1202512RFUNCF
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRmC5NnZH1U

    R5 Fan Test Gelid FN-FW12-15-B Wing 12 1500RPM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEr74q-HbBg

    R5 Fan Test Noise Blocker PL-2 1400 RPM Black Silent Pro Fan
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywXYTC8dL9k

    R5 Fan Test Servo Nidec (Scythe) Gentle Typhoon AP-15 1850RPM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm6jlrqifQE

    R5 Fan Test Yate Loon D12SM12 Curved Blade Black 1650RPM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiN1p8iX5EA

    R5 Fan Test Zalman ZM-F3 1800RPM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBKa9SXliWk

    R5 Fan Test Noctua NF-P12 1300RPM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_27oS9kO4I

    R5 Fan Test Modified Silverstone AP121 1500RPM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-iHY4q05z8

    R5 Fan Test Push + Push Yate Loon D12SM12 Curved Blade 2X fans
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkcDp2bf640

    R5 Fan Test Push + Pull Yate Loon D12SM12 Curved Blade 2X fans
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wsSSMKHY1s

    COMPARISON NOISE LEVEL VS CFM CHARTS



    COMPARISON VIDEO LINK
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T98Tmh57Eso
    Last edited by Martinm210; 10-17-2010 at 07:28 PM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martinm210 View Post
    [B][U]Would you guys prefer to see the testing occur with a vibration isolation gasket or not?
    The last test you did was without right? If its possible to compare these tests with them id say go without.

    But it would be cool to see how much a gasket actually does.

    Also, big thumbs up for the time you put down into these tests!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brodholm View Post
    The last test you did was without right? If its possible to compare these tests with them id say go without.

    But it would be cool to see how much a gasket actually does.
    Yes, all of the past were without a gasket, but this is all new so you won't be able to compare unless I do a separate with vs. without test..

    Perhaps run the GT without gasket and then with gasket first as a quick comparison??

    I'm game, or if you want a different fan..that's cool too...
    Last edited by Martinm210; 10-07-2010 at 11:23 PM.

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    Push+pull of Yates maybe?

    Really like to see how $10 of Yates would compare to the others fans out there. Or revisit the push+pull Noctuas, the Noctua P12 was close enough to the Yate in your Round 3 tests.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vapor View Post
    Push+pull of Yates maybe?

    Really like to see how $10 of Yates would compare to the others fans out there. Or revisit the push+pull Noctuas, the Noctua P12 was close enough to the Yate in your Round 3 tests.
    OK..maybe try a push/pull yate and push/pull noctua test as part of the package. The new flow spreader should do better with the anemometer this time and this would be a good test for that.

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    FYI,
    I just found a REALLY REALLY good program for sound analysis. This gives you the ability to not only run real time spectrum analysis, but also to run one real time with A-weighting or other weighting factors. In addition it allows for things like microphone calibration, dbA levels over time, various averaging.

    This should help a lot...here are some features:
    http://www.ymec.com/products/app/ra2.htm

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    wow i love that muffler thingy..lol

    best case scenario of course..use the gaskets


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    the new flow chamber looks good. was thinking of picking up the idea of flow straightening in my setup to as i have enough room between the fan and the heatsink of my gtx295, but the 1000 or so straws glued together as used by x-bit seemed a bit too much work to me.
    simply using a smaller amount of larger diameter tubes is a great idea! like this!

    anyway, still looking for a test of two fans on the same side of the rad e.g. rad-fan-fan in either push-push or pull-pull configuration. push-push is what i plan to use. although i'm currently using sflex-g, a comparison with the weaker p12 would be fine. have some of them lying around here ...

    in the moment i'm more focused on airflow than noise. almost every 120mm fan is far more silent than the stock cooler on the gtx295.
    Last edited by fgw; 10-07-2010 at 12:43 AM.
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    Sweet martin, i actually have geilds but in green. There good but ramp up in noise really fast after 1100-1200 rpm. Double check the blades they have a tendency to come lose at a hard knock.

