Old school vet with a question

[Gimmpy224]

OK, im from the days on XS where Maxracer, Marci, and Cathar were the reigning words of wisdom, in fact I have some of Cathars blocks sitting behind me 0,o.

Maxracer used to SWEAR by IWAKI pumps, but making my return now 4 years later it seems things have changed 0,o quite a bit.

I was looking for some opinions on Iwaki pumps from some people, mainly like Waterlogged or if I were very lucky: Vapor or Skinnee.

^_^

I only ask this because my WD-20 will push some mad water, BUT if it isnt enough for a cpu, rad, 2x gpu, mother (nb, sb, mosfets), loop then ill retire ole girl and buy something(s) else.

[Major]

OK, im from the days on XS where Maxracer, Marci, and Cathar were the reigning words of wisdom, in fact I have some of Cathars blocks sitting behind me 0,o.

Maxracer used to SWEAR by IWAKI pumps, but making my return now 4 years later it seems things have changed 0,o quite a bit.

I was looking for some opinions on Iwaki pumps from some people, mainly like Waterlogged or if I were very lucky: Vapor or Skinnee.

^_^

I only ask this because my WD-20 will push some mad water, BUT if it isnt enough for a cpu, rad, 2x gpu, mother (nb, sb, mosfets), loop then ill retire ole girl and buy something(s) else.

OMG your bringing back some memories!

Love your quote from freecableguy! haha is he still around?

[=[PULSAR]=]

What happened to MaxxxRacer? I remember seeing him all over the place, haven't seen him in years though.

[Waterlogged]

Well, I don't know if I know enough about Iwaki's to be of any help but I did some searching for that model but I can only find spec's on RD, (W)MD, MX(F), MXM, SMX-(F), MDM, MDF-L, and MDW. Even then, there are multiple variations for each model. If you can be more specific on the exact model, I'll be able to make a determination.

Specifics on blocks would also help.

[seeka12]

Actually i think he meant the MD-20 pump because i don't think that Iwaki had ever made a pump of a model WD-20

[Nickel020]

Love your quote from freecableguy! haha is he still around?

He was banned already 3 years ago, but it seems the posts leading to this were deleted. He was banned at [H] almost simultaneously though...
I think he's some kind of an engineer now, if you Google him you'll find some stuff (Kris Boughton (sp?)).

I realize this might make me look like a stalker, I was only trying to figure out though whether he wrote anything more recent than his excellent stuff about Core 2 overclocking

@OP

Iwakis aren't worth it for regular loops imho due to the diminishing returns from flow. Once you get to like 1.5GPM there's little to be gained from additional flow, and 1.5 GPM can easily be achieved with DDCs or D5s. Instead of spending the money on an Iwaki rather invest in a multi-loop setup.

[nikhsub1]

Actually i think he meant the MD-20 pump because i don't think that Iwaki had ever made a pump of a model WD-20

I'm sure he means WMD-20 which is the american made motor similar to the MD-20 which is the Japanese made motor. The MD > the WMD but they are both very good pumps. Anyway, I will assume that you have the WMD-20; You can basically get the same performance from the DDC pump at a fraction of the size and a fraction of the heat output and it is 12v DC. If those things don't matter much to you and you just want to know if the WMD-20 is a great reliable pump that is built like a tank, then yes it is

[nikhsub1]

OK, im from the days on XS where Maxracer, Marci, and Cathar were the reigning words of wisdom, in fact I have some of Cathars blocks sitting behind me 0,o.

Hmm, if that is old school, I was here before all of them WTF does that make me? I guess just old.

[Gimmpy224]

I'm sure he means WMD-20 which is the american made motor similar to the MD-20 which is the Japanese made motor. The MD > the WMD but they are both very good pumps. Anyway, I will assume that you have the WMD-20; You can basically get the same performance from the DDC pump at a fraction of the size and a fraction of the heat output and it is 12v DC. If those things don't matter much to you and you just want to know if the WMD-20 is a great reliable pump that is built like a tank, then yes it is

I dont have it here in front of me but Im pretty sure you are right. And yeah ive noticed that mine like to put some heat back into the system, I bought it years ago when I was first starting out, and to use it ive been putting mounting brackets on the side of my case lol, getting kinda tired of having a 20lb pump on the side (exageration, but they are heavy as hell).


As for Maxx and the other guys I still have them on AIM chat and hit them up every now and again. You're right about cable hes an engineer now ^_^ as for maxx Im not to sure, I never really ask him lol. Marci and Xeon kinda dropped off the earth, though I think I saw Marci post a few weeks ago.

Anyways ^_^ I guess my final conclusion here is ill be using the iwaki just for test loops and what not, and time to move to something just a tad smaller.

