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Thread: 12-core Opteron processors hit e-tail listings

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    Xtreme Cruncher PoppaGeek's Avatar
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    12-core Opteron processors hit e-tail listings

    TheTechReport

    Unreleased AMD processors are all rushing to online store listings, it seems. After Phenom II X6 processors in Norway, we now see an online retailer in the U.S. has put up listings for a whole series of 8- and 12-core Opterons based on the Magny-Cours design.

    Searching for "Opteron X12" on the Provantage website yields no fewer than 16 matches, with prices ranging from $290 for an Opteron 6124 HE to $1,485 for an Opteron 6176 SE. All 16 products are either back-ordered or on special order.

    The specifications listed contain some gaps, so we can't put together a complete picture of the lineup. We can, however, make a few assumptions. The 6124 HE, 6128, 6134, and 6136 models all have 16MB of total cache (4MB of L2 and 12MB of L3), for instance, while the 6164 HE, 6168, 6172, 6174, and 6176 have 18MB (that is, 6MB of L2 and 12MB of L3). Since AMD typically straps 512KB of L2 cache to each core, we'd wager the first group is made up of eight-core offerings, while the second batch is all 12-core.

    Listed clock speeds, thermal envelopes, and prices support that assumption. The Opteron 6124 HE through 6136 offerings apparently run at 1.8 to 2.4GHz with thermal envelopes of either 65W or 80W and prices of up to $809. Meanwhile, the presumed 12-core models run at 1.7 to 2.3GHz with 65, 80, and 105W thermal envelopes and prices as high as $1,485. (By the way, those power envelopes are likely ACP ratings, not straight TDP numbers.)

    Otherwise, Provantage says all 16 new Opterons are Socket G34 products. If you followed our coverage of AMD's official roadmap, you'll know AMD will partition its server and workstation product family into two platforms: G34 at the high end, reaching up into four-socket servers, and C32 at the low end. The G34 platform will support quad-channel DDR3 memory with up to 12 modules per socket; that should make for a potent combination with four 12-core CPUs. (Thanks to Fudzilla for the tip.)
    I did not see this coming. Opteron X12 6128 G34 2G 16MB 80W 6400MHZ 45NM Tray Magnycours $290

    Details says 8 cores although called a X12.

    Link removed as Provantage took down listings of X12
    Last edited by PoppaGeek; 03-24-2010 at 08:24 PM.

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    Thats an incredible price for 8 cores.

    The model numbering has me confused though because back in the old days it had to be an 8xxx series CPU to run in a quad socket motherboard. Is that still the case or can you run four of the Opteron X12's in a quad socket motherboard?

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    Xtreme Mentor Particle's Avatar
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    That has changed with the new setup. All G34 CPUs will do 2P or 4P.
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    Oh my freakin' god that is awesome!

    Gone are the days when we'd have to spend a fortune on CPU's. As sad as it may sound this is the best news that I have actually heard all day and I will now be watching magny cours with much interest.

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    Live Long And Overclock perkam's Avatar
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    AMD can't compete with Intel on performance atm, so they have to compete on price. I just hope they have set these prices high enough to increase their gross margins, as those are the #1 reason right now why investors are concerned.

    My main concern with these is finding a board that overclocks. Without an OC option, these CPUs are useless for AMD crunchers, who can go outside and buy a Six-core 1090T Phenom X6 ($300) next month and clock it to 3.8Ghz to give around 28,000 PPD (same performance as a 12-core 1.9Ghz Opteron ($800) or a 2.8Ghz 8-core Opteron (~$1,000 probably)).

    Brief Summary:

    2x AMD Phenom X6 1090T - $300 (12C/12T)
    2x Other Components - $350
    Clock: 3.8Ghz
    Total Cost of Two Rigs: $1,300
    PPD: 56,000
    PPD/$: 43

    2x AMD Opteron X8 6134 - $500 (16C/16T)
    Clocks: 2.3Ghz
    Motherboard - $400
    PSU - $110
    Other Components - $400
    Total Cost of Dual Processor Rig: $1,910
    PPD: 46,000 PPD
    PPD/$: 24

    Now, lets turn it around and lets say we spend a few extra hundred on an OC'able G34 motherboard:

    2x AMD Opteron X8 6134 - $500 (16C/16T)
    Clocks: 3.6Ghz
    Motherboard - $550
    PSU - $150
    Other Components - $500
    Total Cost of Dual Processor Rig: $2,200
    PPD: 72,000 PPD
    PPD/$: 32.7

    Quite an improvement in PPD/$ right there, even with the extra investment.

