AM3 future

[hrvojezg00]

does anybody know what is the future of AM3 socket before G34 comes? will there be x8 or x12 (whatever the core multiplier will be) and when do G34 desktop processors come?

[SEA]

There is no relation between server socket G34 and desktop AM3. Sure AM3 will be with bulldozer in enthusiast class, it suppose to me AM3+ with backward compatibility (or some call it AM3R2), while mainstream will be new socket for Llano APU

[hrvojezg00]

so bulldozer will fit AM3 socket?u made my day.thnx

[SEA]

Here it is in AMD roadmap:
Slide taken from AMD presentation from here

[zir_blazer]

Actually it worries me much more the fact that Llano will not be Socket compatible with AM3, and that means that it will not be compatible with Bulldozer launch platform that is ironically compatible with the current one. The fact that Llano is based on K10 and aimed at mainstream and budget, means that if you go for the cheaper platform, you are restricted to not have a Bulldozer drop in replacement when it gets launched. This basically segments the Desktop platforms in two, like Intel did with LGA 1156 and 1366

[Nightingale]

See this is Why I love AMD. Backwards compatability. Unlike Intel who changes socket for every new cpu.

[Helloworld_98]

See this is Why I love AMD. Backwards compatability. Unlike Intel who changes socket for every new cpu.

well 1366 lasted two architecures, and 775 lasted 3 or 4

[Jowy Atreides]

Actually it worries me much more the fact that Llano will not be Socket compatible with AM3, and that means that it will not be compatible with Bulldozer launch platform that is ironically compatible with the current one. The fact that Llano is based on K10 and aimed at mainstream and budget, means that if you go for the cheaper platform, you are restricted to not have a Bulldozer drop in replacement when it gets launched. This basically segments the Desktop platforms in two, like Intel did with LGA 1156 and 1366

...

[spoiler]

Next-Generation Technologies for Next-Generation Graphics

* While AMD maintains momentum in rolling out several more DirectX 11 capable parts from its wildly successful ATI Radeon™ HD 5000 series in 2H09 and 1H10 including graphics cards codenamed “Cedar,” “Hemlock,” and “Redwood,” AMD will also introduce DirectX 11 capable members of the ATI Mobility Radeon™ HD 5000 series in 2010, bringing incredible graphics capabilities and stunning HD video to AMD’s new notebook platforms.
* “Bobcat” is AMD’s low-power x86 processor core aimed at notebook processing in ultrathin and netbook form factors, and designed to be extremely small, highly flexible and single threaded.
* “Bulldozer” is AMD’s completely new, high performance architecture for the mainstream server, mainstream desktop and notebook PC markets that employs a new approach to multithreaded compute performance for achieving advanced efficiency and throughput. “Bulldozer” is designed to give AMD an exceptional CPU option for linking with GPUs in highly scalable, single-chip Accelerated Processing Unit (APU) configurations.

Notebook Platforms:

* “Danube” is AMD’s new platform for the mainstream notebook market and will feature the new “Champlain” CPU, the first quad-core processor offered by AMD specifically for the notebook market that includes 2M cache and DDR3 memory support.
* “Sabine,” is AMD’s new mainstream notebook platform slated for 2011 and will be the first notebook platform to feature the quad-core “Llano” APU.
* “Nile” is AMD’s next generation platform for ultrathin notebooks and is scheduled for 1H10, with the dual-core “Geneva” CPU using DDR3 memory technology and is being designed to yield more than 7 hours of battery life under normal usage conditions.
* “Brazos” is AMD’s ultrathin notebook and netbook platform slated for 2011, and “Ontario” is the APU based on the “Bobcat” core.

Desktop Platforms:

* “Leo” is AMD’s next generation enthusiast-class desktop PC platform. Scheduled for 1H10, “Leo” will feature the industry’s first six-core desktop CPU, codenamed “Thuban,” for greater multi-tasking, as well as DirectX 11 capabilities for a visually enhanced gaming experience.
* “Dorado” is AMD’s next-generation mainstream desktop platform with AMD Athlon™ II processors, DirectX 11 discrete graphics options, and stream application acceleration.
* “Lynx,” and “Scorpius” are AMD’s desktop platforms for 2011. “Lynx” is the first desktop platform powered by the quad-core “Llano” APU. “Scorpius” is an enthusiast-class desktop platform featuring the “Zambezi” CPU, the first 8-core solution for enthusiast desktop users based on the “Bulldozer” core.