@ Nik: I remember you from those days aswell ^_^ You helped me quite a bit making my first loops all those years ago (I knows its been 5 but im only 21 so I can say this :P). Your helps has been much appreciate, and yes you are old :P

[skinnee]

I'm a little late to the party... but I agree with nikhsub1, the DDC's are a much more viable option than dealing with the baggage of an Iwaki. I have an Iwaki RD-30, but I always go to DDC's for my loops.

[Vapor]

For $100, I'd go dual CPX-Pro (or any of the Jingway rebrands)....only like $10-20 more than a DDC+top or a D5 (and less than a D5 + top). You get better perf, lower noise, and redundancy with dual CPX-Pros.

[Gimmpy224]

I'm a little late to the party... but I agree with nikhsub1, the DDC's are a much more viable option than dealing with the baggage of an Iwaki. I have an Iwaki RD-30, but I always go to DDC's for my loops.

Well I am glad that I'm the only one still using an Iwaki, but Im definetly in agreement with you in that the iwaki is just too much to use in an everyday loop.

^_^ I cant believe I got all of yall in here to help me lol.

Yalls help has been much appreciated! Im hopefully going to finish shopping tonight so I can get my worklog going next weekend.

quick question: If I am running these blocks: 2x GPUS with Ed's soon to be released non ref FC blocks, EK supreme HF, and a NB/SB/Mosfets setup. would it be better to run them as 2 seperate loops with CPU + mobo on one and the 2x GPUs on the other (each with its own 3.120 rad), or set them up as one huge loop?

[Alexandr0s]

I was looking for some opinions on Iwaki pumps from some people, mainly like Waterlogged or if I were very lucky: Vapor or Skinnee.

You're a very lucky man, you got a reply from all three of them .

And I'm with Vapor. From what I've heard (ironically mostly from aforementioned person), 2 of those pumps make a great setup .

Also, Vapor, I think I already know the answer, but just to be safe: Series or parallel?

[Waterlogged]

Gimmpy, I would match the model of your pump to this before deciding.

http://www.iwakiwalchem.com/products/wmd.htm

If it's anything other than the RX, I would at least give serious consideration to continuing to use it.

[skinnee]

For $100, I'd go dual CPX-Pro (or any of the Jingway rebrands)....only like $10-20 more than a DDC+top or a D5 (and less than a D5 + top). You get better perf, lower noise, and redundancy with dual CPX-Pros.

Are you trying to let the cat out of the bag on my upcoming PQ tests?

[Vapor]

Here's a quick graph of some PQ curves from Martin's testing....also in there is a 'dummy loop' pressure drop curve of a system that might be analogous in restriction to the loop you've spec'd in this thread (your spec'd loop might be a tad more restrictive).



Looking at roughly 1.25-1.3GPM on a single CPX-Pro/D5/D5+Top, 1.45GPM on a DDC3.2 + top, and 1.65GPM with dual CPX-Pros.

[Gimmpy224]

@ water: I have the WMD-RT
@Vapor: Good God 0,0 I wasnt expecting graphs! TY! Im thinking your suggestion for the dual CPX-Pros would fit my situation rather well since im wanting to run such a huge loop. Althought I think my Iwaki places a little higher than the dual ones base on the dummy loop, the space it would take + heat dump may not be worth while.


I was thinking of the loop going somewhat like this: Res -> CPX-Pro -> EK-HF -> Mosfets -> NB -> SB -> Rad(3.120 mid CFM) -> CPX Pro -> EK FC GPU -> EK FC GPU-> Rad(3.120 mid CFM) -> res


cards im using are dual 5850's and an i7 920 cpu on a gigabyte ud3 board.

basically im just looking for a loop that can keep these guys cooled very well but with minimal noise since atm my roomate complain about my fans.

^_^ I cant thank you guys enough for this help, been browsing and back on the forums again for a few months and finally got stumped since ive been out of the WC loop for so long.

[overclocking101]

wait wait CPX pro's???? WTF! the most prone to fail pumps are being reccomended?? bear in mind these pumps have not proven reliability in fact quite the contrary just do a quick search "CPX pump failure" and read a little you'll find out for yourself. ME ERSONALLY I would rather put $100 now and have it last for 2 to 3 years then buy 2 crap pumps for redundancy and have it crap out in 2-3 months time while im at work and my rig overheats therefor royally messing up my rig and everything its cooling therefore making me very pissed off at the guy who reccomended me them. my 2c I calls it like I sees it and those pumps are complete garbage and the only tests that will show me anything on them is long term stress tests where the pumps reliability is tested.

