"Reasonable" Cost

[n00b 0f l337]

I pose this question every once in a while, mainly just to see what people are feeling and how they're wallets are feeling (I know plenty of us aren't exactly having fun with this job market).

The question is simple;

What is a reasonable cost to a phase system?

Reasonable for a cascade?

Mainly a, what would you pay?

And what do you want from it? Features, casing, adjustment, load capacity.

[Buckeye]

By reasonable, what is the amount a builder shoulld actually be paid to build these systems, not counting the actual costs of all parts becasue that can very.

Your guys time is money and you should also consider costs of returns, repairs for shipped broken units to be factored in the cost of the unit.

You know, run this thing like a business.

[n00b 0f l337]

Well yeah, but even then, sometimes people are willing to pay say $600 for a phase, while many others may be willing to pay $800.
Many may find $700 to be an unreasonably high cost. Obviously everyone wants the cheapest possible.

Obviously making enough of a profit to be able to cover future issues and some spending cash is important.

[One_Hertz]

$800 is just fine for a solid unit. $2500ish for a cascade.

[bazx]

how much someone will pay for a unit will depend on who is building it imo

also weather there is a support/service/warranty built into the cost

[n00b 0f l337]

$800 is just fine for a solid unit. $2500ish for a cascade.

Assuming peak quality, and 6-12 months of agreed service. Assuming adequate instruction is provided for generic use of the unit, and abuse caused by the user is not counted.
I would say those prices are a bit higher then I've worked with.
Anyone else agree around those?

I'm looking to crunch the numbers to try and make "the unit". Almost like an end all be all.

[kitfit1]

The question "What is a reasonable cost to a phase system?" can and does vary a lot.
Probably the most important thing in that is if you are using New parts or second hand parts in the build.
For instance, in the UK, a new 1HP rotary will set you back £300/$442 and a second hand one wwould cost about £60/$88.
A new 1900w Condenser would be about £80/$118 and second hand would be £30/$44.
As you can see, a very large price difference. When building an SS to sell in the $800 price bracket, you obviously can't use "new" parts (you'd make a loss).
But is the buyer expecting new parts or second hand. My guess is that they are expecting new parts.

[n00b 0f l337]

Ah, in the USA, new compressors can be found cheaper then that.
I can get good brand new Danfoss SC12's around $200 a pop. It's reasonable in some cases. The condensers are a bit harder.
Some resort to ebay, and old stock things like that, but new/new-stock only I think $800 is possible in USA.

[kitfit1]

Yes, an SC12 is a good example of "Rip off Britain" A brand new SC12DX in the UK is £465/$685, which makes that $800 SS even more unatainable me thinks.

[sdumper]

Reasonable cost is to pay for your materials, shipping and labor.
End of story....

If you produce quality units your labor cost goes up.

[chuchnit]

Reasonable cost is to pay for your materials, shipping and labor.
End of story....

If you produce quality units your labor cost goes up.

I think I know what you are thinking on this idea. Why not price out what it would take to build a 24/7 style SS tuned to say 225-250w at decent temps. Then offer add-ons to work your way up to a benching only style unit. The only way to really find what is a "good price" is to have interactions with many buyers and see where the market prices these units. The market driven price should leave room for a little profit to make both buy/seller satisfied. I think our very few active builders in the US have found that market price through doing business.

[Splave]

$400 for SS, $1750 dual stager

i7 Able, 3-325watt capacity. I know it can be done
To me case means nothing, noise means nothing, performance over everything but thats just me

[sdumper]

$400 for SS, $1750 dual stager

i7 Able, 3-325watt capacity. I know it can be done
To me case means nothing, noise means nothing, performance over everything but thats just me

Splave thats unfortunately the problem.
People think that SS units are cheap to build.
Please read the entire thread because the intial cost breakdown is just the start

Assuming some deep discounts through trade relations and bargaining.
Compressor 100
filter 5
Cap 5.3
Insulation 11
1/4 5
3/8 5
Wire 5
Evap 35
HoldDown 35
Sleeve 7
Shraeder 3
Refrigerant 20
Brazing 10
Electric 10
Suction 20
Condenser/Fan 125
Plug 7
bolts 2
Materials …………….. 410.3


This means the builder would not only not charge you for any labor but he would actually spend his own money to build the unit for you

But wait were still not done....

Load testing takes electricity and thermal paste which isn't free.
(Think 300 watts of load testing plus the phase unit running over night).
Vacuuming takes electricity too which also isn't free
Dont forget POE oil because you need to change out the compressor oil (1 gallon of POE runs almost 50.00 ... yep expensive stuff).
Still not done because your vacuum pump also requires fresh oil for each use...add on another 20.00 for a gallon and figure you use about 7 ounces a pop.

Now lets discuss the stuff no one likes to think about...
To build phase units you need equipment and equipment is very expensive with a finite life so like it or not the builders need to factor in depreciation cost into each and every build.

Last but not least...suppose the unit sold has a problem. This means the builder will need to have the unit shipped back to him and then repaired. Lets just hope the repair isnt a compressor

So as you can probably understand 400.00 is not even close to a realistic price.

[chuchnit]

^ In other words phase builders pretty much do this for fun/hobby because profit just isn't there to make a living? At current market price... I'm taking it that means that Cooler Express doesn't have high margins either unless they buy in enough volume to get steep component discounts? I just don't see them selling thousands of units a year.

[sdumper]

^ In other words phase builders pretty much do this for fun/hobby because profit just isn't there to make a living? At current market price... I'm taking it that means that Cooler Express doesn't have high margins either unless they buy in enough volume to get steep component discounts? I just don't see them selling thousands of units a year.

Cooler Express builds more than just SS units and the SS division is global so economy of scale kicks in but your right profit margins are very tight....

[closeracing]

$700 to $800 seems fair to me for a well built ss with new parts.

[gosmeyer]

Consumer A may be willing to pay $1000.00 for a unit from Builder B--However Consumer C may only be willing to pay $750.00, and it's value.......$425.00

Reasonable cost is too subjective. It may be worth it to me to pay another $500.00 just so I don't have the same unit as someone else.

What is a reasonable cost to a phase system? What the buyer agrees to