New Swiftech H20-X20 Edge cooling kits

[gabe]

Now that's something truly unique and promising for a long time.

Just a few questions if you don't mind?

1. What kind of flow rate can we expect at the lowest pump speed for both 220 and 320 kits?


2. Can the radiator and pump operate vertically when mounted sideway like the MCR320 in the above render?

3. Perhaps powering the pump from a 4-pin molex, while routing PWM and RPM signals to the mobo header would be a more conservative approach? After all, a MCP355 draws up to 18W peak power.

4. Are the fill ports using standard thread sizes?

Phil

1. FLOW RATES: Sorry, this hasn't been done. email stephen@swiftech.com if you need more information

2. ORIENTATIONS: the pic below should answer your question. You can also download the install guide here



3. this is what were' doing.

4. yes, G1/4

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm does this 2 kits compete with H70 / ALC ???

no; these products are in a different league

3. MCP350 and MCP355 already have their power wires on a 4-pin molex connector and the tach wire on a separate 3-pin connector. They probably replaced the 3-pin by a PWM style 4-pin and kept the PSU style 4-pin molex for the power wires.

4. I think Swiftech said they were switching all their PG11 fill port to G1/4, probably the case here.

correct on both counts

Philwong, in regards to question number 1, at 1300RPM (0% PWM duty, a.k.a., minimum speed), the MPC35X/DDC3.25 should provide less pumping power than a D5 at setting 1.

Since we haven't done the curve of the 35X at minimum speed, it is really impossible to provide a scientifically correct answer. Let's wait for the curves before we speculate.

[Philwong]

Gabe, why not install another fill port for scenario *3 on top of the rez under that orientation?

Phil

[Vapor]

Since we haven't done the curve of the 35X at minimum speed, it is really impossible to provide a scientifically correct answer. Let's wait for the curves before we speculate.

Pressure scales with square of the RPM and flow scales linearly with RPM. Get a curve at any RPM and you can calculate a curve at any other RPM and it'll be really, really close to actual

D5 P5 (4800RPM): max head in your MCP655 tests is ~4.05 mH2O, max flow is ~20.7 L/min

D5 P1 (1800RPM): max head in your MCP655 tests is ~.58 mH2O, max flow is ~8.8 L/min

Theoretical D5 P1 (1800RPM) based on scaling from above: max head is ~.57 mH2O, max flow is ~7.8 L/min. Factor in the D5 lowers its RPMs a bit at high amp draw/flow at P5+12V (so that the 20.7 L/min actually occurred at ~4300RPM), and the max flow works out just fine. This scaling works on all fans/pumps and across the entire curve, not just the ends (math is one step easier at the ends though )

So taking that and skinnee's DDC3.2+EK V2 data, we can pretty accurately estimate the performance of a 1300RPM DDC based on the DDC3.2 being ~4300RPM.

4300RPM DDC + EK V2 top has a max head of 4.03 mH2O, a max measured flow of 14.2 L/min (at 1.96 mH2O TDH, so not literal max flow due to testbed limitations), and a max flow (via trendline ) of 18 L/min

1300RPM DDC + EK V2 top works out to be a max head of .37 mH2O, a max flow of 5.44 L/min (corresponding to the trendline max) and a point on the curve at 4.3 L/min and .18 mH20.

Max head (with one of the best tops on the market) is 35% lower than a D5 P1 and max flow is 51% lower than a D5 P1. Even with a 5% difference in testbed with your testbed vs. skinnee's, a DDC at 1300RPM is going to deliver flowrates some 30%+ lower than a D5 P1.

This isn't a knock on the MCP35X at all, I love everything about it--warranty on a DDC3.25 with top-notch performing top (I trust your products perform) and with PWM wiring on top of that is awesome. But at the lowest RPM, it will be extremely weak.

EDIT: just to come full circle to Philwong's question, I'll quote myself:

It'll work, but if you increase the speed, temperatures will improve.

[found404]

What are the dimensions?

Would like to know if the 3x120mm would fit in my case.

Thanks.

[Neutronman]

No time wasted, I see official release http://www.swiftech.com/products/h20-x20-edge.asp

[Tomasis]

very good product

[95blackz26]

What are the dimensions?

Would like to know if the 3x120mm would fit in my case.

Thanks.

+1

both of you there is a case compatibility chart. probably the more popular cases
http://www.swiftnets.com/products/h2...ecompatibility

and here are the individual component specs
http://www.swiftnets.com/products/h2...specifications

[zytrahus]

I saw that, but there's not enough detail to design a case around these radiator+pump+reservoir thingies i.e. how far does the pump extend pass the end of the radiator, etc.

??