    Perkam
    Last edited by perkam; 03-24-2010 at 10:19 AM.

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    The thing is though the market for a dp overclockable motherboard is tiny and I wouldn't imagine we will see one anytime soon. (For AMD that is.)

    And the market of people looking to buy multiple rigs for the sake of crunching over people who are looking for the maximum power from a single rig for workstation use is again quite small. I'm quite excited by Magny Cours and I'm looking forward to seeing the final pricing and everything on the new CPU's.
    Last edited by Chris_redfield; 03-24-2010 at 10:53 AM.

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    Xtreme Cruncher PoppaGeek's Avatar
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    There are 2 platforms coming out. G34 and C32. One high end server and the other lower end server and workstation. Since they mention workstation I am hoping it will have some ability to OC. The G34 will be 2 & 4 socket the C32 1 & 2 socket. Still fun to see who releases what board at what price. Could be very interesting and I am hopefull as AMD is releasing $200 6-core desktop and $300 8-core chips.



    Opterons to have 12 cores in early 2010, 16 cores in 2011


    @perkam, I am gonna nit pik your post a little. First just because they will probably lack OC ability does not make them useless if there are moderatly priced MBs and memory prices are not bad IF it is low power and heat. Look at the Sossaman. Second we really do not know what the prices on all other components are yet. I have not found any G34 boards yet and I am sure they will be expensive. I am hoping someone will release a moderate priced C32. Second what is U/RDDR-3 ram? Does not sound cheap to me. And last a big contribution I see is these driving down the price of Istanbul especially on ebay as companies upgrade.

    Last edited by PoppaGeek; 03-24-2010 at 08:30 PM.

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    Xtreme Cruncher Otis11's Avatar
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    Holy crap - where did you see RDR ram?

    iirc (and that's a big if), that stuff is sick... it's significantly faster than ddr, but went under b/c costs so much more...


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    2x AMD Phenom X6 1090T - $300 (12C/12T)
    2x Other Components - $350
    Clock: 3.8Ghz
    Total Cost of Two Rigs: $1,300
    PPD: 56,000
    PPD/$: 43
    hmm,
    u can get two of these for 2600$ - 112,000PPD - an 400$ only extra from the 6134 rig.

    Second what is U/RDR-3 ram?
    probably Un-Registered.

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    Xtreme Cruncher PoppaGeek's Avatar
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    I am guessing here. Unbuffered/Registered DDR3. See chart above.

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    yeah seen the chart, it shouldn't be rambus,
    there doesn't seem to be any documentation for any unregistered or unbuffered rambus.

    registered and buffered should be the same.

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    Xtreme Cruncher PoppaGeek's Avatar
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    Server memory is listed as being either Unbuffered or Registered. Not the same although I do not know the difference. We went thru this when several of us bought the Arimia dual socket 1207 F MBs off ebay. Had to be Registered not Unbuffered.

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    Live Long And Overclock perkam's Avatar
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    U/RDDR3 means you have the choice of using Unbuffered or Registered DDR3. Unbuffered is very much like the RAM we use for desktop computers, with greater instability as we add more ram to the server. Registered DDR3 have a register on the memory that reduces electrical load (has a speed penalty) which increases stability as more memory is added to the server.

    I.E. Registered = ultra stability, Unbuffered = regular stability. Both come with the option of error correction. (MM can enlighten us more on the topic)

    @ Poppa, support for C32 will most likely be a joke in the first year or so, just as support and production for 1P Barcelona and 1P Shanghai were a complete joke (very little 1P server motherboard choices and bad availability for processors). In addition, with Opteron 6100 series chips being priced as low as they are, it doesn't make any sense for AMD to price their C32 chips even lower and lose money in such a small segment.

    The reason I was hoping for OC options was as an added bonus, not a full fledged godfather-like solution, just some clocking and volt options that you find on even the cheapest ECS motherboard these days The difference in PPD per dollar efficiency of taking a 2.3Ghz Octa-core to 3Ghz is night and day, especially as that small 700 Mhz increase gets multiplied 8 times. (You go from 46000 to 60000 PPD !)