    As far as the push push or pull pull goes its useless, I'm pretty sure martin debunked it a couple of years ago that's why you never see it you need them spread out to see any benifit besides chopped air
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    Martin any chance of testing the Akasa AK-FN058 Apache Black, quite a few people I've spoken to rave about them as radiator fans.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biffa View Post
    Martin any chance of testing the Akasa AK-FN058 Apache Black, quite a few people I've spoken to rave about them as radiator fans.
    Sure, if you want to sponsor me the fan. I'll contribute my time and testing tools if you contribute the fan..

    My wife already gives me enough funny looks taking over a corner of our walk in closet for the test setup..I'd be in trouble buying a pile of single fans out of pocket.

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    Did you ever get around to dremeling that ap-121 I sponsored?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MagisD View Post
    Did you ever get around to dremeling that ap-121 I sponsored?

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    I could try that, but which fins should I cut??

    They are spaced fairly close near the hub, so I'm thinking you probably need to leave at least 3 fins per arm, so leave 6 total??
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    Hey Martin,

    I dig the chamber. Why did you design it that way? (this is not a loaded question - just a curiosity). Specifically, why 21", why the straighteners and specific placement?

    Also, without the gasket... Is the radiator hard mounted to the chamber? Have you noticed any different sound charastics associated with using the chamber? Does the radiator have water in it?

    I'm interested in that Gelid also. It's a good looking fan with removable blades and I love that they attempted winglets...
    Last edited by meanmoe; 10-07-2010 at 07:49 PM.
    upgrading...

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    I have no idea.i just wanted to see somebody take a dremel to that thing. Its been irritating me since they announced it. But keep it stock if it comes in handy: -)

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    Quote Originally Posted by meanmoe View Post
    Hey Martin,

    I dig the chamber. Why did you design it that way? (this is not a loaded question - just a curiosity). Specifically, why 21", why the straighteners and specific placement?

    Also, without the gasket... Is the radiator hard mounted to the chamber? Have you noticed any different sound charastics associated with using the chamber? Does the radiator have water in it?

    I'm interested in that Gelid also. It's a good looking fan with removable blades and I love that they attempted winglets...
    I was looking for four things. Large size, flow straightener, more mass/rigidity, and 140mm fan testing compatibility.

    I figure the larger size and sectional area, the slower the velocity and better chance at smoothing out the air flow prior to it getting to the anemometer. My noctual push/pull test gave strange results and I believe part of that was simply the air flow being too disturbed and going around the anemometer. That V1 chamber was really small, just big enough to mount the rad with about 1' before hitting the anemometer vane, so the air was pretty messy..more volume should mean better/more consistent CFM measurement. The 21" was simply the length left after cutting the bell off of the piece I found at the pipe yard..

    The flow spreader was somewhat arbitrary, I just knew I wanted to try one some place between the fan/rad location and the anemometer but I also didn't want to create much restriction as I know it has a huge impact to the result.....I like the xbit straw idea, but didn't want to make it that restrictive. I pushed it slightly toward the front, so I can have an opportunity to try some different things with the anemometer vane in the future...possibly building some sort of cone shaped smoother transition. Unfortunately the vane is pretty low quality, so I can't reduce all the way down to just the vane section or it spins too fast and starts making some noise. A larger van anemometer would be ideal, but I haven't found one with a remote probe like this. A hotwire variety would also be good, but they don't come cheap either, so I'm making do with what I have for now..

    Third was to build a chamber that is fairly rigid to ensure some of the odd harmonics are not coming from the chamber itself. The GT seemed to be exhibit some amplified harmonics, so this was an attempt to make the chamber more solid to ensure that's not the problem. The heavy walled PVC, flow spreaders and 3/4" plywood should all help ensure there is less chance of vibration or odd harmonic going on throughout the test rig.

