AMD's Bobcat and Bulldozer

[Hans de Vries]

At least this side has the original AMD slides so that we can separate facts from fantasy.......

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/...essors_preview


The only disclosure in the whole document concerns the cache sizes of Bobcat: 32kb L1, 512kb L2
and it contains a typo(?) using kb (kilobit) instead of kB (kiloByte), at least I presume it's a typo....


Regards, Hans

[-Boris-]

Here we have the reason. Integrated PCI-Express controller.

EDIT: Well obviously not, but that what techpowerup claims.

[mindfury]

http://www.techpowerup.com/129392/AM...hitecture.html

Another one



waaa waa

Techpowerup is totally wrong,they confuse bulldozer with Llano...

Outside the modules
At the chip-level, there's a large L3 cache, a northbridge that integrates the PCI-Express root complex, and an integrated memory controller. Since the northbridge is completely on the chip, the processor does not need to deal with the rest of the system with a HyperTransport link. It connects to the chipset (which is now relegated to a southbridge, much like Intel's Ibex Peak), using A-Link Express, which like DMI, is essentially a PCI-Express link. It is important to note that all modules and extra-modular components are present on the same piece of silicon die.

[mindfury]

Here we have the reason. Integrated PCI-Express controller.

No,northbridge controller is not PCI-Express controller,K8 already has integrated northbridge controller.

[-Boris-]

No,there is no integrated PCI-Express controller in bulldozer.

No it shouldn't be, if it was, AM3 CPUs wouldn't work in AM3+ either. , another messed up article.
And the serverparts wouldn't fit G34 either.

But what do the mean by NB? It can't be the memory controller (as in K8) since it's mentioned separately.

[mindfury]

No it shouldn't be, if it was, AM3 CPUs wouldn't work in AM3+ either. , another messed up article.
And the serverparts wouldn't fit G34 either.

But what do the mean by NB? It can't be the memory controller (as in K8) since it's mentioned separately.

[-Boris-]

I know that NB been there since K8, but at that time they meant IMC when they mentioned NB. Now they're mentioned as separate units. What do they mean with NB today if it isn't IMC?

[Spectrobozo]

this socket compatibility thing is getting more and more confusing, but I know a lot of people buying AM3 now thinking about upgrading to bulldozer, if this is not possible... AMD will piss off (and lose) many customers...
I saw people choosing AM3 instead of i7 just because of the future upgrades...
but anyway, looking at this articles is impossible to be certain about this...
let's wait for some clear statement...

[mindfury]

I know that NB been there since K8, but at that time they meant IMC when they mentioned NB. Now they're mentioned as separate units. What do they mean with NB today if it isn't IMC?

They mentioned IMC and NB as separate units since K10.

[-Boris-]

this socket compatibility thing is getting more and more confusing, but I know a lot of people buying AM3 now thinking about upgrading to bulldozer, if this is not possible... AMD will piss off (and lose) many customers...
I saw people choosing AM3 instead of i7 just because of the future upgrades...
but anyway, looking at this articles is impossible to be certain about this...
let's wait for some clear statement...

Yeah, now we have three sources claiming that BD won't fit AM3. And one of them claims that it's an integrated PCIe-controller. On top of that we have an AMD slider that mentions the NB separately from the IMC.

[-Boris-]

They mentioned IMC and NB as separate units since K10.

So what is this NB? What does it do? It isn't the bus interface (HT) since that would make every processor with a bus regarded as a processor with an on-die NB. And it isn't the IMC, what is it then? Source please.

EDIT:
At this point, I do believe BD fits ordinary AM3. And I don't think the PCIe is integrated. But I do have some big questions to sort out first.

[Frontl1ne]

Where is JF-AMD! I will be super disappointed if Bulldozer is not compatible with current motherboards

[ajaidev]

So what is this NB? What does it do? It isn't the bus interface (HT) since that would make every processor with a bus regarded as a processor with an on-die NB. And it isn't the IMC, what is it then? Source please.

EDIT:
At this point, I do believe BD fits ordinary AM3. And I don't think the PCIe is integrated. But I do have some big questions to sort out first.

Hahah you have changed your mind 10 times about this my that must cause a head ache but i do understand its confusing as hell.

There will not be a integrated PCIe for bulldozer that is common knowledge.

[Mech0z]

Where is JF-AMD! I will be super disappointed if Bulldozer is not compatible with current motherboards

JF only comments on server parts, he has already said that

[-Boris-]

Hahah you have changed your mind 10 times about this my that must cause a head ache but i do understand its confusing as hell.

