Andre Yang - Lifetime Ban

[BeepBeep2]

I have to back Fugger entirely on the bans. There should be a zero tolerance cheating policy. If Fugger did not ban everyone involved, XtremeSystems would lose any and all legitimacy as an overclocking website.

I'm a bit sad to hear some of the cheaters (regardless of that fact that they may be contributing members of the community) won't be getting longer bans. Permanent may be excessive, but if it's just a couple months, that's not enough time, in my opinion.

Unrelated: Charlie, is that a hidden Apple of Eden in your avatar?

I disagree.

Give them a week to explain themselves, and if they are not up to doing that, then ban them or remove all of their rights.

[metro.cl]

This is just sad.

But things like this we could see them coming miles away.

[ExodusC]

I disagree.

Give them a week to explain themselves, and if they are not up to doing that, then ban them or remove all of their rights.

Well, I agree they should be given a chance to explain their actions and apologize, but the fact seems to be that they were cheating. Anyone deserved that.

I'm not saying lifetime ban, that does seem unjust as they still contribute to the community and seem to be well respected in many circles.

Still, the fact of the matter is, they cheated and they should be punished for it.

Whether people choose to trust their scores (and words) in the future, and how scrutinized they will be is entirely up to the community.

[charlie]

Overclocking DOES take talent, however overclocking also means you have lots of $$$$. Without the $$$$ you are nothing.

I'm stuck with a bum CPU and it does not go further. I can't even keep up with similar CPU's.

not true.

if you don't have much $$ then change the class in which you compete

You can be an A++ Sempron overclocker... or celeron clocker.

[BeepBeep2]

not true.

if you don't have much $$ then change the class in which you compete

You can be an A++ Sempron overclocker... or celeron clocker.

But those do not get talked about like hiwa's and Andre's and K|NGP|N's...

[Sadasius]

But those do not get talked about like hiwa's and Andre's and K|NGP|N's...

Your exactly right too. It is the same in almost anything as well. In bodybuilding nobody cared about the lightweights. They wanted to see the super heavy freaks of nature. In boxing they want to see the big guys kill each other etc etc.

[Movieman]

But those do not get talked about like hiwa's and Andre's and K|NGP|N's...

BUT where did they start?
I guarantee you that there was a day when all of these people were unknown and just experimenting in their homes on modest hardware..
No one was born with these skills,all learned and by the vast majority self taught thru trial and error.

[BeepBeep2]

BUT where did they start?
I guarantee you that there was a day when all of these people were unknown and just experimenting in their homes on modest hardware..
No one was born with these skills,all learned and by the vast majority self taught thru trial and error.

Point taken.

[Movieman]

Point taken.

A little follow up..
There's this guy I know( and you all know him too) that 3-4 years ago I remember talking with him and he was constantly testing.
I mean like constantly testing and learning.
I used to think Dear Lord that would bore me to death but that was him.
Today he is a VERY well known OC'er and one of the sharpest people I know in this hobby..

[uncle fester]

IF you guys think there is no skill involved try competing in the super pi low clock challenge, fastest super pi 32 at 4ghz, lets see how you shape up then.

[OhNoes!]

I have to back Fugger entirely on the bans. There should be a zero tolerance cheating policy. If Fugger did not ban everyone involved, XtremeSystems would lose any and all legitimacy as an overclocking website.

I'm a bit sad to hear some of the cheaters (regardless of that fact that they may be contributing members of the community) won't be getting longer bans. Permanent may be excessive, but if it's just a couple months, that's not enough time, in my opinion.

Unrelated: Charlie, is that a hidden Apple of Eden in your avatar?

How so? XS is a hub for some of the elite overclockers on the planet; unfortunately banning such legends also denies members some of the invaluable insights they bring into the sub-forums. Andre Yang (AY) benches for Team Pure, not XS. What rule on XS did AY break by "sharing" scores with other XS members? Was the competition organized by XS? Were they representing XS? What if member of this cherished community breaks the law, do they get an automatic ban?

I am by no means questioning the course of action taken by Charles, but this seems to be a grey area that needs to be ironed out quickly to prevent confusion. I certainly am not envious of Charles for this course of action, it must have been one tough decision to make.

[Oliver]

BUT where did they start?
I guarantee you that there was a day when all of these people were unknown and just experimenting in their homes on modest hardware..
No one was born with these skills,all learned and by the vast majority self taught thru trial and error.

