Would you buy an Opteron SMP board for enthuthiasts?

[zir_blazer]

yes but making 2 cpu's work in unison + OC good is rather complex.......

Making a single chip work + OC is not so complex.

I should refer you to s7's thread where he easily ramped up 2 unlocked ES chip on air and set global AMD wprime records.

View count was stellar.......guess no one is interested though

Do you want a Uniprocessor Magny Cours? It should be as hard as tweaking a Dual Opteron, as you're forcing both two dies and two Memory Banks, even though the two dies are now on a single package.
Besides, I don't see why it should be hard. They should have BIOS options to reach on the bare minimum the average overclocking headroom with current standard Server quality parts, something that should be very easy. From nominal, to average overclock, to extreme overclock, there are a whole bunch of differences and requeriments.
Pretty much anyone with free time can reach average overclock on a decent enough Motherboard (Processors are mostly out of question as their usually act the same. The only that is needed is Motherboard and BIOS support, so I actually don't see the point on requesting this to JF-AMD when an independent Motherboard manufacturer could decide to provide this flexibility themselves), or ignoring the entire overclocking deparment but being able to tweak the parts to meet the actual performance or power consumption needs. JF-AMD mentioned in other Thread that there are some Server customers that would like to undervolt Server Processors to reduce power consumption as much as possible when the performance isn't needed, but that also falls in the enthusiast class BIOS tweaking. Oh, do you forgot already this Thread when I asked flexible options in the BIOS for undervolting in mainstream consumer or enthusiast class Motherboards and everyone ignored me (You included)?

Thread views doesn't means sales, actually, they just mean that the Thread title is appealing for the casual viewer. I actually don't pay attention to extreme overclocks because they aren't useful for 24/7, requiere extremely expensive equipment, and are above the point in the Frequency/Voltage curve where power consumption skyrockets for just a 100 MHz jump. These things on practice are totally useless with the exception of bragging rights, and I won't spend my money on them.

wasnt the 4x4 of whatever the 4 core 2p fx socket slower than the intel core2dup, and it cost way more at a time when almost nothing was multithreaded.

The 4x4 platform was AMD sort of response to Core 2 Quad, and Intel replied to it with Skulltrail. And it would happen exactly the same right now because the per Core performance of K10s are slower than Nehalems.

[JF-AMD]

If you think we are missing a huge market, just remember that we did 4x4, so we know exactly how large the market is (not).

Why does everyone want to overclock Opteron? Why not ask for a 12-core Phenom? We just aren't going to risk the Opteron name trying to take it into the enthusiast market, it just can't be justified.

You should be pushing on the client guys.

[chew*]

If you think we are missing a huge market, just remember that we did 4x4, so we know exactly how large the market is (not).

Why does everyone want to overclock Opteron? Why not ask for a 12-core Phenom? We just aren't going to risk the Opteron name trying to take it into the enthusiast market, it just can't be justified.

You should be pushing on the client guys.

lets rewind back to socket 939......need i say more?

Better silicon was to be found in server grade than desktop grade.

as far as 4x4 apples to oranges........these chips OC like hell........those chips had a cold bug and couldn't OC even 50% of what these do.

We don't want to OC opteron but at this point we have no other option but to in order to stay competitive.......so rebrand the chip.......bang seperated from server division.

I can show you this really really really cool opteron chip i have........it's am3 package... but cpuid says its not an opty

[Ket]

If you think we are missing a huge market, just remember that we did 4x4, so we know exactly how large the market is (not).

Why does everyone want to overclock Opteron? Why not ask for a 12-core Phenom? We just aren't going to risk the Opteron name trying to take it into the enthusiast market, it just can't be justified.

You should be pushing on the client guys.

Then you will forever play catchup to intel. *Error.. Cyclic redundancy check. Stack Trace: Lack of drive to capture market shares.*

[BeepBeep2]

If you think we are missing a huge market, just remember that we did 4x4, so we know exactly how large the market is (not).