    I was really hoping for higher clocked chips from AMD, but I guess for that to happen we`ll have to wait for Bulldozer :S

    Perkam

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    Back from the Dead jcool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoppaGeek View Post
    Server memory is listed as being either Unbuffered or Registered. Not the same although I do not know the difference. We went thru this when several of us bought the Arimia dual socket 1207 F MBs off ebay. Had to be Registered not Unbuffered.
    Easy - Unbuffered <-> Registered
    Both can be ECC (error correction). Normal unbuffered DDR3 w/o ECC is what we use for our desktop systems, most servers use Reg ECC. There are some unbuffered ECC modules, and even a few Registered non-ECC ones, but they are neither common nor affordable.
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    Xtreme Cruncher PoppaGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by perkam View Post
    U/RDDR3 means you have the choice of using Unbuffered or Registered DDR3. Unbuffered is very much like the RAM we use for desktop computers, with greater instability as we add more ram to the server. Registered DDR3 have a register on the memory that reduces electrical load (has a speed penalty) which increases stability as more memory is added to the server.

    I.E. Registered = ultra stability, Unbuffered = regular stability. Both come with the option of error correction. (MM can enlighten us more on the topic)

    @ Poppa, support for C32 will most likely be a joke in the first year or so, just as support and production for 1P Barcelona and 1P Shanghai were a complete joke (very little 1P server motherboard choices and bad availability for processors). In addition, with Opteron 6100 series chips being priced as low as they are, it doesn't make any sense for AMD to price their C32 chips even lower and lose money in such a small segment.

    The reason I was hoping for OC options was as an added bonus, not a full fledged godfather-like solution, just some clocking and volt options that you find on even the cheapest ECS motherboard these days The difference in PPD per dollar efficiency of taking a 2.3Ghz Octa-core to 3Ghz is night and day, especially as that small 700 Mhz increase gets multiplied 8 times. (You go from 46000 to 60000 PPD !)

    I was really hoping for higher clocked chips from AMD, but I guess for that to happen we`ll have to wait for Bulldozer :S

    Perkam
    Yes I got that I am just saying the chip is not useless as a cruncher for the lack of those features. A low power low heat processor, even if relatively slow, can have value especially in areas where electricity is very expensive.

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    Xtreme Cruncher PoppaGeek's Avatar
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    Registered memory

    Not to be confused with ECC memory, although memory modules often use both technologies.
    Registered (also called buffered) memory modules have a register between the DRAM modules and the system's memory controller. They place less electrical load on the memory controller and allow single systems to remain stable with more memory modules than they would have otherwise. Registered memory is more expensive because of the lower volume and the additional components, so it is usually found only in applications where the need for scalability and stability outweighs the need for a low price (servers, for example). Although most server-grade memory modules are both ECC and registered, there are both registered non-ECC modules and non-registered ECC modules.
    There is a performance penalty for using registered memory. Each read or write is buffered for one cycle between the memory bus and the DRAM, so the registered RAM can be thought of as running one clock cycle behind the equivalent unregistered DRAM. With SDRAM, this only applies to the first cycle of a burst.

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    Normal unbuffered DDR3 w/o ECC is what we use for our desktop systems
    thought that exactly.

    Registered (also called buffered)
    told ya .

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    Xtreme Cruncher PoppaGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onex View Post
    thought that exactly.


    told ya .

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    I am Addicted! INFRNL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by perkam View Post
    AMD can't compete with Intel on performance atm, so they have to compete on price. I just hope they have set these prices high enough to increase their gross margins, as those are the #1 reason right now why investors are concerned.

    My main concern with these is finding a board that overclocks. Without an OC option, these CPUs are useless for AMD crunchers, who can go outside and buy a Six-core 1090T Phenom X6 ($300) next month and clock it to 3.8Ghz to give around 28,000 PPD (same performance as a 12-core 1.9Ghz Opteron ($800) or a 2.8Ghz 8-core Opteron (~$1,000 probably)).