[systemviper]

I see people looking for people to defend themselves, i feel that XS wouldn't have banned them if they had not done there homework first. Common i am sure this was taken very serious, and hte people saying OMG lifetime ban, bla bla bla is bad, we are a very forgiving people so no matter what the ban was, with the right actions everything could change in a heartbeat.

So i found this because i haden't seen any post yet of any admissions of guilt till this one,..

Here us skinnee's side of the story as he posted itl...

I want to get my side of this whole situation out in the open…

Vapor was in town for some lab projects we have going on and I talked him into benching with me to qualify for MOA. We had a 160L tank of LN2, XPower boards and Ryan’s (GoatEater) untested chip. I setup the OS, drivers and applications and used the 197.75 drivers… I knew FM always lagged behind approving drivers and figured they hadn’t approved the 257.xx drivers yet.

Wednesday and most of Thursday we spent testing a few kits of RAM, how to clock the uncore on the XPower, and so on… Thursday night we went cold. We benched 480’s in SLI with the 197.75 drivers. And as you can see from the ORB links and screenshots (run 1 ORB / run 1 HWbot, run 2 ORB / run 2 HWbot) we did well with the 480’s and Ryan’s chip was pretty good, but the 197.75 drivers were not FM approved and we later validated that FM QA did not even test those drivers.

So, I have the score to be in second, but my driver choice means the entry cannot be used in the contest and the 480’s are pretty much tapped out score wise. I called in a favor to a buddy here in the Twin Cities to borrow his 5970 and 5870 to go higher in score.

Friday night we tossed the ATI cards on and benched for 7+ hours on Ryan’s chip. During the long session we achieved four scores above 43k and ended up having condensation issues and killing Ryan’s chip early Saturday morning as we were pushing for over 44k.

Saturday afternoon I finally uploaded the scores to ORB and did not even try to make them public at first as I wanted to hold out as long as possible to see what other scores were posted on the leaderboard, but I finally caved and tried to make the lowest score public and it would not go. Here are the screen shots and 3dr files from the Friday night session…

43023 SS / 43023 3DR

43474 SS / 43474 3DR

43553 3DR

43912 3DR

I emailed Pasi at FM and posted in the thread on the FM forums regarding the problem of the scores just not wanting to go Public. During the bench session we renamed 3DMark06.exe to 3DMark05.exe. In pretesting, we observed the score was not very consistent and renaming seemed to improve the consistency and therefore improved the average score slightly, by 50-100 points. Peak scores were unchanged, but low scores weren’t cropping up.

Since we were having problems with the results and had not received any word from FM, we switched over to another 980X and started benching again on Sunday night. However, we were still waiting on FM’s reply to see if they could resolve the ‘Make Public’ issue with the four 43+k ATI results I had uploaded. We ran out of LN2 around 2:00AM Central Time and did not beat our previous high score of 43912 from Friday night/Saturday morning.

We decided to wait up for FM’s reply to see if they could resolve the problem with the results. A few hours before the deadline, an offer came in from Andre for a valid score to secure the 2nd place spot… and out of desperation I took it. In the meantime, Pasi emailed back saying he looked at the results I uploaded previously and saw the the .exe was renamed, which made the checksum invalid and according to FM policy you cannot rename files (modifying the .dlls and .exes at all is forbidden). I uploaded the score from Andre, made it public and notified Pasi of the new project ID to be included in the contest.

The score I uploaded from Andre was pulled as you already know. Taking the 3dr file and uploading it as my own was a complete dumbass move. I exchanged several emails with FM this morning regarding the matter, to which I openly admitted to using Andre’s score as my own.

Regardless of my own stupidity, I want to congratulate the winners and wish them the best of luck in Taipei for the finals.

[tdream]

Actually it's a happy day, we now have less idi0ts in the community.

wait, you're still here?

[Dumo]

Too bad it have to end this way, but everyone that involved will move on eventually.....new cpu, new gpu will be released no matter what happens to oc community

Edit...as I saw this : [Qoute] "an offer came in from Andre for a valid score to secure the 2nd place spot… and out of desperation I took it"........That is stupid "win with all cost" attitude and it deserved the ban

[punx223]

im sorry but I believe this applies

[Johnny87au]

I still think these guys should be given a chance address this criticism personally (if they choose to do so). Maybe some hacker stole the results and emailed to the others, maybe a band of pink fairies forced Andre's hands to share results, maybe they are victims of international Overclock Mafia (suspected leader: Movieman)
Kidding aside, I really don't feel comfortable to see this pages of bashing without them being able to respond. Don't take me wrong, I would be the first person to call them AS*HOLES! but I'd like to say this to their faces rather than , you know, from behind.