Why does everyone want to overclock Opteron? Why not ask for a 12-core Phenom? We just aren't going to risk the Opteron name trying to take it into the enthusiast market, it just can't be justified.

You should be pushing on the client guys.

Because were all nuts and it just sounds like damn fun.

We ARE asking for a damn 12-core Phenom. Sort of. Name the processor series "Angelica" for all we care.

4x4 sucked. Athlon 64 X2 was already way behind Core 2 Duo and AMD couldn't design a quad core for it's life at that point in time.
Having two Athlon 64 X2's on a single mobo sucked MORE. One peice of plus another peice of does not make a cookie.

Why don't you throw about 5 or so Magny-Cours chips at the Desktop guys faces and tell them to do something with it.

[Movieman]

If you think we are missing a huge market, just remember that we did 4x4, so we know exactly how large the market is (not).

Why does everyone want to overclock Opteron? Why not ask for a 12-core Phenom? We just aren't going to risk the Opteron name trying to take it into the enthusiast market, it just can't be justified.

You should be pushing on the client guys.

Good evening John,
Just some thoughts and I know you realise how I feel and to some extent understand your thinking but ponder this:
1) Intels name isn't hurt by the EVGA SR2 board with it's over clocking capabilities,at least not that I can see.
2) The 4X4 was a dog in terms of sales because it was an idea that was ahead of the technology needed.
It ran too hot at even stock speeds and I think you'd agree that your current processors are miles ahead of it.
3) As a guy mentioned above, No one is looking to have AMD spend lots of money validating anything here.
All people are looking for is a bios that allows changes on a dual MC system such as the Asus KGPE-16 board and that is a top choice as it's theonly dual MC board that has 2-PCI-16 slots.
Also not one that is being used as a "server" bymost companies.
Strictly a workstation design but a very good and stable one from my short experience with it.
Adjustments or vcore,vdimm,etc such as the EVGA SR2 has and we take it from there.
4) Last,if I blow up apart because I went over spec I do not RMA it.
That's my choice and my responsibility.

[chew*]

the plot thickens......

First let me clear anyone at AMD i may have contact with.......

This chip did not come from anyone at AMD.

I have my way's and sources and explanation ends there......

Who wants to bet i will kick the living hell out of any retail mass produced "c2" stepping with this cpu on ln2



Whats this.....wheres the opty socket packaging

[chew*]

Thread views doesn't means sales, actually, they just mean that the Thread title is appealing for the casual viewer. I actually don't pay attention to extreme overclocks because they aren't useful for 24/7, requiere extremely expensive equipment, and are above the point in the Frequency/Voltage curve where power consumption skyrockets for just a 100 MHz jump. These things on practice are totally useless with the exception of bragging rights, and I won't spend my money on them.

So s7's air OC on stock volts is what you call extreme? Thats all it took to set the AMD global wprime Wr just some FYI

Best to research before stating

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=233565

[El Gappo]

the plot thickens......

First let me clear anyone at AMD i may have contact with.......

This chip did not come from anyone at AMD.

I have my way's and sources and explanation ends there......

Who wants to bet i will kick the living hell out of any retail mass produced "c2" stepping with this cpu on ln2



Whats this.....wheres the opty socket packaging

Very early c2 also. Lets see it you jammy sod

Then lets see some of those cpu's with a phenom sticker over the top and a 12 core inside that we can smash some records with.

The tech is there, USE IT!

[zir_blazer]

Why does everyone want to overclock Opteron? Why not ask for a 12-core Phenom? We just aren't going to risk the Opteron name trying to take it into the enthusiast market, it just can't be justified.

