Lamptron Liquid Cooling Hose Clamps *New product*

[BoxGods]

If this was the first time Lamptron had ripped of designs from the modding community then they would get the benefit of the doubt...if your in discussions with the designer and he does not agree with your terms that does NOT mean it is then OK to rock his designs. No there is no legal reason you can't...just moral decency and basic ethics. The good news is companies that have poor ethics always fade away sooner or later.

Rocky--the drawings you sent for that collar lack the top dimension (thickness for the top section) please send me that via email ASAP please.

[meanmoe]

first off lamptron tried to buy the design from me which i agreed on then heard nothing from them, second i tried to sell them to you guys and no one wanted to buy them.

wow man... that's business I guess.

I'll vote no with my credit card...


EDIT: there's a good lesson here though - don't sit on your hands or someone else will steal your cookies.

[Darth_Penguin]

EDIT: there's a good lesson here though - don't sit on your hands or someone else will steal your cookies.

nobody steals my cookies... ever. (I like cookies a lot)

[BoxGods]

wow man... that's business I guess.

I'll vote no with my credit card...


EDIT: there's a good lesson here though - don't sit on your hands or someone else will steal your cookies.

I am a realist so I know that this happens. The thing with ethics is that dishonest people try to make things complicated to obscure dishonest or unethical actions. Politicians obviously excel at this. The best ethical choice is seldom really difficult. When you see a big post explaining why the guy getting ripped off is at fault that is really the same thing as a 4 or 5 year old who has been caught stealing by his peers trying to cover up his embarrassment with hollow justifications because he gave in to his baser instincts of greed and now is feeling a bit of remorse.

The reality is that Rocky negotiated with lamptron in good faith but they did not like his terms so they just cut him out of the equation. Unethical behavior because it places greed above doing the right thing. I know two other companies that were interested in manufacturing the clamps that contacted him, but he was ethical and said he was in negotiations with Lamptron. I arranged a manufacturing quote for one of the companies so they could make him an offer. They took the high ground and wished him luck with Lamptron, choosing NOT to go into production even though some time was spent/invested. Is Rockey a genius businessman who makes the perfect choice in every situation and does that instantly? No. He is a kid in school who happens to be a gifted designer and a really decent guy who will never say no when somebody asks for help. To me, the fact that he is NOT an experienced businessman means Lamptron should have been extra careful and mentored if possible, and no, teaching him a "lesson" by knocking off his design is not the type of mentoring I was referring to lol. If you can out maneuver a smart guy in a business deal then go for it, but kids, the mentally challenged, and little old ladies just makes you a...

The ability to justify morally corrupt behavior in the per suite of profit is why Wall street is driving the US off a cliff. When your in doubt, just ask yourself the obvious question. Would I like it if somebody did this to me? If you wouldn't like it then you shouldn't do it. Kindergarten stuff.

[Aedubber]

BoxGods > ALL quotes

[iandh]

I am a realist so I know that this happens. The thing with ethics is that dishonest people try to make things complicated to obscure dishonest or unethical actions. Politicians obviously excel at this. The best ethical choice is seldom really difficult. When you see a big post explaining why the guy getting ripped off is at fault that is really the same thing as a 4 or 5 year old who has been caught stealing by his peers trying to cover up his embarrassment with hollow justifications because he gave in to his baser instincts of greed and now is feeling a bit of remorse.

I'm not sure who you're aiming the second half of your comment at.

To be perfectly honest, Rocky is at fault to some degree. Not for his design being copied, but for it not selling.

I've gotten yet ANOTHER private message just an hour ago, an individual saying that they had attempted to contact Rocky very recently to no avail, and wondering if they could buy any clamps direct from me. I got another one quite recently as well, before this thread.

To tell you the truth, I got "why won't Rocky respond" PM's often enough that it became slighty annoying for a short time, until they died down. I still get at least one question about the clamps every few weeks.

So, I get all these communications from people saying they tried to buy clamps from Rocky and he completely ignored them, and then Rocky comes here and posts saying that he was the one that was blown off by the customers.

Frankly, I just don't know what to make of it at this point.

