Andre Yang - Lifetime Ban

[Computurd]

yours is post number 450 beepbeep. So dont tell me that it isnt still being dragged out.

[BeepBeep2]

yours is post number 450 beepbeep. So dont tell me that it isnt still being dragged out.

No, we kinda started talking about other things...

[Computurd]

hey, umm you are a little late to the party but we were done doing that a page ago. sorries!

Seems about everyone in this forum has weighed in with their opinions on this matter. Far be it for you to 'correct' anyone or tell them when they can, or cannot, say anything. Do not diminish my opinion with your sarcasm.
Have a nice day.

[BeepBeep2]

Seems about everyone in this forum has weighed in with their opinions on this matter. Far be it for you to 'correct' anyone or tell them when they can, or cannot, say anything. Do not diminish my opinion with your sarcasm.
Have a nice day.

You want my reason? You can't have it.

This thread has been cleaned up considerably since you got here.

If you would kindly back up a page from this one you will find me quoting something that no longer exists. There have been quite a few posts that "no longer exist". There has already been one person removed from this section completely for flaming.

But you can't see it because even the post stating he was removed and telling others to watch what they say from now on was also removed.

There are a lot of things missing here, sorry I came off in such a manner.

[Truckchase!]

Take this private.

[Computurd]

Cleaned up considerably since i got here? I have been watching it since day one. I read the posts before they were cleaned up.
However, discretion is the better part of valor. I have waited to watch it play out before I came to some sort of opinion worth stating.
I was not flaming, or trolling, or whatever, and if that were the case, it would be the position of the moderators to warn or censure me.
I know there are things missing here. One of them was my opinion, but now it is here
No hard feelings.

[Utnorris]

I think calling for Vapor's banning etc is way over the top. He didn't cheat and he didn't have a chance to be a silent accessory. Even if he did keep quiet about it after the fact, it's not like he should be punished in the same way the cheaters are.

With that said, the thought that he (and Fugger for that matter) might have decided to keep silent about cheating really feels like a betrayal of trust. People look up to you guys.

This is one of my biggest issues and the reason this whole thing gets me upset. We are not tlaking about Joe Average, but people in positions that can effect other people.

Yup same here. Such a big deal. You know I would have been pissed off if it was a youtube vid or something with Vapor, Skinnee and such taking rounds out of my wife or something but this?!? Maybe it's just me then but to tell you the truth isn't that how progress is made by people who think outside the box or bend the rules and others try to compensate for it? Everybody is a cheat and everybody is a liar for one damn thing or another and if someone say's different then they are lying right there because it is impossible to do. What bothers me is people out for blood on a forum. To me it say's get a freakin life already! Vapor I don't give a rats behind if you bought the damn thing yourself and gave it to skinnee. To me the two of you have contributed way more and heck I would have bought you the damn score myself to help pay back all the stuff you guys did for us. Don't listen to the blow-hards spewing their garbage and asking for people to step down. I don't find what you guys did malicious and heck if you guys did get away with it I would not have cared or be bothered by it. I find it's up to the score keepers to adapt and make things tighter. There will always be a guy with something up his sleeve to beat the odds.

No one is after blood, just accountability. You cannot and I am going to repeat myself here, you cannot set a standard for one person/group/company and then set another standard for another person/group/company and not expect people to call foul. Sorry, I am just calling it how I see it.

See, this is exactly why people think you should stay. You recommended that skinnee take the high road and left, and yet you still want to step down because your name is peripherally mentioned in this scandal because you don't want any reflection on XS. That is exactly the kind of attitude we need here.

First, let's be clear, from what I read on HWBOT, this did not just happen overnight. The idea that Skinnee submitted the score with the rest and the next day the investigation was over with and everyone was banned is BS. I quote:

"After an in-depth search, Futuremark realized that all these results originated from a single setup, this based not only on the same FM registration key but also the PCI devices and more. In practice, this means that one overclocker has produced several benchmark scores and gave it to other overclockers to win the MOA 2010 WW Final ticket."

This didn't happen in a matter of hours. My point is that Vapor knew what Skinnee was doing and chose (badly) to turn a blind eye to it. If they had not gotten caught, know one would have known but those involved. I don't think anyone has called for him to face the same punishment as the others, but stepping down from being a mod here was the right move.