Personally, is not that I want to play with Opterons just because I like the brand name, but because if I wanted a Dual Processor platform, the Opteron platform is already estabilished and could fulfill my wished purposes with minor modifications. These minor modifications just includes BIOS controls to allow manual modifications to some values like raising or lower the Voltage, the Multiplier, Base Clock, and other things, as you would expect from a tweakable enthusiast Motherboard and not the one of an OEM machine. I don't care if their brand name is Opteron, Phenom, Athlon, Sempron or Duron, that is just for marketers :p
The logical advancement when you aren't satisfied by what a Uniprocessor platform can do is going Dual Processor, that is a consumer-no server-yes space. Talking to some consumer guy will get me the exact opposite view about that market needs and how useless it would be to design a Dual Processor platform (That would be mostly a copypaste of what a Dual Opteron platform already got, plus some add this and remove that, that was what 4x4 platform was). Actually, the Processor is what less matters, because if it would exist a Motherboard with a BIOS that allows tweaks, the Processor would do what the BIOS says and that is. The brand name doesn't matter, the silicon that it is made of does and its features (For example, Opterons 2xx and 8xx had the same silicon but the 8xx allowed me to use two more Coherent Hyper Transport Links for up to 8-Way. The 2xx does not).
As I stated on some other Thread, Opteron created for themselves an important brand name among enthusiast because some guy decided to use A64FX quality bins on even the cheapest parts, and those Opteron parts were all Toledos with 1 MB Cache L2 per Core while comparable A64X2 at the same price were Manchesters with 512 KB Cache L2 per Core of lesser bin quality. So, if for the same price Opterons had more Cache and had a higher Frequency headroom, they were a better choice any day. Had you sell them as Duron, they would be exactly as popular in the niche market that they were famous at.
I don't care about brand names, just features enabled in the silicon, that silicon quality, and possible expansion of the platform infrastructure without having to do full platform replacements.

Besides, I don't like that consumer guys thinks that the product designed for the enthusiast market requieres tons of PCB colors, possibily useless features, and awfully high price premiums. That is why looking at how to adapt the closest thing to what I want is easier that asking someone to design it from scratch and aiming at other market whose needs are fancier and more expensive.

[Ket]

Perhaps AMD has a inferiority complex and their subcontiously afraid to become the dominant CPU manufacturer?

[Movieman]

the plot thickens......

First let me clear anyone at AMD i may have contact with.......

This chip did not come from anyone at AMD.

I have my way's and sources and explanation ends there......

Who wants to bet i will kick the living hell out of any retail mass produced "c2" stepping with this cpu on ln2



Whats this.....wheres the opty socket packaging

I remember that chipand know where it came from..
I also have a board here thats yours if you want it to play with those cpu's..

[zir_blazer]

So s7's air OC on stock volts is what you call extreme? Thats all it took to set the AMD global wprime Wr just some FYI

Best to research before stating

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=233565

Actually that is what I would expect from an average overclock and conservative enthusiast. I was expecting that the overclocking crowd wanted doing voltage mods, phase cooling and other fancy and risky things on Server based Motherboards.

[Sn0wm@n]

the plot thickens......

First let me clear anyone at AMD i may have contact with.......

This chip did not come from anyone at AMD.

I have my way's and sources and explanation ends there......

Who wants to bet i will kick the living hell out of any retail mass produced "c2" stepping with this cpu on ln2



Whats this.....wheres the opty socket packaging

1300 series opteron???


@ JF-AMD: if amd were to make an FX branded dual socket workstation for a decent price it would sell well ..... 700$ motherboard 800$ per cpu and you have a winning combo that still is in the price of current opteron pricing ... now the hard part... a pcb partner who would jump on such idea ????? ... one can dream

[Ket]

I think our job here is done fellas. Theres nothing AMD can do to convince us otherwise because we aren't joe average, and actually know what we are talking about. Theres much food for thought for AMD in this thread, but ultimately, I wouldn't expect anything to happen as a result.

[chew*]

I remember that chipand know where it came from..
I also have a board here thats yours if you want it to play with those cpu's..

There is alot more than meets the eye with that CPU, it supports ddr 3 and goes right into an AM3 board......

This source no one knows about......it's my super duper secret source so not who you think either.....