Server Platforms:

* “Maranello” is AMD’s next generation server platform and remains on track for introduction in 1H10. “Maranello” is a DDR3-based server platform which is expected to offer a new socket infrastructure, Socket G34, to support upcoming 8 or 12-core “Magny-Cours” processors.
* “San Marino” is AMD’s new server platform suited for large, dense deployments that require power efficiency and flexibility that is ideal for small/medium businesses, as well as web, cloud and infrastructure applications.

[/spoiler]

[zir_blazer]

Llano is for laptops.....

Check the slide that is posted a few Posts above...

[Lightman]

Check the slide that is posted a few Posts above...

While you're correct that first bulldozer desktop parts will not be designed for APU type of socket don't forget that not long after AM3 next-gen cores AMD is planning on introducing APU's designed around new cores. So Llano will be first CPU for new socket but soon after people will get upgrade patch to K11 based chips on the same platform.

[zir_blazer]

While you're correct that first bulldozer desktop parts will not be designed for APU type of socket don't forget that not long after AM3 next-gen cores AMD is planning on introducing APU's designed around new cores. So Llano will be first CPU for new socket but soon after people will get upgrade patch to K11 based chips on the same platform.

That "Not too long after" is not a good enough timeframe. We just know that Llano seems that will be released first, then Bulldozer will be released for Socket AM3, and even later than that there would be a Fusion Bulldozer. It still will annoy Llano early adopters that they are buying a newer platform and will miss Bulldozer firepower for many months, though it will make current AM3 users quite happy.
Besides, the name of the Fusion Socket is still unknow.

[Mats]

Given that Bulldozer shows up up like 6-9 months(?) after Llano I really can't see why anyone with an AM3 system (= BD compatible) today would go for Llano, if they actually want BD anyway..

Technically it wouldn't be impossible to make an AM3+ socket with more holes than the AM3.
A BD CPU would have the same amount of pins as current CPU's and leave some holes empty in the socket (surrounding the CPU package),
while a Llano CPU would have a larger package with additional pins for graphics and use all holes in the socket.

[slaveondope]

Actually it worries me much more the fact that Llano will not be Socket compatible with AM3, and that means that it will not be compatible with Bulldozer launch platform that is ironically compatible with the current one. The fact that Llano is based on K10 and aimed at mainstream and budget, means that if you go for the cheaper platform, you are restricted to not have a Bulldozer drop in replacement when it gets launched. This basically segments the Desktop platforms in two, like Intel did with LGA 1156 and 1366

^This has me worried as well

[Mats]

The fact that Llano is based on K10 and aimed at mainstream and budget, means that if you go for the cheaper platform, you are restricted to not have a Bulldozer drop in replacement when it gets launched.

We don't know that. Bulldozer can be made for more than one socket. But I wouldn't be surprised if AMD will end up with only one socket, when AM3 and AM3+ is EOL.

Anyway, it's too early to speculate about the Llano socket, because we don't know anything about it, unlike BD.
Who knows, maybe the Llano will be the socket for BD too in the future, and that only the first BD CPU's are made for AM3. The AM3r2 contradicts this, of course.

[[XC] Oj101]

Bulldozer supposedly introduces quad channel RAM, which isn't possible with AM3 as it would require several hundred extra pins which also translates to a larger CPU - one which is physically bigger than AM3.

[Lightman]

Bulldozer supposedly introduces quad channel RAM, which isn't possible with AM3 as it would require several hundred extra pins which also translates to a larger CPU - one which is physically bigger than AM3.

Only on the G34 socket you will get quad-channel. Desktop stays at 2 channels for time being.

[Mats]

Bulldozer supposedly introduces quad channel RAM, which isn't possible with AM3 as it would require several hundred extra pins which also translates to a larger CPU - one which is physically bigger than AM3.

But still, the roadmap says "AM3". But what you're saying, together with my last post, points to a future where AM3/AM3+ probably isn't going to stay for long or be the best choice, they're just there to make AM3 users happy. And the reason AMD would do something like this is of course to sell more AM3 boards and CPU's now, and not let people wait for some new rumored socket, because that also makes them go to the competitor in the meanwhile.

And now I'm speculating...

On the other hand, I'm not sure quad channel RAM is intended for desktop anytime soon.

[[XC] Oj101]

Lets wait and see Quad channel would be great though, AMD's losing out the bandwidth war at the moment. More bandwidth with the same timings would rock.

[SEA]

Quad channel RAM is for servers. And, btw, it is already introduced with socket G34 amd Magny Cours.
As for Llano socket - so called mainstream in stat slide means for us low end - it is like current boards with integrated graphics. Speaking of "enthusiast" platform - there will be high end bulldozer AM3 and some middle range.

