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Thread: Adobe responds to steve jobs

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    Adobe responds to steve jobs

    Earlier on Thursday, Apple CEO Steve Jobs published an essay in which he took Adobe to task over its Flash software, which Apple does not support on its mobile products, such as the iPhone and iPad. The squabbling between Apple and Adobe has been getting increasingly personal, with Adobe executives and employees angered in particular by Apple’s decision to block Adobe software that would allow developers to produce programs in Flash that would then be converted to work on the iPhone.

    The Journal’s Alan Murray had an exclusive interview with Adobe CEO Shantanu Narayen Thursday afternoon, and Digits live-blogged the event. Highlights are below. Excerpts of the video are set to be available on the News Hub live show at 4 p.m., with the full video available here.

    http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2010/04/...ith-adobe-ceo/

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    2:36 pmAdd a Comment
    Alan Murray begins the interview, calling Mr. Jobs's missive an "extraordinary attack." He asks Mr. Narayen what Adobe has done to deserve this.

    2:40 pmAdd a Comment
    Mr. Narayen says that the difference is that Adobe believes in open content. He says that their Creative Suite software was designed to work on multiple devices and that Apple's "recent behavior shows that they are concerned about Adobe being able" to provide this product that works across multiple platforms.

    2:43 pmAdd a Comment
    Mr. Murray likens the Apple-Adobe fight to that between reality TV stars Jon and Kate Gosselin and asks about the history between the two companies. Mr. Narayen says that Adobe has been "true to the position" with which it was founded and to the idea that it should help people deal with multiple operating systems.

    2:45 pmAdd a Comment
    Mr. Narayen talks about Adobe "certainly" shipping on Android's latest version. He says that it is an "incredibly productive time" for Adobe and discusses Creative Suite 5, saying that Adobe's "innovation is blowing people away."

    2:47 pmAdd a Comment
    The technology problems that Mr. Jobs mentions in his essay are "really a smokescreen," Mr. Narayen says. He says more than 100 applications that used Adobe's software were accepted in the App Store. "When you resort to licensing language" to restrict this sort of development, he says, it has "nothing to do with technology."

    2:49 pmAdd a Comment
    He says that Apple's restrictiveness is just going to make it "cumbersome" for developers who are trying to make products that work on many devices. They're going to have to have "two workflows" ... one for Apple devices and one for others.

    2:51 pmAdd a Comment
    Speaking about Mr. Jobs's assertion that Adobe is the No. 1 cause of Mac crashes, Mr. Narayen says if Adobe crashes Apple, that actually has something "to do with the Apple operating system."

    2:52 pmAdd a Comment
    Mr. Narayen calls accusations about Flash draining battery power "patently false." Speaking about Mr. Jobs's letter in general, he says that "for every one of these accusations made there is proprietary lock-in" that prevents Adobe from innovating.

    2:53 pmAdd a Comment
    Mr. Narayen poses a question to Alan Murray, asking him if the Journal would "want to have stovepipes" -- or separate development processes -- when it is creating content. Mr. Murray says that certainly "it would be better if you could use one set" of development tools.

    2:53 pmAdd a Comment
    Mr. Narayen says Adobe's concept is best for most businesses that are developing applications and allows them to send their apps out to many places rather than forcing them to decide on just one. "It doesn't benefit Apple, and that's why you see this reaction," he says.

    2:54 pmAdd a Comment
    Responding to a question about Mr. Jobs's assertion that Adobe is a closed platform, Mr. Narayen chuckles. "I find it amusing, honestly. Flash is an open specification," he says.

    2:55 pmAdd a Comment
    The Journal wants to know whether Mr. Narayen knows Steve Jobs. "I've met him on a number of occasions," he says.

    2:55 pmAdd a Comment
    "We have different views of the world," Mr. Narayen says. "Our view of the world is multi-platform."

    2:56 pmAdd a Comment
    Does Mr. Narayen use an iPhone? "I have a Google Nexus One device," he says. And what about the iPad? "I think it's a good first-generation device. I think you're going to see just tremendous innovation in terms of tablets." Adobe is, in fact, working with "dozens" of tablet projects with other companies, he says.

    2:57 pmAdd a Comment
    To conclude, Mr. Narayen says he's for "letting customers decide," but that the multi-platform world will "eventually prevail." And the interview wraps up.
    Last edited by purefun65; 04-30-2010 at 02:51 AM. Reason: add link

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    Adobe claiming to be believers in multi-platform is a bit rich. Only a selection of their products are multi-platform. Still better than Apple but then Apple make no such claims.

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    Quote Originally Posted by randomizer View Post
    Adobe claiming to be believers in multi-platform is a bit rich. Only a selection of their products are multi-platform. Still better than Apple but then Apple make no such claims.
    Apple claims they are "open", that is a much more extravagant claim.