I thought they posted some schematics.

edit:
320: http://www.swiftnets.com/assets/imag...nsionsX800.jpg
220: http://www.swiftnets.com/assets/imag...nsionsX800.jpg

[found404]

??

I thought they posted some schematics.

edit:
320: http://www.swiftnets.com/assets/imag...nsionsX800.jpg
220: http://www.swiftnets.com/assets/imag...nsionsX800.jpg

Thanks, much appreciated, I checked the site, but couldn't find anything.

[gabe]

Pressure scales with square of the RPM and flow scales linearly with RPM. Get a curve at any RPM and you can calculate a curve at any other RPM and it'll be really, really close to actual

D5 P5 (4800RPM): max head in your MCP655 tests is ~4.05 mH2O, max flow is ~20.7 L/min

D5 P1 (1800RPM): max head in your MCP655 tests is ~.58 mH2O, max flow is ~8.8 L/min

Theoretical D5 P1 (1800RPM) based on scaling from above: max head is ~.57 mH2O, max flow is ~7.8 L/min. Factor in the D5 lowers its RPMs a bit at high amp draw/flow at P5+12V (so that the 20.7 L/min actually occurred at ~4300RPM), and the max flow works out just fine. This scaling works on all fans/pumps and across the entire curve, not just the ends (math is one step easier at the ends though )

So taking that and skinnee's DDC3.2+EK V2 data, we can pretty accurately estimate the performance of a 1300RPM DDC based on the DDC3.2 being ~4300RPM.

4300RPM DDC + EK V2 top has a max head of 4.03 mH2O, a max measured flow of 14.2 L/min (at 1.96 mH2O TDH, so not literal max flow due to testbed limitations), and a max flow (via trendline ) of 18 L/min

1300RPM DDC + EK V2 top works out to be a max head of .37 mH2O, a max flow of 5.44 L/min (corresponding to the trendline max) and a point on the curve at 4.3 L/min and .18 mH20.

Max head (with one of the best tops on the market) is 35% lower than a D5 P1 and max flow is 51% lower than a D5 P1. Even with a 5% difference in testbed with your testbed vs. skinnee's, a DDC at 1300RPM is going to deliver flowrates some 30%+ lower than a D5 P1.

This isn't a knock on the MCP35X at all, I love everything about it--warranty on a DDC3.25 with top-notch performing top (I trust your products perform) and with PWM wiring on top of that is awesome. But at the lowest RPM, it will be extremely weak.

EDIT: just to come full circle to Philwong's question, I'll quote myself:

Sorry Eric that you had to spend so much time above trying to come up with something that we should have done to begin with (although the MCP35X pump top is not released yet...) See the actual pump data in the attachment further below.

I saw that, but there's not enough detail to design a case around these radiator+pump+reservoir thingies i.e. how far does the pump extend pass the end of the radiator, etc.

The dimensions are listed in the MCR X20 Drive page.

Here is a reprint:



Let me know if you are missing something.

[Vapor]

Very nice PQs, thanks for doing them so quickly

I underestimated the MCP35X in my post above, it looks awesome

[gabe]

Very nice PQs, thanks for doing them so quickly

I underestimated the MCP35X in my post above, it looks awesome

Yepp, Stephen did a really good job. I'm eagerly awaiting for my production to arrive here (it's in transit) so we can finalize the release.

In fact, you were not far off at all in your assessment of 35x at min speed versus 655 in position 1, but what these graphs show is the advantage of the PWM: simply going to 20% (a mere 1800 rpm) results in superior performance compared to the 655 on 1, while keeping the noise level at "silent" level.

For good measure, I also added below the actual flow rate of the kit when varying the pump speed.

[dingdong555]

320 kit will be ordered when it's available.

However, a quick question, if the system is mounted horizontally at the top of the case, it will basically have to be taken out to fill? Unless you have a fillport drilled directly above it into the case which attaches to the radiator.

Also, how do you know the reservoir level? I presume my opening the cap and looking inside? Maybe in the future you could do a small acrylic/clear window (like a runway strip) showing the level of liquid inside?

What size tubing/barbs are they? I presume 7/16" 5/8"? Will they fit 3/8" 5/8" compressions? (I presume not 1.2" 3/4" due to no reversible ports?)

????

[gabe]

????

We include with the kit a grommet and a cap that fits nicely into it just for that purpose. See installation guide p12

For the level, you can in effect open up the radiator fill cap, and check it out.

Tubing is true 1/2" by 3/4 OD.

You will NOT be able to use compression fittings with the XTL since it doesn't have the reversible inlet/outlet plate. If this is a must for you, then you can buy the Drive and the XT separately.

