If you are going to say that there is a 20% compromise because we have shared resources, then you have to say that Intel has an 85% compromise from their shared architecture. They share execution units and HT gives you a ~14% integer increase.
Some people like to do math but they don't like to do all the math.
Can you say, "single-threaded integer IPC will be higher than the previous generation" ?
Because that is what Alsup is saying is NOT the case. (integer performance, yes, but integer performance/clock drops slightly in a thread, made up for by a faster clock)
Anything less than that statement could be satisfied through the not-in-dispute FP improvements, or the more cores part. It's got to be: Integer (not FP), IPC (or "performance/clock", not just "performance"), Single-threaded
Something like, "BD will have higher single-threaded integer performance/clock than the previous generation."
That would actually address (and contradict) the statement that Alsup made.
Last edited by terrace215; 08-30-2010 at 08:54 AM.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh
I'm devolving from the level of discussion in this threaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh
E7200 @ 3.4 ; 7870 GHz 2 GB
Intel's atom is a terrible chip.
I'm breaking into tears.
Well I for one likes to keep on topic.
madcho, the 33% more cores for 50% more perf is on server loads. You can't reliably guesstimate from there.
What happened to power in those statements? Does performance per watt suddenly not matter?
Or could it be that the adding most of a second integer core actually uses a nice chunk of power when adding that 80% performance?
Is it possible that the thing to look at would be the performance/W improvements that the 2 different degrees of resource-sharing provide? Nahhhhhh.
That statement is from AMD's ex Chief Architect. I think the guy is now retired, but if you think Intel is paying him to post on comp.arch...
And your previous statements manage to artfully avoid getting all of "integer" "IPC" (note, IPC, not "performace") and "single-threaded" covered.
It wouldn't be hard to state, assuming your new architect will sign off on it.
Last edited by terrace215; 08-30-2010 at 09:30 AM.
Apparently he wants it to be very specific. He thinks something like, AMD drops integer performance to 10% of K10, but increased FP performance by 1001%, hence increased single-threaded performance.
Meh, looks like he still haven't read the whole thread. And he's running out of things to argue about.
EDIT: Anyway, third question answers terrace215's power questions. Honestly man, read the thread, read the slides, we're not here to spoonfeed you, especially seeing how eager you are. Stop nitpicking, and don't say you're not nitpicking.
http://blogs.amd.com/work/2010/08/30...%80%93-part-2/
Nothing that we don't know of though.
Last edited by blindbox; 08-30-2010 at 09:23 AM.
^^
lol
@ terrace215: Give it a break man?
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i think that a certain forum rule REALLY describes what certain persons are doing in here...
19. Trolling
Anyone entering the forum with the express intent to cause trouble or harm is subject to immediate and permanent ban.
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Terrace are you buying a ready product or 1 kg of Ghz like tomatoes?
Who cares about clock for clock if the part performs better in a given TDP budget which it was designed for.
To everyone else reading this thread: can we start a pool for Movieman to ban terrace from all threads including the word AMD?
I won't discount the possibility that taking out extra ALUs could lead to a bottleneck. We don't know enough to say otherwise at this point.
But I'm not going to reject the possibility that with all the frontend and cache improvements 2 well fed ALUs could beat 3 poorly fed ones. ALU count alone doesn't determine the average IPC, only the max. K10 isn't anywhere near 2 on average as you pointed out.
Why all the fascination with integer instructions? Real code uses a mix of int, fp, logical, and memory instructions. If the IPC of BD versus K10 increases when executing real world code isn't that what matters?
Of course adding a whole second set of execution resources is going to increase power consumption compared to HT. It's also going to perform better.
i guess that it's up to the admins to decide on this issue; not on us to start a witchhunt on certain persons....
while i think that the only purpose of terrace' posts is to create chaos and troll 80% of all forum members (and to secretly earn some more money from his shares / or directly from intel) we aren't the ones who should decide if a user gets banned only because he says things that we don't like
Core i7 2600k|HD 6950|8GB RipJawsX|2x 128gb Samsung SSD 830 Raid0|Asus Sabertooth P67
Seasonic X-560|Corsair 650D|2x WD Red 3TB Raid1|WD Green 3TB|Asus Xonar Essence STX
Core i3 2100|HD 7770|8GB RipJawsX|128gb Samsung SSD 830|Asrock Z77 Pro4-M
Bequiet! E9 400W|Fractal Design Arc Mini|3x Hitachi 7k1000.C|Asus Xonar DX
Dell Latitude E6410|Core i7 620m|8gb DDR3|WXGA+ Screen|Nvidia Quadro NVS3100
256gb Samsung PB22-J|Intel Wireless 6300|Sierra Aircard MC8781|WD Scorpio Blue 1TB
Harman Kardon HK1200|Vienna Acoustics Brandnew|AKG K240 Monitor 600ohm|Sony CDP 228ESD
You guys apparently don't realize that:
performance != performance/clock (IPC)
IPC != single-threaded IPC
and that the Alsup statement was about the *Integer* pipeline.
It doesn't matter how big the font is that says "Single-thread performance is higher." or "Bulldozer IPC will be higher." Neither of those address the Alsup claim which was that:
Single-threaded integer performance PER CLOCK (i.e. IPC) will be ~5% lower.
I would not have thought that the distinction would require a great deal of analytical reasoning ability to comprehend, but the numerous replies (with one exception that I've seen) indicate that I am either incorrect in my assessment or that educational systems are failing.
And really, all the personal stuff because someone posts something you disagree with? Really?
Last edited by terrace215; 08-30-2010 at 09:45 AM.
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