There will not be a integrated PCIe for bulldozer that is common knowledge.

I know.
About the compability part, for a brief moment, I actually thought that there was something new that made BD not work in AM3, but since everything is upside down in those articles I'm going back to my old belief that AM3 will work fine. I argued that being the case since the AM2 era. But since there is so much confusion in the articles I wonder what caused it.

Now I just want to know what the NB is if it isn't the IMC.

On socket 462 and earlier NB was a separate chip with memory controller and AGP-controller. On K8 you had NB onchip (IMC) but AGP/PCIe controller on a separate chip sometimes called NB. Now you have both IMC and NB side by side on a slider and I am confused.

[Olivon]

HotHardware :

Finally, there's Bulldozer. This is AMD's new high-end server / workstation / enthusiast CPU. Like Bobcat, it's an all-new architecture from the ground up. AMD is steadfastly refusing to give any specific timeframe for when Bulldozer chips might be available. But Bulldozer, when it arrives, will be drop-in compatible with the current generation of Opteron motherboards as well as AM3 products, provided that your motherboard manufacturer provides the necessary BIOS update.

[mAJORD]

Didnt JF already confirm Bulldozer would be drop into Existing Server boards? Hence There's no technical reason why the same wouldn't apply on the desktop

[G.Foyle]

AMD is making a chip where each core is 2/3rds of what it used to be and shall be marketting by the number of cores...

On the other hand, with Nehalem Intel has made a chip where each core is 4/3rds of what it used to be and is marketing the number of cores (not threads). Which makes me think core count will soon be disregarded just as once GHz was, and we'll see a new metric emerge (threads most probably).

[-Boris-]

Didnt JF already confirm Bulldozer would be drop into Existing Server boards? Hence There's no technical reason why the same wouldn't apply on the desktop

Yes he did, as said earlier, it has "always" been common knowledge.

[madcho]

i think the problem that AM3+ will be LGA.

So there is no problem of compatibility with HT links, but pactage changed. I think this the only reason why ...

I just hope they thinked to upgrade to 4 channels memory.

[-Boris-]

i think the problem that AM3+ will be LGA.

So there is no problem of compatibility with HT links, but pactage changed. I think this the only reason why ...

I just hope they thinked to upgrade to 4 channels memory.

There is no information whatsoever that suggests LGA or anything more than 2 channels. But I must say it would be nice with at least three channels.

[Opteron146]

This really is getting funny.

Now we have a 3rd site, at least capable of producing a 100% logic sentence.

However there is a lot of strange stuff in the rest of the article.

Additionally to the PCIe error, they compare Bulldozer to a "Turbo diesel" with low RPM (= lowclock speed). They should read Anand's review with the information on the deeper pipelines. These will secure higher clocks ... not low ones.

To LGA:
If it would be LGA, then it wouldnt be called AM3+

To the Northbridge:
Well, the rest is basically I/O (Hypertransport, and the XBAR switch Logic). I would prefer to use the Intel term in that case: Uncore (everything, which is not in a Module in AMD's case )

To the reason of the confusion:
Seems to me like AMD is to blame ... the telephone conference was probably misunderstandable. If it would be compatible they should have said so. The AMD officials probably said something like "not 100% compatible", and then the rest was speculation ...

[-Boris-]

To the Northbridge:
Well, the rest is basically I/O (Hypertransport, and the XBAR switch Logic). I would prefer to use the Intel term in that case: Uncore (everything, which is not in a Module in AMD's case )

So on an AM3 system there are three things that could be called NB, the IMC, the uncore and the PCIe part of the chipset?
Usually the confusion tends to be about the chipset or the IMC, but dragging the uncore to the mix is just unnecessary.
The uncore has nothing to do with traditional NB-functions.

To the reason of the confusion:
Seems to me like AMD is to blame ... the telephone conference was probably misunderstandable. If it would be compatible they should have said so. The AMD officials probably said something like "not 100% compatible", and then the rest was speculation ...

Yes, probably something about AM3 not being capable of all the features of BD. Guess some things will be clearer by the evening.

[wez]

Some food for thought. Would Asus release a high end AM3 board (CH IV ex) just months before a new socket is required for AMD's high end CPU's?

[-Boris-]

Some food for thought. Would Asus release a high end AM3 board (CH IV ex) just months before a new socket is required for AMD's high end CPU's?

If the amount of months is around twelve or possibly more, then yes.