[Toolius]

Hey gabe
This is awesome !! Love the fact that horizontal mounting is possible now and PWM on the pump is just the icing on the cake ! Cant wait to get it in my obsidian 800D
i loved the original drive which i might add continues to serve me exceptionally well and this has just taken it to another level
Me and a friend of mine are going to order 2 of the H20-320 Edge kits and have a quick question .. is the spacing of the holes for barbs/compression fittings on the XTL and XT the same ?
The reason i ask is because i had no problem using 3/8" ID 1/2 "OD bits-power compression fittings on the Apogee XT without reversing the inlet/outlet plate
Cant wait for these kits to hit retail so i can import em
Thank you for continuing to innovate and release such wonderfully easy to use kits .. water cooling has never been easier !
Cheers and kind regards

[Martinm210]

Very nice! Are the mcp35x curves of the stand alone pump or the pump/rad combo?

Looks really promising regardless, nice!!

[Utnorris]

Sweet Gabe! Nice September surprise. I have always liked the Swiftech kits for their simplicity and these just made it even easier. I do, like most, wish you would do an Apogee Drive revision, I still have one and think it's a great concept. Anyway, nice job. Any chance on a single 120mm Rad option?

[mattlef]

Looks awesome Gabe.
Any idea to availability in Canada?

[gabe]

Hey gabe
This is awesome !! Love the fact that horizontal mounting is possible now and PWM on the pump is just the icing on the cake ! Cant wait to get it in my obsidian 800D
i loved the original drive which i might add continues to serve me exceptionally well and this has just taken it to another level
Me and a friend of mine are going to order 2 of the H20-320 Edge kits and have a quick question .. is the spacing of the holes for barbs/compression fittings on the XTL and XT the same ?
The reason i ask is because i had no problem using 3/8" ID 1/2 "OD bits-power compression fittings on the Apogee XT without reversing the inlet/outlet plate
Cant wait for these kits to hit retail so i can import em
Thank you for continuing to innovate and release such wonderfully easy to use kits .. water cooling has never been easier !
Cheers and kind regards

The XTL is NOT compatible with large compression fittings because it doesn't have the reversible inlet/outlet port plate. If this is a must for you, then you would need to make your kit youself by buying the components separately, which is not really a big deal. You'd need the MCR 320 R2 with pump, and the XT, and some tubing.. then use the fans of your choice.

Very nice! Are the mcp35x curves of the stand alone pump or the pump/rad combo?

Looks really promising regardless, nice!!

the last curve is that of the complete kit. the other curves are the MCP35X.

Sweet Gabe! Nice September surprise. I have always liked the Swiftech kits for their simplicity and these just made it even easier. I do, like most, wish you would do an Apogee Drive revision, I still have one and think it's a great concept. Anyway, nice job. Any chance on a single 120mm Rad option?

CPU Drive.. no we gave up on this. I already posted about that here.. Sorry!

Looks awesome Gabe.
Any idea to availability in Canada?

I am not sure if NCIX ordered yet.. Anyways, I think our first production batch is already exhausted. Maybe 10 pcs left of the 320. The dealers rallied really quickly on this kit.

Unfortunately, I do expect a solid 3 weeks shortage after this. so you either get it now from a US dealer, or you might have to wait until end of September . The reason for the shortage is that I amk always conservative on the first production run with a new product, since we never really know for sure how the market wil react. Then based on sales, we start cranking the volume so to speak.

[mattlef]

Unfortunately, I do expect a solid 3 weeks shortage after this. so you either get it now from a US dealer, or you might have to wait until end of September . The reason for the shortage is that I amk always conservative on the first production run with a new product, since we never really know for sure how the market wil react. Then based on sales, we start cranking the volume so to speak.

No problem. i'm sure NCIX or Dazmode would pick this up. looks like a great all in one product.

[Philwong]

Gabe, how about a standalone fan/pump controller with a LCD for status feedback like the Aquaero next? This will give users full control over the Swiftech kit since most mobo's built-in PWM function can be quite lacking.

Phil

[Philwong]

The XTL is NOT compatible with large compression fittings because it doesn't have the reversible inlet/outlet port plate.

This can be easily resolved with a 45d angled compression barb. Had a pair of bitspower 1/2" compression fittings on my MCW30.

Phil

[nipper575]

Very nice product. Love that you can top mount it in a case now, with the barbs facing down.

[Utnorris]

Hey Gabe,
I saw you were not doing the Apogee Drive anymore already, just saying it would be nice, but I am more interested in a single 120mm combo drive like the dual and triple 120mm for a SFF build like a HTPC, any chance of this?

[Martinm210]

Regarding performance, you guys already have all the information you need, since I used these kits to perform all my tests in the articles posted here and here

All your testing was done with the Gentle Typhoon AP-15 fans.

What fans are coming on the kit?