Lastly, everyone thinks that this is just having an effect here on XS, are you serious? Do you guys realize that now every time someone looks at the rankings they will suspect cheating. How the hell can you have competitions if no one can trust the system or the participants? The ones that are saying it isn't a big deal, tell that to the new overclockers trying to make a name for themselves or to the guy that loses out after pouring a couple months of his/her life into getting ready for a competition only to lose because someone skirted the rules or flat out cheated. I keep hearing that people need to get off their "High Horses", but maybe people need to start acting responsible and ethical. To codone any type of cheating is wrong, simple as that. What type of message does that send to masses? It's ok to cheat as long as you don't get caught, great lesson. I can only hope that people here don't truly believe this, otherwise why compete, why bother?

[Sadasius]

To codone any type of cheating is wrong, simple as that. What type of message does that send to masses? It's ok to cheat as long as you don't get caught, great lesson. I can only hope that people here don't truly believe this, otherwise why compete, why bother?

Sorry to break it to you but it is reality. I don't care what standard is set in anything you do or wherever you go there will be people there who have an edge one way or another. People compete anyway to better themselves and to have fun. The people who want to win at any cost often will. I never said it was right or wrong, just reality. I am not going to judge another person as I know I am no damn boyscout myself.

EDIT**

When you stand back and look how much people want to crucify others over one wrong thing it is sad. They do not take into account the other million things they do right especially in helping others. How much has these people helped others? I cannot count how many damn times. Booting them off the forum only hurts the others just so people can lick their chops from the corpse they chewed on thinking they are better. Sorry to break it to people....We are all human and screw ups are part of the game. Live and learn, don't be sadistic in making people pay for it.

[Newblar]

i can understand banning people from competition
but not from the forums
people like skinnee are the reason why me and a bunch of people visit xs on a regular basis
they just contribute way to much to the community, and to have them gone sucks
/2c

[BustaH]

This is not the right logic, I think.

It reminds me of this political party (from EU) that said "we should not tolerate beautiful women to wear short skirts in order to give men less temptation to rape them".

It comes down to every individual to step up and be responsible for his or her actions. Don't point to the rules to justify your actions when you know it's regarded as incorrect ...

I agree each individual must take responsibility for themselves and act responsibly, meaning you abide by simple rules the only reason I agree with lifetime ban/bans is because of what the cheaters are saying to those who play by the rules through their actions, basically they are saying **** you and your fair ways of doing things, its as simple as that.

and anyone who is saying there is a lynch mob here? wtf if a boxer put lead in His glove to beat his opponent what would you say then? you might say that's an extreme comparison, but its blatant cheating just the same.

no sport needs that s**t, how do you think the guy coming in second to Ben Johnson felt when it came out Ben J was taking illegal performance enhancing drugs to beat Him? high profile sport yes but cheating just the same.

[NightCrawler™]

Because of the outcry from everyone out for blood. Better to just step down and resume my normal browsing on XS with a different colored name and an "Edit Post" button missing on everyone else's posts than to have it persist and drag XS down.

Don't get me wrong here as I was one of the members who "attacked" you.. but stepping down isn't the right choice to make..
Being an admin myself I don't back down from giving my take on a matter or defending my actions.. I think it makes you a better admin..
Dropping yourself from staff like this gives only food for thought you agree with the way things went down..

The whole point of the discussion is why people got banned, Andre getting banned for life and your take in it..

Like I said.. removing yourself from staff is taking the easy way out.. I always figured you were way better then that..

[dafour]

What people do to win..Its crazy.Lifetime ban on hwbot would be good!

[l0ud_sil3nc3]

which means we need a hundred massman clones

[Hampti]

Oh man. I'm really dissapointed about the work from this guys and i'm glad to hear that they've been banned. Am i right when i say that AY haven't wright any sentence in this thread?

[zanzabar]

i can understand banning people from competition
but not from the forums
people like skinnee are the reason why me and a bunch of people visit xs on a regular basis
they just contribute way to much to the community, and to have them gone sucks
/2c

he did not get a life time ban, hes just going on vacation.

a life time ban from the orb or HWbot for cheating makes sense but the forum seams like it should be less than permanent for all involved

[Kal-EL]

I wonder how deep the rabbit hole is here and if FM will start scanning thru other profiles looking for the rest of the cheaters.

