Aggressive suggestions for competitions

[Hondacity]

actually i forgot to add

declaration....is also an acountability of team captain...goes deep into hwbot.....

any false documentation..and no proof of declared hw used...is subject to....well oc community shall punish...such misconducts accordingly...

sorry for my bad engrish

[M.Beier]

actually i forgot to add

declaration....is also an acountability of team captain...goes deep into hwbot.....

any false documentation..and no proof of declared hw used...is subject to....well oc community shall punish...such misconducts accordingly...

sorry for my bad engrish

I cannot do that, I have no power on hwbot, except when I get Massman drunk

More generally competitions, like an addon to suggest vendors for FM competitions, and for maybe hwbot competitions when something big is up... f1oc, and so on.....

[massman]

Playing the devil's advocate here:

What stops a manufacturer from seeding binned hardware to a person who's also buying one. Eg: ECS ships a golden CrazyOC VGA to a user who also bought a retail version. The bill of the retail sample is used as proof of purchase and the golden one used for the competition.

As I mentioned in the OC Pro League thread, at a certain point the community will have to get manufacturers agree to remove themselves from the overclocking game (at least concerning the competitions) to support this way of overclocking. There are a few problems:

- What if competition forms are used to promote new hardware. I suppose this form of competition is no longer accepted then?
- What in non-manufacturer organized competition forms such as HWBOT. Do you tolerate manufacturer interference?

Do you accept reviewers (who do not get paid, have to work 100+h on a review and can keep the board afterwards) to use their samples in competitions? Why or why not?

I always get confused when people 'from the community' act as if the community only consists of people who pay for their hardware. I'm also confused how 'you have to pay for your hardware' and 'competitions should be about skill' line up exactly ... how come there's more skill involved when you pay for your own hardware? Why are you more eligable to be named a winner if you have paid for the hardware?

[massman]

actually i forgot to add

declaration....is also an acountability of team captain...goes deep into hwbot.....

any false documentation..and no proof of declared hw used...is subject to....well oc community shall punish...such misconducts accordingly...

sorry for my bad engrish

You know how many hatemails I get after we've (rightfully) banned someone from HWBOT? .

The way things are going, we're almost forced to get a police investigation and well-documented proof before we can remove someone .

[Hondacity]

Playing the devil's advocate here:

What stops a manufacturer from seeding binned hardware to a person who's also buying one. Eg: ECS ships a golden CrazyOC VGA to a user who also bought a retail version. The bill of the retail sample is used as proof of purchase and the golden one used for the competition.

As I mentioned in the OC Pro League thread, at a certain point the community will have to get manufacturers agree to remove themselves from the overclocking game (at least concerning the competitions) to support this way of overclocking. There are a few problems:

- What if competition forms are used to promote new hardware. I suppose this form of competition is no longer accepted then?
- What in non-manufacturer organized competition forms such as HWBOT. Do you tolerate manufacturer interference?

Do you accept reviewers (who do not get paid, have to work 100+h on a review and can keep the board afterwards) to use their samples in competitions? Why or why not?

I always get confused when people 'from the community' act as if the community only consists of people who pay for their hardware. I'm also confused how 'you have to pay for your hardware' and 'competitions should be about skill' line up exactly ... how come there's more skill involved when you pay for your own hardware? Why are you more eligable to be named a winner if you have paid for the hardware?

do you think sponsored guys will chime in onto the rules? they won't shoot they're on feet doing so...

[Hondacity]

You know how many hatemails I get after we've (rightfully) banned someone from HWBOT? .

The way things are going, we're almost forced to get a police investigation and well-documented proof before we can remove someone .

the more reason to get more clear rules

[massman]

the more reason to get more clear rules

The internet only gives you so much tools to verify. Also, I once heard too much rules kill the fun of the game.

[[XC] gomeler]

So you want to throw rules at the problem and hope it disappears? You'll end up with fewer valid results as everyone will break a rule here or there or be accused of cheating.

I would rather see LOTS of tiny live or online events with prizes lower than $1000 and with stipulations against consecutive prizes. Have dozens of competitions per region and then have a global live competition every year or every other year with the top benchers from this series according to a points system. More competitions mean more chances to win. More competitions also eliminate personal time constraints. So what if you miss one or two out of 20 competitions, you have plenty of other chances to compete.