[jspace]

Well I am glad that I'm the only one still using an Iwaki, but Im definetly in agreement with you in that the iwaki is just too much to use in an everyday loop.
*snip*

You're not. I've had an MD-20 running for ~3 years straight. In fact it's in the system I'm typing this on now.
I don't think I'm going to use it next time I rebuild this system. Not sure when that will be, but I want something quieter.

[Gimmpy224]

You're not. I've had an MD-20 running for ~3 years straight. In fact it's in the system I'm typing this on now.
I don't think I'm going to use it next time I rebuild this system. Not sure when that will be, but I want something quieter.

Thats another issue i have with it is its noisy too lol.

I had to rubber mount it on my mounting bracket.

[Vinas]

I use an 80mm fan to cool the panworld PX40. I believe the PX40 is similar to the MD20... Even though the pump gets pretty warm (70c without a fan), since the magnetic head isn't attached to the housing, there is a lot less heat added then I originally thought. With an 80mm 800rpm fan blowing over the pump it stays about 45c @ 23c ambient after many hours. As far as raw performance, I've never used a pump that matches it. The external power source is a bit of a pain, but I use a server cord that is a split Y at the end. That with a startup relay makes it a pretty nice, powerful pump. Instead of 1.5 - 2GPM you should be able to pull off around 6GPM depending on the loop. That's a lot of flow! All that said, if the CPX pro's are as good as they say then maybe that's all you really need... maybe

[Vapor]

According to Panworld's own ratings, the PX40 should perform somewhere between a D5 and a DDC3.2 + top

Max head is only ~5.8PSI for the PX40 (and probably at 0GPM). In contrast, a DDC3.2 + top has 6PSI of head at 1.5GPM. Long story short, below ~2GPM, there's no way the PX40 will outperform a DDC3.2 + top if the ratings are accurate and calibrated similar to Martin's test data. To get above 2GPM with either pump, you have to have a pretty low restriction loop.

[Waterlogged]

wait wait CPX pro's???? WTF! the most prone to fail pumps are being reccomended?? bear in mind these pumps have not proven reliability in fact quite the contrary just do a quick search "CPX pump failure" and read a little you'll find out for yourself. ME ERSONALLY I would rather put $100 now and have it last for 2 to 3 years then buy 2 crap pumps for redundancy and have it crap out in 2-3 months time while im at work and my rig overheats therefor royally messing up my rig and everything its cooling therefore making me very pissed off at the guy who reccomended me them. my 2c I calls it like I sees it and those pumps are complete garbage and the only tests that will show me anything on them is long term stress tests where the pumps reliability is tested.

This post clearly shows you are uninformed.

When the Jingway pumps first came out, I was very leery of them. I told many ppl not to buy them because they looked a lot like something Tt would use, and in fact, I believe Jingway did indeed make pumps for Tt but these pumps are not made to Tt's specs. I don't recall seeing any topics about them dying but IIRC, I have seen a post or two about them getting a little noisy over time. While I'm still unlikely to recommend any of these Jingway's, they are not known as bad pumps. These pumps are sold by Danger Den, OCZ, D-Tek, EK and are part of several kits from wannabe water cooling manu's such as Gigabyte to name one.

The pumps you are thinking about are known as CSP. This was a Canadian company that has gone out of business some time ago. I have 2-3 of their Mag pumps and they are all still functional to this day. There are "certain care guidelines" that should be followed with CSP's upon removing them from the box to ensure this long life that I have achieved with mine that I have already documented elsewhere around this forum.

[Gimmpy224]

There are "certain care guidelines" that should be followed with CSP's upon removing them from the box to ensure this long life that I have achieved with mine that I have already documented elsewhere around this forum.

I was always under the impression that this was a rule of thumb for pumps, esp ones that deal with the chemicles we put in the water.

This too is probably why my Iwaki still works perfect 5 years later. Just the inside it dyed pink now from the antifreeze mix I used years ago.

[Vinas]

According to Panworld's own ratings, the PX40 should perform somewhere between a D5 and a DDC3.2 + top

Max head is only ~5.8PSI for the PX40 (and probably at 0GPM). In contrast, a DDC3.2 + top has 6PSI of head at 1.5GPM. Long story short, below ~2GPM, there's no way the PX40 will outperform a DDC3.2 + top if the ratings are accurate and calibrated similar to Martin's test data. To get above 2GPM with either pump, you have to have a pretty low restriction loop.

That makes sense. I calculated it out to be about the same @ 5.97PSI. If the DDC3.2 or better yet the dual CPX pro's will serve better I'm sure they'll dump less heat (probably about 15 watts per pump). The 40px is a 45watt ac120 pump and does get hot. So in this case the better head pressure is superior to the flow rate? Pretty attractive pumps in this case.