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    All I know is I cant see flash content on my iPad.

    And I dont seem to be missing much.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoredByLife View Post
    Apple claims they are "open", that is a much more extravagant claim.
    This. What exactly is open about Apple software? You need a license and have to pay just to develop software for Apple's OS, and as a result you also have to pay for most of it.

    There may be so many apps on the Apple app store, but just what proportion of those are actually free, and is there really as much content and entertainment as there is on Flash?

    I'm asking because I dont know, so if anyone could explain these things that would be great.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aberration View Post
    All I know is I cant see flash content on my iPad.

    And I dont seem to be missing much.
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    Yeah, Apple (or Steve Jobs) claiming "open" was ridiculous and hypocrite. Adobe ain't much better, either, but I think Adobe is more "open" than Apple.

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    adobe being multi platform... well yeah if you call "we will support whatever platform you pay us to support" means to believe in multi platform... sure...
    they both only care about money...

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    Mr. Narayen calls accusations about Flash draining battery power "patently false." Speaking about Mr. Jobs's letter in general, he says that "for every one of these accusations made there is proprietary lock-in" that prevents Adobe from innovating.

    This response is ludicrous. He can argue all he likes about "proprietary lock-in," but the fact is that every battery life and power consumption benchmark shows time and again that flash is a huge power hog and it most definitely adversely affects battery life on all devices. I believe Jobs' open letter section on this point hit the nail on the head regarding flash having to do video decode in software.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saaya View Post
    they both only care about money...
    They're both major corporations. They wouldn't have survived this long had they not carefully considered the bottom line.

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    yepp... and in the end this is really funny... it boils down to:

    narayen: mommy mommy, steve wont share his platform with me!
    jobs: thats only cause youd take it away from me and break it!


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    i would like see adobe products in Linux.. i had run Wine instead
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    Quote Originally Posted by saaya View Post
    yepp... and in the end this is really funny... it boils down to:

    narayen: mommy mommy, steve wont share his platform with me!
    jobs: thats only cause youd take it away from me and break it!

    hehe some of largest software companies
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andypro1 View Post
    Mr. Narayen calls accusations about Flash draining battery power "patently false." Speaking about Mr. Jobs's letter in general, he says that "for every one of these accusations made there is proprietary lock-in" that prevents Adobe from innovating.

    This response is ludicrous. He can argue all he likes about "proprietary lock-in," but the fact is that every battery life and power consumption benchmark shows time and again that flash is a huge power hog and it most definitely adversely affects battery life on all devices. I believe Jobs' open letter section on this point hit the nail on the head regarding flash having to do video decode in software.
    Exactly. Flash is a resource hog in Linux too, and there aren't many "proprietary lock-ins" in Linux as far as I know
    To me, this is a bit like Hitler and Stalin arguing who is the most evil; neither Adobe nor Apple is exactly free of prorietary lock-ins.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobsama View Post
    They're both major corporations. They wouldn't have survived this long had they not carefully considered the bottom line.
    Of course not, but there is a difference between "caring about money" and "only caring about money". Seeing how fast public opinion swings today, I don't think "only caring about money" is very wise (read: Goldman Sachs etc). Neither is not caring about money.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frodin View Post
    Exactly. Flash is a resource hog in Linux too, and there aren't many "proprietary lock-ins" in Linux as far as I know
    To me, this is a bit like Hitler and Stalin arguing who is the most evil; neither Adobe nor Apple is exactly free of prorietary lock-ins.
    Except that the point Jobs made was that they were developing specific hardware solutions (ie h.264) to speed up non-Flash alternative and reduce power requirements. What prevents them from doing some kind of FPGA or other hardware voodoo for Flash processing?

    You might want to wrap this debate up any way you want, say that one company is no more evil than the next and whatnot, but the bottom line is that this is a simple technological problem. Technological problems can be solved with goodwill and money thrown at them.

    In this case, Apple doesn't care and doesn't see the profit in doing so because it doesn't advance their business model to allow Flash to work on their iPad as well as h.264/html5. Simple as that. The rest is just smokescreens, allusions, feigns, ruses and deceptions to get people to focus away from the simple fixable technological issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frodin View Post
    Exactly. Flash is a resource hog in Linux too, and there aren't many "proprietary lock-ins" in Linux as far as I know
    To me, this is a bit like Hitler and Stalin arguing who is the most evil; neither Adobe nor Apple is exactly free of prorietary lock-ins.

    AMEN, Adobe and Apple have allot to account for, but I'm nastier towards adobe more because their F-ups effect me as a PC user far more. Considering they did everything in their power to force themselves on the entire Internet, we have every right to hate their guts with a passion when flash fails to perform.

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