Regarding score validation I'd rather see a software system that would validate basically time stamp and validate the system. Video is tedious to record, edit, upload, and view. Perhaps a program that performs a screenshot, encodes it into a payload along with a time stamp, system information pull, a IP based geo-lookup, and then uploads the result to a central server?

[Movieman]

The internet only gives you so much tools to verify. Also, I once heard too much rules kill the fun of the game.

You do what you can and listen to suggestions from the HWBot membership.
You try and close as many loopholes as you can think of and thats all you can do.
Your not perfect and will miss something but every time something like this happens you and the community will learn from it.
Cheaters you ban and then go from there.
That is all you can do.

[massman]

ALL MANUFACTURERS: listen and take note of this:

I would rather see LOTS of tiny live or online events with prizes lower than $1000 and with stipulations against consecutive prizes. Have dozens of competitions per region and then have a global live competition every year or every other year with the top benchers from this series according to a points system. More competitions mean more chances to win. More competitions also eliminate personal time constraints. So what if you miss one or two out of 20 competitions, you have plenty of other chances to compete.

In theory, we could even get those small competitions to matter at hwbot since our HCE engine can save and pull up competition results. Eg: win in a small competition and get 5 points in some sort of competition ranking.

Regarding score validation I'd rather see a software system that would validate basically time stamp and validate the system. Video is tedious to record, edit, upload, and view. Perhaps a program that performs a screenshot, encodes it into a payload along with a time stamp, system information pull, a IP based geo-lookup, and then uploads the result to a central server?

We're currently looking into a wrapper for the Unigine Heaven benchmark and are trying to include as much verification tools as possible.

- Screenshot: included.
- Timestamp: problem because most benchers have freshly installed OS's and don't bother to correctly set the windows time
- System information pull: partially included (unique system info is in, hardware specs are not)
- IP: problem with bench rigs not connected to the internet
- Central server: done

You try and close as many loopholes as you can think of and thats all you can do.

My main concern is to keep overclocking fun and easy to do .

[[XC] gomeler]

People will have to accept having the bench system connected to the Internet in order to play. Just like how computer games are moving. I frequently hook up my bench rigs to my network to quickly transfer bulk files like the 3DMark series executables instead of dealing with pesky and slow flash drives. Requiring an Internet connection gets you the time stamp and a rough idea of the location.

I didn't want to outright mention HWBot but yes, HWBot's engine would work very well for this. The best thing would be a system where all the manufacturers can put prizes up in order to insure lots of these mini competitions but I fear the traditional minds in marketing won't go with this. Heck, speaking of prizes it could be like the old arcades where you accumulate points and at any time you can cash in your points for prizes

[massman]

People will have to accept having the bench system connected to the Internet in order to play. Just like how computer games are moving. I frequently hook up my bench rigs to my network to quickly transfer bulk files like the 3DMark series executables instead of dealing with pesky and slow flash drives. Requiring an Internet connection gets you the time stamp and a rough idea of the location.

The Geo-look up is meant to prevent people from passing on scores, right? What about changing the proxy?

Every hwbot heaven submission should have a few unique strings attached to it. So score sharing should be solved in the wrapper we have now.

I didn't want to outright mention HWBot but yes, HWBot's engine would work very well for this. The best thing would be a system where all the manufacturers can put prizes up in order to insure lots of these mini competitions but I fear the traditional minds in marketing won't go with this. Heck, speaking of prizes it could be like the old arcades where you accumulate points and at any time you can cash in your points for prizes

I really like that idea ... !

[M.Beier]

Hmm, a bit frightend of what you guys are suggesting.... I've been fighting since Cebit 2008 to get Denmark accepted for competitions.... What you guys are suggesting means we're out, again....

Or alternatively that benchers pay for traveling cost.... Doubt vendors will pay for 20 live events anually, but would be cool as hell, no doubt!

[[XC] gomeler]

The Geo-look up is meant to prevent people from passing on scores, right? What about changing the proxy?

