Would you buy an Opteron SMP board for enthuthiasts?

[BeepBeep2]

Darn you Simon...now I want a holodeck too.

[Deluded]

A shame that AMD is being so shortsighted here... I thought they were interested in the overclocker market, whats with the unlocked processors, AOD, and finally, their TWKR processors. And now they won't consider doing this?

I thought they were in the business to make money?

[[XC] gomeler]

$800 is alot for a desktop part per chip and so is $700 for a board, the sr2 is sub $600, and the mangy are $750 normally i would think that a consumer one could run hotter or maybe use 8 core parts and could be unlocked so u would be around $1200 a chip

I'd be curious how a dual-socket Thuban system would run. Charge $600 for the board and $500 for each processor with an unlocked multiplier. Might give AMD a chance at 3D06/3DVantage due to the thread limits in place in Vantage. If anything it would be a heck of a lot of fun and put a grin on a lot of faces

[Movieman]

how much does a high end 6 core xeon part that fits in an evga sr2 cost ???? about 1500 or so for the unlocked multi version???


i dont see it as too much .. its well within the sub market that these parts originated from .... so i still think that my 800$ and 700$ prediction arent bad

Bottom line for a "cheap" 6 core Westmere(X5650,20/21 multi on turbo) is a grand, top X5680(25/26 multi on turbo) is almost $1700.00 and there are no unlocked multi versions..
Well there are, but not for sale.. saw one in action one night but if I gave you the details I'd have to kill you!

[pokipoki]

Yep, just a call to Asus/Gigabyte/MSI

Hide the OC bios when ECC ram is used, unlock the overclocking bios options when non-ECC memory is used. Note that Asus has a reputation of not updating their bios on server boards. They're slow, maybe 1.5 years on average? Gigabyte/MSI have a better track record than Asus in this regard, and don't compare the consumers boards with this.

Server technicians wouldn't overclock at work, putting their job on the line. If anything bad happens during an OC, just blame it on the non-ECC mode (1+1=3), not the Opteron!

I'm curious, when EVGA designed the SR-2, did it put a dent to Intel's coffers? How?

Why would Intel want to validate their Xeons for overclocking, and spend money on it?

[Movieman]

Yep, just a call to Asus/Gigabyte/MSI

Hide the OC bios when ECC ram is used, unlock the overclocking bios options when non-ECC memory is used. Note that Asus has a reputation of not updating their bios on server boards. They're slow, maybe 1.5 years on average? Gigabyte

Server technicians wouldn't overclock at work, putting their job on the line. If anything bad happens during an OC, just blame it on the non-ECC mode (1+1=3), not the Opteron!

I'm curious, when EVGA designed the SR-2, did it put a dent to Intel's coffers? How?

Why would Intel want to validate their Xeons for overclocking, and spend money on it?

1)I'm on the 2nd bios on the asus board thats been out for maybe a month
ECC or Non ECC shouldn't matter
2)I doubt the SR2 board hurt Intel in any way.
3)The people who built those SR2 systems are the types of people who would have been buying single 980X's or dual westmere's anyway.
4)No validating necessary that I can see.
Bins at X speed and whatever you get ovewr that you do.
That simple.

[pokipoki]

1. Some bonehead decides to overclock a server because he has figured out how to do it. Server crashes. Bad. Data lost, database corrupted. CIO comes to find out what happend. "Servers shouldn't allow overclocking. Why in the hell were we buying consumer products? Get these things out of here now."

Make a clear distinction between server class operating environment and consumer. Server environments uses ECC memory, disallow overclocking in that mode, or any other mode that is peculiar to servers only. Most enthuthiasts won't use ECC memory and doesn't need that much maximum memory anyway.

2. Some person is intel biased and is trying to talk their company into spending more for intel. They point to the fact that Opteron can be overclocked as "proof" that this is a gamer platform and not a "real server."

Xeons can be overclocked to the Himalayas on many boards (uni & dual), and people use it for games too. Especially for Nehalems since both the server and desktop sockets are the same.

The potential sales to consumers could never compensate for the potential damage to the brand.

Envelope the overclocking to non-server operating environments and this will be a no-occurrence.

Every morning I walk into my office and try to convince the world that there is a better choice for server platforms. Anything that detracts from that will not help me meet my goals.

We are helping you in this regard by testing stability till the wee hours of morning and saving PPDs when folding (clusters too), and we leave our mark everywhere in forums and statistics.

It's just a call to the board makers.

[crazydiamond]

maybe 32nm desktop chips will be designed to work in 2p board, we can dream right?

[Sn0wm@n]

Bottom line for a "cheap" 6 core Westmere(X5650,20/21 multi on turbo) is a grand, top X5680(25/26 multi on turbo) is almost $1700.00 and there are no unlocked multi versions..
Well there are, but not for sale.. saw one in action one night but if I gave you the details I'd have to kill you!

thanks for the clarification movieman ...

