how do i created chiller? 12,000 BTU aircon to Chilled liquid

[Darkstar782]

So, I saw some threads here and thought, "I'll have me some of that!"

I have a 12,000 BTU aircon that I no longer use and have commenced dis-assembly...

I was going to try to be clever and put a variable resistor in place of the thermistor to make it think it always needed to run the compressor. Then I decided to just lengthen the wire and stuff the thermistor in the "warm air" exhaust. Problem solved.

Specs:


Coldness:


My amazing artistic skills:


More coldness:


I couldn't find a fuse so I used a screwdriver bit for added safety:


Now, I gather from mooching at other threads the theory is to get some sort of coolbox like this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/-/dp/B000TAOVY2?tag=invihand-21

Place this frozen radiator inside it, then fill that with water/ethanol....

For the cooling loop side, do I dump a 360 rad in there as well or do I actually pump that water/ethanol mix around the PC?

If I just pump the water/ethanol mix around, I'm going to have to be careful about algae growth and dust/dirt getting into the coolant, and therefore regularly replace it right?

Is convection and the flow of coolant enough within the coolbox?

The cold side rad is in a kind of awkward position, but is attached by copper pipes, I guess I just have to be very careful not to snap these?

Thanks for any suggestions

[Darkstar782]

Further disassembly has left me with the "cold" rad on top, pretty much on its own, so thinking I can mount the "reservoir" on top somehow.

I also have this giant fan to keep and use for something, this is probably going to be the stock fan on the Geforce GTX495.

2 litre coke bottle for scale...

[JWB]

For the cooling loop side, do I dump a 360 rad in there as well or do I actually pump that water/ethanol mix around the PC?

If I just pump the water/ethanol mix around, I'm going to have to be careful about algae growth and dust/dirt getting into the coolant, and therefore regularly replace it right?

Is convection and the flow of coolant enough within the coolbox?

The cold side rad is in a kind of awkward position, but is attached by copper pipes, I guess I just have to be very careful not to snap these?

Thanks for any suggestions

Hey Darkstar, welcome to the waterchilling section!

Ok as you have said you want to put the 'cold rad' (this is called the evaporator) in to your cooler box. Yes, when you do this you have to be really careful when bending the copper pipes. Now you can bend them by hand or you can get a pipe bender that will help you alot! watch out for the pipes kinking because it is really difficult to unkink them. The most likely place for them to break is at the joins where they have been brazed.

Once you have the 'evaporator' in place you dont need to have your normal watercooling rad anymore. Once you fill the coolerbox up with liquid you pump the water directly from there through your pump in to your waterblock and then back in to the coolerbox. It means your waterblock will be alot colder and you can add or change waterblocks very easily .

Water ANDethanol would be good, windshield fluid is good to if it can handle the temperature. You should also insulate your cooler box and keep the lid on it so no dirt/dust or whatever will get inside (and keeping the lid on will keep the liquid colder for longer). Also dont worry about algae the ethanol/windshiled fluid will kill that. Also make sure all of your pipes that are below room temperature are insulated, aswell as your motherboard and cpu block.

Hope thats some help to ou Darkstar, apologies though as its 1:57am here and I'm a little tired lol.

Goodluck with your build and comefor help anytime

James

[Darkstar782]

Thanks for your help, that all makes sense!

I see others have cut into their cool boxes to allow pipes to run in and out, and I'm now thinking I could make it quite compact by cutting down the side of the box to leave the rad in its current position with the "reservior" sat on top of the base of the aircon, but then I have to seal the box again....

What do others use for this? Just silicone sealant? (obviously have to find some rated for low temps...) or is it expanding foam or something?

[JWB]

Hi Darkstar,

The best way of putting the res around the evap would be to bend the evap so it is at a 45 degree angle where the bottom of it is off of the base of the ac. Its hard to explain but you will then be able to slip the res under the evap and then bend it back vertical again. This does seem a little daunting but once you try to bend it, it does move easier then you imagine but a bit of muscle is needed lol. Just go slow and take your time with it and you'll be fine. You can heat the copper piping up with something like a hairdrier or hot water, but whatever you do dont do this with a blow torch or anything!! lol. Once the res is slipped under you will have to cut a little box out for the copper piping to come out of the side. You can use this hole for your tubing to your waterblock to come in and out of too. Be careful not to cut the hole to big as it could limit the level of coolant you can put in. Yes silicone sealant will work but make sure it is silicone sealant as normal bathroom seleant is only water resistant and will leak. Silicone is clear bathroom sealant is white. There are some people on here who have even used hot glue though .