+1, totally agree

[systemviper]

here is the post from hiwa....

Hi eveyone
Well, i wanted to wait andre post here for first or answer my pm on msn
but couldn't keep it,during the computex this year i heard ppl have some discusion about me, anything started in there with UNFAIR group results, bench with friends hardware, i lost myself in there, i was in top10 and i touched top5 in aprile with my hardware and cpus.
i checked XS last week and i see futuremark make this contest, bought the board and killed it, it was all to kill first place score witch i couldn't see and let it stay in top. i really couldn't go for MOA it was just to kill that score, then andre shared it with me on my request, but why you shared it with other 4 or 5 ?


I am going to delete all my GROUP scores and ES(the first must be delete) , UNFAIR results from hwbot
i'll go to top20 maybe but who care, i'll back a day and start again bench like a real overclocker.

that's all guys

no he isn't i never said he is bad GHZ, he make score for me, but he shared with other 3 persons with no reason. it's very strange to me sorry for my english i didn't want say that.


i am not angry with andre, it was my fault not andre he gave me result on my request.


i edited my old post it wasn't what i wanted to say

we had enough hardware to bench sometimes we use his chip sometimes mine
a lot of boards there, but we should never post the results caz ppl weren't happy on that.

andre didn't get one CENT on LOC, he never sold the scores to me or other ppl
as i told before he gave me score on MY REQUEST.

Andre tried to help us

[BeepBeep2]

Kudos to hiwa and skinnee for having the nuts to confess and learn from mistakes.

[Johnny87au]

U beat me too it, He was man enough to own up and admit what has happened and came clean, alot of people would of made up a excuse and denied it, a real man comes forward.. always a good thing in my book..

[systemviper]

now one from Afrokalle

Hey guys,

as i heared from this competiton my friend (and team mate) sent me his XPower and i bought a retail chip (3005F) to compete...

...but before i had a result this chip died.

So i benched with my Q3QP (a good chip but not as good as the retail) and got some good score's - i did not know the first time that ES Chip not allowed cause in hwbot it is no problem. After i realized it i asked my friend to send me a new retail but there was no time to do it...

I spent a lot of time in benching but all my scores seems useless for this competition and i tought i will upload scores with Q3QP but then i talked with Andre and he said he can help me...

I know it is not ok and it is only my fault!

It is not ok that all people here more against Andre than against us. He benched his own hardware and he also did not compete in this event. So i think the main fault is 100% on our side. What he did is not fair but as i said the main fault is on our side...

I did not upload this score to hwbot - also i did not upload any score from Computex to hwbot - all my/our scores in hwbot done with my hardware...

We wanted to use this as a team account but did not...

Also my team mates have nothing to do with this and cause of this fact (and that it is not my score) this score (and the one's from Computex) are not @hwbot.

My bad feelings was not that big cause i kicked with this score somebody out who also is not a fair player...

...i will not say with this that it is ok (it is 100% not ok) - i will only say why my bad feelings not that big as they could be...

In my case (and i can only speak for me) it is my fault!

He helped me cause he knowed that i worked hard for this competition and cause he knowed that i want come back Taipei to see someone...

So what do you think is his profite???

Again, it is not ok but i can not see that Andre could gain anything from doing this..

And i think i said why my bad feelings not that big.

[Dumo]

Rules in overclocking (competitively with prize or just to show off your new hardware):

1. Post your own result
2. Show your own work

Once you crossed the line...your credibility and respect will vanished

[Klarko]

Rules in overclocking (competitively with prize or just to show off your new hardware):
1. Post your own result
2. Show your own work

Sounds like math class :P

[HitandRun]

Time to get rid of all the "great" people.
Cheaters and abusers should be kicked out of the forums and the ranking sites.

p.s. Despite the fact that in their ToU HWbot states "Sharing/selling results = lifetime ban" we see a 1 year ban for mr "I think my money and connections beat everyone and is the honored way to go".

Goodbye, we will NOT miss you at all.

Could not agree more!

[SamHughe]

now one from Afrokalle

Thank you SO MUCH for sharing these.