[Chumbucket843]

That's ONE board

read on. it's actually 22 and that's just from wcg guys.

[BeepBeep2]

There is alot more than meets the eye with that CPU, it supports ddr 3 and goes right into an AM3 board......

This source no one knows about......it's my super duper secret source so not who you think either.....

That's that "945 ES" isn't it.

read on. it's actually 22 and that's just from wcg guys.

I meant one model. That model is flawed...and just that one.

[demonkevy666]

I though we had persuade board makers for this not amd ?....

[Sn0wm@n]

There is alot more than meets the eye with that CPU, it supports ddr 3 and goes right into an AM3 board......

This source no one knows about......it's my super duper secret source so not who you think either.....

any numbers to go with that super duper cpu ?

[zir_blazer]

There is alot more than meets the eye with that CPU, it supports ddr 3 and goes right into an AM3 board......

This source no one knows about......it's my super duper secret source so not who you think either.....

Looks like an Opteron 1xxx (There were for AM2, AM2+ and AM3) with a preproduction OPN.
Opterons 1xxx series shares the Socket AM3 infrastructure for Uniprocessors and are compatible with Desktop Motherboards, but are intended to be used with Server Motherboards. As I never saw overclocking results, I don't know if they are still using top bin or not. But a Retail sample would be better proof.

[64NOMIS]

As I read I mused as follows...

Aside from massive core count MC is simply the wrong chip on the wrong infrastructure for OC. If you are curious about what you would achieve, go OC a Phenom II X6 and know that those setting are better than you would ever get for MC. The cost to get an enthusiast-class MC infrastructure on par with, say, a Crossfire 4 are basically insane. An MC customer is already getting great consolidation and performance, and adding a second box or second processor is astonishingly affordable and a lot safer than OC.

A dual socket Phenom II board would be much more interesting. Easier to achieve stable results and potentially finding a home in the visualization space (and a couple others). It's a completely different world when Quadfather walked the earth and I think such a board would be interesting. It's not going to happen but it would be interesting.

The fundamental problem in client is multi-core scaling and right now there are a few application categories that love cores, and with most other categories completely saturated, GPU bound, unable to figure out what to do with more. The ultimate use for the PC in entertainment - the Holodeck (and it's predecessors, more on this soon) - needs CPU and GPU balanced performance. To achieve this in a reasonable TDP does not involve a dual headed monster, rather, a powerful CPU and a powerful GPU - those create plenty of noise and can pack plenty of cyberpower, thank you very much.

In server land there is infinite need for consolidated cloud compute enabled by virtualization. For mobility, there is infinite pull right now for sub-10W compute performance. So many reasons why I would love to see an exciting low power platform - I want smartphone DIY.

And I want a holodeck.

[zanzabar]

If you think we are missing a huge market, just remember that we did 4x4, so we know exactly how large the market is (not).

Why does everyone want to overclock Opteron? Why not ask for a 12-core Phenom? We just aren't going to risk the Opteron name trying to take it into the enthusiast market, it just can't be justified.

You should be pushing on the client guys.

call it anything but the overclocking community would love some of the stuff that is opteron only, i have in the past used both opterons and xeons for gaming and overclocking as they had what i wanted, call it an FX or a phenom MP or something else, it cant cost that much to sell something with a different branding and it would allow for better benching so that would lead to better sales, like with the 939 days

1300 series opteron???


@ JF-AMD: if amd were to make an FX branded dual socket workstation for a decent price it would sell well ..... 700$ motherboard 800$ per cpu and you have a winning combo that still is in the price of current opteron pricing ... now the hard part... a pcb partner who would jump on such idea ????? ... one can dream

$800 is alot for a desktop part per chip and so is $700 for a board, the sr2 is sub $600, and the mangy are $750 normally i would think that a consumer one could run hotter or maybe use 8 core parts and could be unlocked so u would be around $1200 a chip


maybe with buldozer could there be a consumer 2p unit

and for the people in amd, when the stuff in QA do the bioses ever support multi changes or vcore/memory adjustment or changing ram timings

[Movieman]

As I read I mused as follows...