Once in it is best to move the evap diagonal to your res as to create two sections. One side where the warmer liquid straight from your waterblock and the other side where your pump is. This means most of the liquid is forced through the evap and will make it much colder than one just mounted on the side of your res. Its not crucial and most people dont do it but if you can it would be alot better. I've made a diagram in paint because its hard to visualize.



In the picture I have put the tubing going through the lid of the res though but you could easily use the hole you have made in the side of the res.

hope thats some help, hopefully not too hard to understand lol.

James

[Darkstar782]

Just a quick question as I'm assembling the res....

Does it matter if the pipes coming from the evap are in the res? Some are insulated so I'm worried they are supposed to stay warm....

Its far easier to mount if I leave like 15cm of piping inside the res....

[JWB]

No that should be fine just insulate outside of your res. You see when the 'freon' enters the very small tubing to the evaporator (the cap or capillary tube) there is a pressure drop. Once the freon enters the evaporator because there is a lower pressure so it only takes a small amount of heat to turn the freon in to a gas. The gas then goes to the compressor. There is a chance that the freon will turn back in to a liquid before it gets back to the compressor. This is VERY bad because liquid does not compress. So as the saying goes something will break and it won't be the liquid. Liquid freon will break your compressor and is called liquid slugging. So if you wanted you could leave the insulation on the pipes going back to the compressor (the suction line) if you wanted to be extra safe. Though of course insulate outside of the res anywhere that is below ambient temperature

Try this link Darkstar. Its by a very well known person called Gary lloyd who used to post here. It his website and the free sections are excellent and recommended for refrigeration info

James

Edit: Lol I forgot the link :P

http://www.refrigerationbasics.com/1024x768/rb1.htm

[Hondacity]

WTFUSE!!!

hahaah i love that fuse man

[JWB]

Oh BTW Darkstar what are you going to be cooling with your new chiller? Are you part of a team? Because I think Hondacity would welcome another member to the XS team

James

[Darkstar782]

Team? I'm just a noob trying to break things

Ok, reservoir attempt #1 sucks, too much of the stupid thing cut away getting pipes through it and there is no way I'm going to seal the thing no matter how much silicone I use :/

As for what I'm going to cool, long term probably my main rig (currently watercooled) which means an i7 920 on a ga-x58-dq6... but I'm thinking of making a bench rig with my old unused/unloved QX6800 so I can test it to destruction... unlocked multis should make it easy to test the limits of the chiller!

I have a Laing D5 and swiftech apogee sitting unloved in a drawer I can use for this and more 1/2" ID tubing than I know what to do with.

I bought a temp probe today which I wedged into the evaporator....




I'm thinking that long term this thing will be capable of cooling my CPU, NB, and a GPU (currently a 4870x2 on air, holding out for Northern Islands and currently resisting hitting "buy" on a pair of GTX460s or a 5790 toxic)....

12,000 BTUs is what, 3kW or so of cooling?

[JWB]

haha sounds like the Oc addiction is starting to get its grip already . That temp looks really nice but remember this is your first chiller next time after you have gained expierience you can then go on to make your own custom chiller. Which means you can try to build a system from scratch so all of the parts are where you want them so the layout is just how you want it. For now practicing on older hardware is best because it gets you used to how your chiller runs and gives you time to practice your insulation before you put your more expensive stuff at risk.

Once you've spent sometime with it and enjoyed your work for a while you can then think about lowering the amount of charge in this system. This will lower your coolant temp further and also lower the temp that you condensor will get to. So you can turn your fans down a little too . Let me know if you wanna try it in the future, but thats a good temp. I'm looking forward to seeing the loaded temps and seeing the pictures of it fully finished/insulated.

Congrats!