    Fourth was having a chamber large enough to test 140mm fans. I made the front plate removable so I can make multiple templates for testing different setups.I might make one for open fan testing or whatever...it's modular that way now.

    And YES, the radiator is now filled with water, stupid mistake on my part earlier, but it's filled now to more accurately represent the real world.

    I'm also working on soldering up a pair of multimeters so I capture both voltage and amperage at the same time, and I'm thinking about changing where I setup my H1 recorder, perhaps on the same axis as the fan 2' or so away. I think at the angle I could still be getting some air movement from the fan, where in line it should be fairly clean. Also considering tossing out the Mastech dB meter since I'm pretty sure now it's not frequency weighted in any way, the new software I found will weight the results through the H1 which is a much better microphone anyhow...and two microphones at that. We'll see, I'm not set on any standards yet, but I'm slowly figuring it out..
    Last edited by Martinm210; 10-07-2010 at 08:14 PM.

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    Nano... Wow wonder if I told my Wife I got Nano surgery to make it better.

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    FYI, did a quick 12V run with the gasket. Ran the noise profiles with A-weighting average over 4 seconds and really didn't measure any noise benefit. It sealed slightly better giving maybe 1CFM better flow, but the noise was not better. I think some of these gaskets have a tendency to hang over just a bit blocking air flow around the perimeter. You'd probably have to closely measure and cut any excess off for them to be their best. But...considering this is different for every fan, I'd just assume test without the gasket.
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    If we are speaking of what else can be done with testing methodology .. i have another ace in my sleeves that can double required testing time/work

    - how about testing both vertical and horizontal fan mounting positions. After all, not only LC rads often get mounted this way, but same can be attributed also to PSU fans. I recall reading posts that sounds like these "My uber mega fan started sound much worse once i mounted it horizontally, no problems when vertically, had to turn down to much lower speed to keep noise in check". It might add lot of extra advantage to already winning GTs with their ball bearings though

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    Well that's interesting. Seems my investing in silicone gaskets for my rad fans was a complete waste of money - it seemed so logical at the time
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    Yeah the vertcal test would be interesting, but I'm not quite sure how I could test both orientations that would be comparable...hmmm

    The gasket test also surprised me...I video recorded the whole test..just ran the noise profile as a quicky..perhaps I should look more closely at vibration type oddities. I also tried testing with the microphones in line with the fan hub axis which I think picks up more wind type noises through the chamber. I may have to try some experiments around microphone placement too.
    Last edited by Martinm210; 10-08-2010 at 06:18 AM.

  22. #22
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    Interesting with the gasket. I think it have a better effect if it is on a thin aluminum chassis than on a rad that is pretty solid.

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    I'm not surprised one bit by the lack luster performance of the gasket, that's because your still hard mounting the fan/rad/whatever to the case. For isolation to actually take place, you need to remove metal/hard plastic to metal/hard plastic contact which doesn't happen with those gaskets, you need actual grommets. Grommets of any kind will suffice if your in a pinch but, actual anti vibe grommets are the best.

    Now, having said that, I do use gaskets for just that, a gasket.
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    I bought 8 Wing 12's on sale @ ~11 or 12 $CDN, when I couldn't find a Canadian source with 1850GT's in stock (NCIX lists them for $20.38).

    I wondered how the two would compare...

    I have the feeling the GT's are better, but how much and under which circumstances.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterlogged View Post
    I'm not surprised one bit by the lack luster performance of the gasket, that's because your still hard mounting the fan/rad/whatever to the case. For isolation to actually take place, you need to remove metal/hard plastic to metal/hard plastic contact which doesn't happen with those gaskets, you need actual grommets. Grommets of any kind will suffice if your in a pinch but, actual anti vibe grommets are the best.

    Now, having said that, I do use gaskets for just that, a gasket.
    Good call..I should try it with grommets..I will stop by the hardware store and get a few.

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