Aside from massive core count MC is simply the wrong chip on the wrong infrastructure for OC. If you are curious about what you would achieve, go OC a Phenom II X6 and know that those setting are better than you would ever get for MC. The cost to get an enthusiast-class MC infrastructure on par with, say, a Crossfire 4 are basically insane. An MC customer is already getting great consolidation and performance, and adding a second box or second processor is astonishingly affordable and a lot safer than OC.

A dual socket Phenom II board would be much more interesting. Easier to achieve stable results and potentially finding a home in the visualization space (and a couple others). It's a completely different world when Quadfather walked the earth and I think such a board would be interesting. It's not going to happen but it would be interesting.

The fundamental problem in client is multi-core scaling and right now there are a few application categories that love cores, and with most other categories completely saturated, GPU bound, unable to figure out what to do with more. The ultimate use for the PC in entertainment - the Holodeck (and it's predecessors, more on this soon) - needs CPU and GPU balanced performance. To achieve this in a reasonable TDP does not involve a dual headed monster, rather, a powerful CPU and a powerful GPU - those create plenty of noise and can pack plenty of cyberpower, thank you very much.

In server land there is infinite need for consolidated cloud compute enabled by virtualization. For mobility, there is infinite pull right now for sub-10W compute performance. So many reasons why I would love to see an exciting low power platform - I want smartphone DIY.

And I want a holodeck.

Jeez, another one of these puny single socket guys has to toss in his 2 cents!
( Yes, you know I'm teasing)
Your missing the point of all this Simon but lets talk numbers and I admit to being weak on the AMD end but I'll try;
1) Your saying it won't work or work as effectively as we'd like and be "satisfied" with for lack of a better term?
If so thats a subjective feeling.
I'll talk just from my own viewpoint.
The Asus KGPE-D16 board I have here with the 2-6168 MC's(1900MHz) is what I'd describe as a incredibly stable system that runs nice and cool BUT for my uses is a little on the weak side when compared with others.
To me it's all about seeing what is possible.
This runs at 9.5x200 for 1900mhz.
What would it do at 9.5x250 for 2375mhz?
Maybe 300 isn't doable or maybe it is but the bottom line is there is "more" hidden in these chips and why not find out what that "more" is?
The cost is only a bios and not a complete one, just a modded one so we're not talking huge $$ here.
Hell, I'll toss Asus $200.00 now towards the cost of doing the bios and I imagine others will also.
We like to explore and that is what drives us.
It is the chase of the unknown that you see here at XS.
From that chase comes knowledge that all can benefit from.
All we need at this point is from someone at AMD to make a call to Asus and say we have no objections to a modded bios for the KGPE-D16 board.
It's really the only choice as it's the only one with 2-PCI-e X16 slots and on top of that appears to be a very well built board.
Beautiful layout.
The defense rests.

[Sn0wm@n]

call it anything but the overclocking community would love some of the stuff that is opteron only, i have in the past used both opterons and xeons for gaming and overclocking as they had what i wanted, call it an FX or a phenom MP or something else, it cant cost that much to sell something with a different branding and it would allow for better benching so that would lead to better sales, like with the 939 days



$800 is alot for a desktop part per chip and so is $700 for a board, the sr2 is sub $600, and the mangy are $750 normally i would think that a consumer one could run hotter or maybe use 8 core parts and could be unlocked so u would be around $1200 a chip


maybe with buldozer could there be a consumer 2p unit

and for the people in amd, when the stuff in QA do the bioses ever support multi changes or vcore/memory adjustment or changing ram timings

how much does a high end 6 core xeon part that fits in an evga sr2 cost ???? about 1500 or so for the unlocked multi version???


i dont see it as too much .. its well within the sub market that these parts originated from .... so i still think that my 800$ and 700$ prediction arent bad