[JF-AMD]

Perhaps AMD has a inferiority complex and their subcontiously afraid to become the dominant CPU manufacturer?

I have already explained that allowing overclocking on opteron would result in lower net shipments of Opteron products. We would end up selling less because the net decrease in server sales would never be offset by the small number of enthusiast sales.

If I want to sell more I need to keep Opteron focused where it is and leave the Phenom to enthusiasts.

[stangracin3]

I have already explained that allowing overclocking on opteron would result in lower net shipments of Opteron products. We would end up selling less because the net decrease in server sales would never be offset by the small number of enthusiast sales.

If I want to sell more I need to keep Opteron focused where it is and leave the Phenom to enthusiasts.

i could have swore they suggested a Phenom FX or the like a few posts up

1) Phenom FX doesn't sound like opteron
2) It isn't spelled like opteron either

[El Gappo]

i could have swore they suggested a Phenom FX or the like a few posts up

1) Phenom FX doesn't sound like opteron
2) It isn't spelled like opteron either

If by an incredible stroke of luck something should happen because of this innocent thread then it should be called the Phenom XS edition

[blindbox]

I understand that everyone wants to overclock my parts

WHAT?!

This is too much for my heart.

Okay, back on topic.
That s7's results of taking WR (hell, that's only at 3 GHz!) has a point. Come on, if XS can push these babies to 6 and maybe even 7 GHz, that would be a real great PR stunt.

s7 has proven that these are OC friendly chips, so let everyone join in the fun! During the 4x4 days, AMD didn't have the tech to execute it properly. Now AMD does. What's stopping you guys?

Hmmm when will s7 put his ES chip under LN2?

[Ket]

I have already explained that allowing overclocking on opteron would result in lower net shipments of Opteron products. We would end up selling less because the net decrease in server sales would never be offset by the small number of enthusiast sales.

If I want to sell more I need to keep Opteron focused where it is and leave the Phenom to enthusiasts.

Sorry, but all your saying sounds like poor excuses and poor marketing. I only switched to intel because of the crap nvidia chipsets you let near your CPUs and I would happily switch back if I saw AMD apply themselves. You guys are falling down in a lot of areas, and here are just a couple I can think of off the top of my head;

- As already mentioned poor marketing. How on earth do you expect to grow market shares if you don't advertise nearly enough to the general public? The last time I saw a AMD ad on TV was 3 years ago, I last saw a intel ad on TV 2 days ago. This is why Joe Average buys intel because they know barely anything (if anything) about AMD and why the sales clerk advises intel because their equally clueless. In contrast intel throw out ads all the time in differing flavors to the public about their stuff. Intel are essentially unchallenged in the public sector in this regard. I'm glad I don't run my business as AMD do.

- Unique Markets. Look at intel, their fine with a couple enthusiast server class boards available. Does this hurt them? No. Why not? Because their in a unique market that appeals to those who run programs for causes and these boards are simply not available in the business/corporate arena. Intel don't have to make any special changes to their Xeon CPUs. By allowing a few server class boards into the enthusiast market all intel are doing is increasing accessability and popularity of that hardware, and guess what that does? Raise sales of their Xeon CPUs and enthusiast server boards. Are you seriously saying your fine with crippling Opteron sales because your too stubborn to admit your wrong? Your argument of technicians "bashing" AMD for a few enthusiast server boards is a fruitless one. What idiot in a business/corporate environment would pick a enthusiast server board? They would have to be as retarded as your business philosophy on the sale of server grade enthusiast boards and CPUs in the enthusiast arena.

I could do a better advertising/marketing job for AMD, much better.

I tell you these things not to nag or critisise, but to make you realise AMDs true potential if you address some glaring issues.

[stangracin3]

snip...

+1

[Particle]

I'm going to have to back up JF here. All I'm seeing is a bunch of people complaining that they can't get something they want. I want it too, but his reasons make sense. You can't just disagree based on gut feelings with any degree of authority. He says his guys have actually investigated the numbers--you know, using statistics and people who actually do this stuff for a living. I'm going to have to take that information as much more authoritative than a bunch of enthusiasts biased because they want something they're not getting.

As an addendum: You can't just compare Opteron overclocking to Xeon overclocking. That would be realistic if AMD had the same reputation and similar market share as Intel, but as they're currently the minor of the two they basically have to do everything twice as well as Intel in order to maintain their reputation. At least, that's how it is for us in the real world when we go to get purchases approved at regular companies. There is even a saying warning people daring to buy AMD-based servers around this region: "Nobody has ever been fired for buying an Intel." The meaning is that people have been fired for ordering AMD systems, regardless of if or if not any problems down the line were/are actually caused by the AMD hardware. The people who sign our checks don't have the same level of understanding and don't really care. It's your butt on the line.