[Aberration]

Sorry to break it to you but it is reality. I don't care what standard is set in anything you do or wherever you go there will be people there who have an edge one way or another. People compete anyway to better themselves and to have fun. The people who want to win at any cost often will. I never said it was right or wrong, just reality. I am not going to judge another person as I know I am no damn boyscout myself.

EDIT**

When you stand back and look how much people want to crucify others over one wrong thing it is sad. They do not take into account the other million things they do right especially in helping others. How much has these people helped others? I cannot count how many damn times. Booting them off the forum only hurts the others just so people can lick their chops from the corpse they chewed on thinking they are better. Sorry to break it to people....We are all human and screw ups are part of the game. Live and learn, don't be sadistic in making people pay for it.

So because it is a reality that people cheat, we should just accept it and not punish it?

By cheating, there is no competition. The competition is a farce. You don't win, you stole.

[Aberration]

i can understand banning people from competition
but not from the forums
people like skinnee are the reason why me and a bunch of people visit xs on a regular basis
they just contribute way to much to the community, and to have them gone sucks
/2c

I question every contribution they have ever made.

Just like a cop, you get caught doing something bad and every conviction you made gets called into question.

This is not the first time they cheated, merely the first time they were caught. Nothing they have done can be trusted. No scientific tests they have done can be believed.

[Bodar]

I know that you guys dont know who I am and dont care, but I've worked in the entertainment/music industry my whole life.. As a singer/songwriter/producer. I always did the right thing but found that my partners did'nt always agree. We went our own way and it was no big deal.. I'm not trying to start a debate but I've messaged almost every overclocker that I respected and loved for the past 5 years.. There's actually a couple of you in this thread... You know who actually cared.. I was just interested in overclocking but had nothing to offer.. I just wanted to learn, and out of everyone, the only person who taught me or even responded to any of my messages was Andre Yang and Vince Lucido. I really like Massman and Peter tan alot as well because they were always really cool but I'm not in with the overclocking loop.. I'm just me.. For some reason it started becoming my new art form.. The whole point is that I just really appreciate people that care and help others regardless of their rank or how popular they are. I should know what that feels like as a musician. Just because you open for the black crows or reach the top of the overclockers league does'nt mean you ignore people that want to learn.. Andre Yang helped me and for what its worth, it means something.. I was sad to hear the news... There's a few of you here that I've messaged before. You guys are great and I look up to you as an overclocker but I never got a response. Cheers!! I think Dinos is hilarious by the way!!
Also, I only cheated once... and that was during a counter strike lan.. I thought it was funny as hell because my best friend was sooooooo pissed off. It was his server... He still talks about it. haha

[Bodar]

Anyway.. Sorry to go on and on but I love this stuff... I started overclocking because I thought everyone on xs was crazy! I used to read about new projects on here years ago.. I was absolutely amazed and felt like there were alot of people that built what xtreme systems is all about!! Also, I love this place!!

[Sn0wm@n]

I wonder how deep the rabbit hole is here and if FM will start scanning thru other profiles looking for the rest of the cheaters.

that's what i would like to know aswell ....

[GeorgeStorm]

I'm disappointed in both fugger and vapor, as they both knew what was going on, and did nothing?
While it may not be as bad as the cheaters themselves, they still knew what was going on and did nothing, and as people have said before. If you know someones going to rob a bank and do nothing, then you can be prosecuted!
I think the whole thing is just terrible, just what happened???

[Johnny87au]

i love overclocking

[Charles Wirth]

I'm disappointed in both fugger and vapor, as they both knew what was going on, and did nothing?
While it may not be as bad as the cheaters themselves, they still knew what was going on and did nothing, and as people have said before. If you know someones going to rob a bank and do nothing, then you can be prosecuted!
I think the whole thing is just terrible, just what happened???

Having proof is critical and upholds your stance, without it things can go horribly wrong.

[GeorgeStorm]

Mmm I can understand that
In a away, this is a good thing, as now we have got rid of some of the cheaters, although for all we know there may be more.
It's just a pity this kinda thing happens at all.