James

[Darkstar782]

I have a new res, and this time it is working

However I think I need more vodka as I currently have an ice cube:



This thing is an alcoholic... I guess I'll buy some antifreeze tomorrow

[JWB]

LOl is that one big ice block??? What vodka are you using? I got some 33% vodka but because it is only 33% ethanol I get a big ice block inside my bottle when I tested it in my freezer and thats only -27C!! I personnaly got some -65C (we will see if it goes that low) and currently have 13 liters but its expensive at around $7 per liter

My next chiller though I have a plan and have some perfect liquid in mind

[Darkstar782]

Yeah I have 10litres of car coolant that is supposed to be down to -55 celcius at 50% concentration, but its expensive so I don't want to use it until the system is actually set up to run!

Going to find something cheap just to see how low I can get it, the silicone is almost dry, then I'll be able to fill it up too

It really holds its temp once it gets cold, I'm impressed!

[[XC] mysticmerlin]

Just for reference.
Full post here.

[JWB]

Just for safety though Methanol if exposed to it long enough and if it evaporates can over time really damage your repiratio and your eyesight even enough to make you blind. Although being careful and it not being a concentrate you should be ok. Same with a high ethanol content, it can be dangerous because its highly flammible like methanol and it evaporates really quickly. The vapor is high flammible too and burns with an invisible flame. Although its in every alcoholic drink including your vodka, I'm just saying be be smart and be safe ok if you are thinking of using them

I have an idea to make a pure ethanol chiler, with 100 lab grade ethanol but the system would have to be entirely closed and every part especially the res totally air tight. A lot of windshiled fluid contains methanol and all drinking alcohols ethanol (do not drink straight ethanol you will get alcohol poisoning and damage your liver though lol). So the chart above is great for trying to find the actual freeze points of fluids you may use

Goodluck with your direct die Darkstar

Edit: If you are going to use a strong alcohol or methanol mix, what can happen is if not mixed very well the water in the mix can still frezze and bond together so you have a big ice cube in your res. To combat this what you can do is circulate the water inside of the res with another pump and it should try to stop that happening

James

[[XC] mysticmerlin]

All good points James And yes you have to have a closed loop to use the posted chart or the evaporation will make the *anol evaporate and you will have only water left after a while.

[Darkstar782]

Shame, I was enjoying the idea of inhaling methanol and being drunk all the time, would make overclocking WAY more fun....

[Darkstar782]

Hm, is it me or are these damn thermal boxes absolutely unpossible to seal once you have cut them.

If I ever get there its going to be such a mess of silicone it will look horrible...

Currently thinking I may just salvage the aircon for parts on the off chance I ever decide to try to build a phase cooler......

[ericFX1984]

Hm, is it me or are these damn thermal boxes absolutely unpossible to seal once you have cut them.

If I ever get there its going to be such a mess of silicone it will look horrible...

hot glue works pretty well


that or automotive ultra black silicone

[Darkstar782]

Well, the hot glue worked.....

The bad part was using Automotive antifreeze (Ethylene Glycol).

This has resulted in an emergency vet callout and a possibly dead cat, as well as a £600 lighter wallet (or, as I like to think about it, almost a Sapphire 5970 4gb Toxic).

Lesson learned... my next cooler will be a straight phase system rather than worry about coolant etc!

Note to others reading this thread: Do as everyone suggests and use Ethanol/Methanol

[underdog1425]

Well, the hot glue worked.....

The bad part was using Automotive antifreeze (Ethylene Glycol).

This has resulted in an emergency vet callout and a possibly dead cat, as well as a £600 lighter wallet (or, as I like to think about it, almost a Sapphire 5970 4gb Toxic).

Lesson learned... my next cooler will be a straight phase system rather than worry about coolant etc!

Note to others reading this thread: Do as everyone suggests and use Ethanol/Methanol

100 proof and higher cheapo vodka, GO!

Sorry to hear about your cat, any news?

[DedEmbryonicCe1]

Ethylene Glycol tastes sweet to cats and dogs. As such it isn't that uncommon for them to go out of their way to kill themselves with it.

[Q56_Monster]

I use straight prestone deicer windshield washer fluid. Works good, but I need an anti-corrosive