The reality is that Rocky negotiated with lamptron in good faith but they did not like his terms so they just cut him out of the equation. Unethical behavior because it places greed above doing the right thing. I know two other companies that were interested in manufacturing the clamps that contacted him, but he was ethical and said he was in negotiations with Lamptron. I arranged a manufacturing quote for one of the companies so they could make him an offer. They took the high ground and wished him luck with Lamptron, choosing NOT to go into production even though some time was spent/invested. Is Rockey a genius businessman who makes the perfect choice in every situation and does that instantly? No. He is a kid in school who happens to be a gifted designer and a really decent guy who will never say no when somebody asks for help. To me, the fact that he is NOT an experienced businessman means Lamptron should have been extra careful and mentored if possible, and no, teaching him a "lesson" by knocking off his design is not the type of mentoring I was referring to lol. If you can out maneuver a smart guy in a business deal then go for it, but kids, the mentally challenged, and little old ladies just makes you a...

All things set aside, I'm one of the very few people who knows EXACTLY what Rocky paid for these clamps, and what he was asking people to pay for them vs. production cost is at least twice as high, and maybe 3 times higher than what I would consider a normal profit margin.

If I recall correctly, I advised him of this early on, gave him a good suggested retail price, and advised him that losing some of his profit to let resellers do the distribution work for him, would be in his best interest as far as this product is concerned. Perhaps that "mentoring" you speak of.

He chose not to take my advice, tried to make more money than was actually in the product, and ended up paying for it.

I'm not arguing that Rocky is a nice guy... but I still wish he would have listened to me, because chances are, this all would have ended up a lot different.

Not all my products are big moneymakers, but NONE have failed to profit. I really know what the hell I'm doing. I'm not saying I'm perfect, I just have a really good sense for things... and when I gave Rocky the suggestions I did, I KNEW that was what needed to happen for these to work.

The ability to justify morally corrupt behavior in the per suite of profit is why Wall street is driving the US off a cliff. When your in doubt, just ask yourself the obvious question. Would I like it if somebody did this to me? If you wouldn't like it then you shouldn't do it. Kindergarten stuff.

Trust me, I won't take my eye off the ball for one second as far as Lamptron's actions are concerned... on the other hand, I personally made some calls regarding final dimensions and finalization of the design, and you don't see me complaining about my work being stolen.

If you snooze, you lose.

Frankly, I think Lamptron should have just made the damn things. Hose clamps are no more unique than compression fittings. Going to Rocky and then backing out was where they screwed up.

Of course, if what he wanted for compensation was in line with the margins he was originally expecting, I don't blame them one bit.



edit: ( To Rocky, I'm not trying to attack you here man, I'm just saying that I've felt the whole time that you had unrealistic expectations as far as the profit you'd make on these. The problem is I don't know if you ever realized the expectations were unrealistic.)

[BoxGods]

I love it when a person says "To be perfectly honest". Does that mean that normally your not honest? Or not perfectly honest?

Like I said...blame the guy that got ripped off and make a big smoke screen to assuage any guilt...whatever helps you sleep at night.

To be "perfectly candid", I don't know you from Adam--you might be a very morally upright person...all I know for sure is that Rocky deserved better.

Last thing I have to say on the subject.

[meanmoe]

I'm a fan of the golden rule also... but soon after kindergarten we learn that we're no longer in kindergarten...



When someone says "to be perfectly honest", it typically means that they're going to tell you something that you won't necessarily like but with an emphasis on the sincerity of what they're sharing.... Kindergarten stuff.

[Aedubber]

So how about them clamps !! This thread might get locked soon as it seems to be going in a bad direction guys :/

[meanmoe]

lol.... they look good

[DarthBeavis]

I designed a couple of my own hose clamps:

[mlwood37]

I designed a couple of my own hose clamps:

To be honest mate the cable in picture one doesn't look long enough and may get in the way of the "Ram" .........

Mind you as well if the diameter is to small of the tubing i think these may not stay in place and could lead to some serious leakage ...

this could make a rite mess and may blow a few components ... not that, that is a bad thing ...

[DarthBeavis]

To be honest mate the cable in picture one doesn't look long enough and may get in the way of the "Ram" .........

I did that on purpose so if someone steals my design they have a faulty product. The final spec is wireless

[Aedubber]

LMAOOO.... Nice, can i order one of these or will it be on back order for 2 months ?

[mlwood37]

I did that on purpose so if someone steals my design they have a faulty product. The final spec is wireless

cool ill order 50x please but please do respond to your PM's so i can actually buy them !!!!! PMSL

[meanmoe]

Can you incorporate PWM?

[BoxGods]

what if we want a "butcher" pink?