[stangracin3]

I'm going to have to back up JF here. All I'm seeing is a bunch of people complaining that they can't get something they want. I want it too, but his reasons make sense. You can't just disagree based on gut feelings with any degree of authority. He says his guys have actually investigated the numbers--you know, using statistics and people who actually do this stuff for a living. I'm going to have to take that information as much more authoritative than a bunch of enthusiasts biased because they want something they're not getting.

ive found that alot of these people that do statistics for a living are dumber than a doorknob. they only ask companies that actually build servers not the end user or buyer as it might be.

now if you won't do a Phenom FX or a "Friendly Bios" ATLEAST GET SOME COMMERCIALS OUT THERE SO YOU CAN GET MORE MARKET SHARE!!!!!
its like you are trying to let Intel win. more like the whole marketing department is on intels payroll instead of AMD.
if i were AMD i would fire the marketing department for being a complete FAILURE.

[Wiggy McShades]

If you think we are missing a huge market, just remember that we did 4x4, so we know exactly how large the market is (not).

The ONE board was terrible and the cpu's were over priced (at the time a core 2 raped the 4x4 setup at a lower price point). You guys tried to serve a half baked product and no one liked it, that shouldn't be a surprise. Don't call it an opteron just name it FX.

[MrMojoZ]

I could do a better advertising/marketing job for AMD, much better.

I tell you these things not to nag or critisise, but to make you realise AMDs true potential if you address some glaring issues.

I don't think telling him how much better you are than him at his job is going to help you get your point across. Comes across as a bit childish.

AMD needs to focus on bottom line stuff. Releasing a "Phenom FX" will make them jack nothing. No matter how much more awesome you are at advertising.

I'd certainly like to own one of course.

[Particle]

ive found that alot of these people that do statistics for a living are dumber than a doorknob.

I'm sure you have, but that doesn't say anything about the people JF works with.

[JF-AMD]

For those that say we are missing a "huge market", do you have actual market share data on the number of 2P desktop boards being sold? I think that would go a long way towards shoring up your assertions. If you have a good business case, I would be more than happy to take that to the phenom folks.

I can tell you, that taking an Opteron and rebranding it as phenom would be costly. You are basically doubling the back end validation, qualification and dev resources. Not design resources, but pretty much everything else (there is not nearly as much leverage as you would guess.)

I have an open req for a marketing person, if anyone wants to submit a resume to me, PM me. I am dead serious. The job is in Austin, Texas and would require you to live here.

[JF-AMD]

ive found that alot of these people that do statistics for a living are dumber than a doorknob. they only ask companies that actually build servers not the end user or buyer as it might be.

now if you won't do a Phenom FX or a "Friendly Bios" ATLEAST GET SOME COMMERCIALS OUT THERE SO YOU CAN GET MORE MARKET SHARE!!!!!
its like you are trying to let Intel win. more like the whole marketing department is on intels payroll instead of AMD.
if i were AMD i would fire the marketing department for being a complete FAILURE.

Advertising is expensive, and to the "rank and file" consumers, probably 80% of them can't tell you what processor is in their computer. Go as 10 random people on the street what processor is in their PC and see the response.

Would you rather have AMD spend its money on advertising (actually low rate of return) or on developing products (probably higher rate of return.)

If you want to impact the consumers that buy the majority of the PCs (i.e. market share) then you need to influence the best buy sales guy.

But, hey, I am a server guy, so I am no expert here.

[pokipoki]

Realistically, does overclocking an Opteron undermine its reliability as a server platform? How do you choose/measure reliability anyway? I'm sure it won't be by our standards (enthuthiast). It's confusing to mix overclocking and reliability in the same pot.

People who decide which server platform to adopt have their own criteria to guide them. How well Opteron overclocks is not one of the criteria.

What we are petitioning here is for an extra feature, something that does not work in X (server environment) but works in Y (consumer environment). Until we make that distinction clear, we're going in circles. BTW, no one is trying to change/degrade Opteron's image.

[Deluded]

Advertising is expensive, and to the "rank and file" consumers, probably 80% of them can't tell you what processor is in their computer. Go as 10 random people on the street what processor is in their PC and see the response.

Would you rather have AMD spend its money on advertising (actually low rate of return) or on developing products (probably higher rate of return.)

If you want to impact the consumers that buy the majority of the PCs (i.e. market share) then you need to influence the best buy sales guy.

But, hey, I am a server guy, so I am no expert here.

Ouch, guys. Ouch. The marketing director has spoken, fellas. If you guys think you can do better than the marketing director, then you're welcome to apply at AMD and see where that takes you.

PS. Don't you have to know your target audience in order to effectively market your products to them....? Isn't that in marketing 101?

[MrMojoZ]

PS. Don't you have to know your target audience in order to effectively market your products to them....? Isn't that in marketing 101?

He markets servers and said he is a server guy. Isn't that exactly who you want marketing servers?