[zir_blazer]

We don't know that. Bulldozer can be made for more than one socket. But I wouldn't be surprised if AMD will end up with only one socket, when AM3 and AM3+ is EOL.

Anyway, it's too early to speculate about the Llano socket, because we don't know anything about it, unlike BD.
Who knows, maybe the Llano will be the socket for BD too in the future, and that only the first BD CPU's are made for AM3. The AM3r2 contradicts this, of course.

Not true, we do have enough info to speculate on that. First, we know that Fusion requieres a new Socket and Bulldozer uses something compatible with existing infrastructure, meaning that like it or not, it would segment the Desktop bewthem mainstream and enthusiast. Second, we also know that Fusion and Bulldozer will launch on 2011 and will coexist together, because there are no Fusion Bulldozers in any Roadmaps that I saw. It makes sense that AM3 gets phased out for Fusion Socket in the future, but that is not what will happen when Bulldozer gets its first release.
Third, there are more than good chances that Fusion comes earlier than Bulldozer, but more for a technical reason: Remember some statements made by engineers that favoured doing a shrink then after the manufacturing process matures, using it for a new architecture (Like what Intel is doing in its Architecture/Shrink cycle), and NEVER the two together (Prescott style)? Well, considering that Llano is a 32nm Quad Core K10 with a GPU derivated from the Radeon 5xxx series, it makes sense that Llano is more of a shrink to improve the manufacturing process with mass production volume units, then within a few months it should be followed by Bulldozer. I think that I'm making a quite bold, yet coherent prediction here.

The deal is that Llano will be better than our current K10s (Llano K10 Cores will have some minor improvements, and the 32nm shrink should give some more Frequency scaling headroom), and being for mainstream, it would surely be a very good performing and cheap platform to use for building machines. However, when Bulldozers get released after it, you suddenly will see that you have to build again a machine with the older Socket AM3 platform just because Bulldozer.

[Smartidiot89]

Not true, we do have enough info to speculate on that. First, we know that Fusion requieres a new Socket and Bulldozer uses something compatible with existing infrastructure, meaning that like it or not, it would segment the Desktop bewthem mainstream and enthusiast. Second, we also know that Fusion and Bulldozer will launch on 2011 and will coexist together, because there are no Fusion Bulldozers in any Roadmaps that I saw. It makes sense that AM3 gets phased out for Fusion Socket in the future, but that is not what will happen when Bulldozer gets its first release.
Third, there are more than good chances that Fusion comes earlier than Bulldozer, but more for a technical reason: Remember some statements made by engineers that favoured doing a shrink then after the manufacturing process matures, using it for a new architecture (Like what Intel is doing in its Architecture/Shrink cycle), and NEVER the two together (Prescott style)? Well, considering that Llano is a 32nm Quad Core K10 with a GPU derivated from the Radeon 5xxx series, it makes sense that Llano is more of a shrink to improve the manufacturing process with mass production volume units, then within a few months it should be followed by Bulldozer. I think that I'm making a quite bold, yet coherent prediction here.

The deal is that Llano will be better than our current K10s (Llano K10 Cores will have some minor improvements, and the 32nm shrink should give some more Frequency scaling headroom), and being for mainstream, it would surely be a very good performing and cheap platform to use for building machines. However, when Bulldozers get released after it, you suddenly will see that you have to build again a machine with the older Socket AM3 platform just because Bulldozer.

You have clearly missunderstood Llano Thuban will outperform it really.

[Sn0wm@n]

the on die gpu of Llano should be fun to mess with cheapo htpc yet that packs a punch

You have clearly missunderstood Llano Thuban will outperform it really.

how about that on die gpu with 400 shaders or so ????

[Smartidiot89]

how about that on die gpu with 400 shaders or so ????

I am talking about how he thinks Llano will target a marketsegment which it simply won't. Llano won't be a high-end part so for AM3 users there will be no need to "upgrade" to AM3, then again having to "upgrade" back to AM3/AM3+ for Bulldozer.

Don't get me wrong, AMD's Fusion products is imo the most interesting thing ever and I am more looking forward to it than Bulldozer, but the first iteration atleast Llano won't be a high-end performance/enthusiast part.

[hrvojezg00]

so the x8 bulldozer will just be more 2 cores on phenom x6 or we can expect bigger cpu power scaling?

[[XC] Oj101]

I think Bulldozer brings a completely revised IMC?