Every hwbot heaven submission should have a few unique strings attached to it. So score sharing should be solved in the wrapper we have now.

I really like that idea ... !

The geo-lookup/IP record would deter noob score passing. Passing through a proxy presents other problems that I'm sure could be resolved with a little thinking.

Hmm, a bit frightend of what you guys are suggesting.... I've been fighting since Cebit 2008 to get Denmark accepted for competitions.... What you guys are suggesting means we're out, again....

Or alternatively that benchers pay for traveling cost.... Doubt vendors will pay for 20 live events anually, but would be cool as hell, no doubt!

Why? I'm talking regions, not countries. Plus, your countries are all so small so it would be the same 2 people competing against each other The mini comps I'm talking about would be based around the continents and you would compete in the region you live in. Or maybe it could be global for all the competitions I just figured regional offices for companies would like to band together to promote the events. The biggest problem I foresee is tax/prize problems distributing prizes across multiple countries.

[Oliver]

What about forgetting the word "competition" for a time ?

Instead lets focus on whats overclocking "is", to see how far things can be pushed and which numbers can be produced, meanwhile helping and pushing eachother up.

Peace

[M.Beier]

What about forgetting the word "competition" for a time ?

Instead lets focus on whats overclocking "is", to see how far things can be pushed and which numbers can be produced, meanwhile helping and pushing eachother up.

Peace

but the thread is in "xtreme competitions" and about how to make competitions better, why forget about competitions then?

[[XC] gomeler]

What about forgetting the word "competition" for a time ?

Instead lets focus on whats overclocking "is", to see how far things can be pushed and which numbers can be produced, meanwhile helping and pushing eachother up.

Peace

We do get caught up in the hype of competitions and the prizes associated with them but they are also the exciting pinnacle of our hobby. It is time a little discussion occurred about the actual competitions instead of the fallout of the competitions.

[T_M]

The internet only gives you so much tools to verify. Also, I once heard too much rules kill the fun of the game.

[T_M]

You do what you can and listen to suggestions from the HWBot membership.
You try and close as many loopholes as you can think of and thats all you can do.
Your not perfect and will miss something but every time something like this happens you and the community will learn from it.
Cheaters you ban and then go from there.
That is all you can do.

Movieman shares my thoughts

[G H Z]

What about forgetting the word "competition" for a time ?

Instead lets focus on whats overclocking "is", to see how far things can be pushed and which numbers can be produced, meanwhile helping and pushing eachother up.

Peace

Or at the least remember play for fun and you can't always win.

[chew*]

My 2cents.

You want to play in a comp you pay. end of story. show receipts.

Can't tell me the top ocers can't sell one piece of hardware to buy another.

Sure someone will whine about my post......never seen so many made whiney people in my life.

Like to take a bus load of ocer's and take them for a spin through the real world for a day aka my hood.

Last thing on the mind would be whining about hardware, living to see the next day would be there only concern.

[Hondacity]

i think we're trying to figure out..how we can make some competitions more fair. but i dunno ....competitions i guess will always be more inclined with those with connections...

[chew*]

What i'm suggesting is just a deterrent......btw....sure ways will be found around it.

Be nice to see luck as a factor again, sadly currently money and backing are the only current factors not to take away from skill. Skill has nothing to do with luck versus money/backing however.

[rbuass]

I agree with Marc for both HWbot and in general.
Image this:

I get lucky and find a 6.5GHz 3D 980X.
And since I'm in Greece at the moment, I pay a visit to some friends ( Hipro5, gprhellas, stelaras, sofos1990, crio, crustytheclown, aristidis, tsan, mortisboy, etc ) and give them the CPU to bench 3D with it.
What kind of goodness does this serve ?

+1
To me...i think this can allowed for all competitions and to HWBot...
Just hard to prove about the hardware,,,then...if guys can share monster CPUs...just unfair

[Movieman]

How about something simple and to the point.
Example:
New competition, wPrime 1024,000,000M
Here's the rules:
1)xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
2)xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
3)xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Cheat and your ass is banned until the second coming of Christ and you name is removed from everywhere it exists.
Without Honor you have nothing!

Should get the point across yes?