    Brief Summary:

    2x AMD Phenom X6 1090T - $300 (12C/12T)
    2x Other Components - $350
    Clock: 3.8Ghz
    Total Cost of Two Rigs: $1,300
    PPD: 56,000
    PPD/$: 43


    2x AMD Opteron X8 6134 - $500 (16C/16T)
    Clocks: 2.3Ghz
    Motherboard - $400
    PSU - $110
    Other Components - $400
    Total Cost of Dual Processor Rig: $1,910
    PPD: 46,000 PPD
    PPD/$: 24

    Now, lets turn it around and lets say we spend a few extra hundred on an OC'able G34 motherboard:

    2x AMD Opteron X8 6134 - $500 (16C/16T)
    Clocks: 3.6Ghz
    Motherboard - $550
    PSU - $150
    Other Components - $500
    Total Cost of Dual Processor Rig: $2,200
    PPD: 72,000 PPD
    PPD/$: 32.7

    Quite an improvement in PPD/$ right there, even with the extra investment.

    Perkam
    How accurate is this info for production? I just do not see 2x 12c/12T@3.8ghz=112kppd
    That is more than Intel 2x 12C/24T@4ghz=100k+

    There is no way AMD is out performing Intel when it comes to Crunching/WCG

    2 of these AM processors= well below 100k mark

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    hh, no taking credit ..

    There is no way AMD is out performing Intel when it comes to Crunching/WCG
    the main difference for AMD favor, is it's using 12 actual cores i.e - no hyperthreading,
    it's only a matter now of benching how effective it is.
    +the 12 core magny's comes at speeds from ~1.9-2.4 and bigger L2+L3 vs Intel's Nehalem/Westmere & an OC'able W555 platform...
    at the price of 2*X5680 you might be able to pick up 4 of the 1.9, and if you'll be able to OC them a bit..
    well, no need to go any further .
    should be very interesting.

  21. #21
    Live Long And Overclock perkam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INFRNL View Post
    How accurate is this info for production? I just do not see 2x 12c/12T@3.8ghz=112kppd
    That is more than Intel 2x 12C/24T@4ghz=100k+

    There is no way AMD is out performing Intel when it comes to Crunching/WCG

    2 of these AM processors= well below 100k mark
    If you compare 6C vs 6C, AMD`s solution at 4Ghz gets 30K PPD, while a Gulftown with the same number of cores and at the same clockspeed manages 45K PPD (at 4.6Ghz, a single Gulftown manages 52K+, like Dave`s). So AMD is not faster than Intel at all, if you compare on a core basis.

    So, it's not 2x 12C AMD = 2x 12C Intel
    Its 4x 6C AMD ~ 2x 6C Intel

    However, on a price-performance basis, AMD is pricing its 1090T Hex-Core at $299, while Intel is price its 980X Hex-Core at $999. So, in theory, you can build around 2.5 Thuban crunchers (after taking into account component costs) for the price of a Gulftown cruncher, hence the reason it may seem that AMD is faster than Intel's solution.

    Thuban will actually still be slower than the i7 920, which is priced around $299 too, but the difference in crunching/encoding/computing apps will now be within 5%, unlike the 30% difference present vs the Quad core Phenoms.

    Perkam
    Last edited by perkam; 03-25-2010 at 05:59 AM.

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    I am Addicted! INFRNL's Avatar
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    will have to see how they actually do, but i get your point.



    i used to run a bunch of 920's; gets to be a hassle to watch and maintain that many systems for me. i would rather have more cores per systems for same or better production. less is more route so to speak. i just do not have the time i once had.
    I myself would rather pay a little more for 1 system that produces what 3-4 separate systems produce. jmo though.

    I think everything has its place. I wish AMD to come back to where they need to be. I used to be die hard AMD when they were on top a few years back

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    Xtreme Addict SocketMan's Avatar
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    Cmon Asus give us a single G34 socket with core unlocker and OC options.


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  24. #24
    Live Long And Overclock perkam's Avatar
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    You might not need one.

    There are AMD OC tools for mild OCing. But you never want to overclock quad octa-core CPUs anyway; a marginal increase in clockspeed will result in a signficant heat and power increase as it is multipled for every core in every CPU.

    Perkam

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    AT shows Magony Numbers:
    http://it.anandtech.com/IT/showdoc.aspx?i=3784

    wish we saw the 48p version..

    But these are the benchmarks i saw roughly 4 months ago from another source.
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