[evil-98]

let me just say at time i was very young and had just turned 18, i really only knew very little of what i was getting into. so i was easily persuaded and jerked around by many. for me to be able to manage everything that was going on was extremely difficult and i commend those who can. All i wanted was to help innovate as a designer, it was never about the money. I might have dropped the ball many times on my part but i honestly gave it a good try. for those i have missed PMs, email etc im sorry. im 21 now and have a million other things to worry about but i am much more mature then what i was 2+ years ago.

@gene, thanks for everything as always

@ianh, no hard feelings, i have to see it from everyones perspective to truely understand

[charles_h]

Rocky, you had a very positive influence on me when I joined the Community - you were also among the first to make me feel welcome here. Your projects were exciting and wonderfully presented, and you inspired and motivated me with your enthusiastic attitude and constructive contributions. I felt the Community lost a special person when you withdrew, I hope you find the desire to one day return and resume where you left off - only that much wiser from your experiences.

For what it's worth, I believe you're a class act and I'm grateful for having met you.

[rehpyc]

I actually noticed you live in SoCAL, Evil, and figured I'd maybe pick up some clamps from you in person. But, with seeing from your link that the're $6.50 a piece.. there's simply no good reason why at that price I would choose those over compression fittings.

[iandh]

let me just say at time i was very young and had just turned 18, i really only knew very little of what i was getting into. so i was easily persuaded and jerked around by many. for me to be able to manage everything that was going on was extremely difficult and i commend those who can. All i wanted was to help innovate as a designer, it was never about the money. I might have dropped the ball many times on my part but i honestly gave it a good try. for those i have missed PMs, email etc im sorry. im 21 now and have a million other things to worry about but i am much more mature then what i was 2+ years ago.

@gene, thanks for everything as always

@ianh, no hard feelings, i have to see it from everyones perspective to truely understand

Absolutely not.

I still think you're a great guy. Things like pricing and such come easier to me because I was in manufacturing for 10 year prior to this hobby, and then another 4 in the hobby.

I think you did pretty good considering my 14 years of manufacturing experience vs. your 1st product.

I love it when a person says "To be perfectly honest". Does that mean that normally your not honest? Or not perfectly honest?

Like I said...blame the guy that got ripped off and make a big smoke screen to assuage any guilt...whatever helps you sleep at night.

To be "perfectly candid", I don't know you from Adam--you might be a very morally upright person...all I know for sure is that Rocky deserved better.

Last thing I have to say on the subject.

Ah, so you were directing that comment at me.

"To be perfectly honest" means I'm not sugar-coating anything, and I wasn't. I could be nice and say "oh, poor Rocky, victim of the system" to be nice, but that would be complete and absolute BS.

There is no smoke screen here, besides the one you're creating by drawing my factual account of the situation into question.

I don't know you from Adam either, so perhaps you shouldn't have come after me in your previous comment, and I wouldn't have been forced to defend myself by posting more of the story here.

I never once said Rocky is a bad guy... I said we can't go throwing blame around everywhere without including him, but you kept pushing the victim card, and I was forced to respond to keep the story straight.

[BoxGods]

Well, to be honest, yes that dress DOES make you look fat =)

[iandh]

Well, to be honest, yes that dress DOES make you look fat =)

Shall we call it water under the bridge?

I think you're a cool guy... any friend of DB's (even the sheep) is a friend of mine.

I think evil is a good guy too. I didn't really have the intention of trashing him, but that is pretty much what I ended up doing. I assure you it wasn't the intention I had.

[meanmoe]

I don't think you trashed evil at all. You put out a plausible reason why Lamptron is releasing evil-like clamps without evil. It's a good lesson for anyone trying to get products produced and it clears up some of the speculation associated with the possible ripping off of a design.

Just like what evil found out the hard way, you can't sell a clamp for $6.50. I'm sure Lamptron knows this.

Here's a quote from Evil's thread from WL:

You don't have access to the FS section yet but there is a thread there and you can't put anything up there unless you actually have it.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/Forums/...d.php?t=225021

Personally, I think evil should have taken the same path iandh did and sold them to retailers instead of doing the heavy lifting of personal sales himself. I think he got totally put off by all the ppl that went gaga over the renders and said they would buy them if he made them, only to have many of those same ppl back out when they saw the actual price.

Evil's still look better.

[defect9]

if the clamps were $2 or $3 each, I'd buy a small fistfull (10), but I couldn't justify it at $6.50 each. Oversized stubby black barbs with undersized hose works just fine.