The Fermi Thread - Part 3

[annihilat0r]

So we're going to pay 30% more for a 8% increase in performance?

[Sn0wm@n]

So we're going to pay 30% more for a 8% increase in performance?

yes ..... imagine a rebrand on a lower fab process would yield better result

[Levish]

sure and win server 08 datacenter 32bit edition is something different ???? 32bit can adress a total of more then 4gb.... but like somebody told it cant adress more then 3gb for a single program....

Enabling PAE /3GB switch enables 32bit Windows to access more than 4GB. You are still limited to around 2GB or so per program and a max of 4GB per pagefile location (you can obviously have many page files if you have multiple drives).

And the prices for Fermi at launch will be with no lube, MSRP be damned unless you are one of the "lucky" few percent camping the stores and wearing out the F5 keys (or know someone) imo.

Video card makers (just like chipmakers and car makers) have way too many fanboys that care too much about brand and not enough about !/$

[Razrback16]

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news...s-confirm.aspx

If that turns out to be the price and the performance comparison is as stated above, AMD will just implement a price reduction. Green team is falling way behind, and I really want them to stay competitive so we can all enjoy lower prices on all products.

[herderien]

Np...it's obvious when you see at available memory:
512 MB VGA...some 3,5 GB
1 GB VGA...some 3 GB

I usually advised x86-64 OS even with 512MB card and definitelly with 1GB card. With 2GB it will hurt and what's really funny, you won't boot with 4GB card or 2 2GB cards

Anybody tried? I am actually interested in this now

the OS is only handling CPU related ram, the GPU ram is handled by the gpu, the CPU is not really aware of it.

4870x2 on a 32 bit OS doesn't make you forced to use, 1,25 Go of RAM.
the missing ram from 4Go on 32 bit os is due to system adresses.

it would be the same thing that saying cache on a raid card would limit your available OS ram


as for fermi pricing...i guess it will depend on perfs i guess...and how ATi will react to that


[auto edit, i realised i was a bit rude ^^]

[Farinorco]

I don't know if those prices are correct or not, but I find them very believable IF the performances are more or less like rumoured (similar to last gen differences).

What that text doesn't correctly address is the comparison against the Radeon prices: "higher performance than HD5850, sometimes HD5870, but prices like HD5850". They are not getting it.

They, and NVIDIA (and that's why I find those launch prices believable), should consider that the Radeon HD5000 are a six month old product, that means those products are well advanced in their life cycle, so its price can drop substancially compared to their launch price. At this point, that has not happened, but even it has been increased. That's because there's no competence, and when GTX400 come, there will be. So prices will drop accordingly.

NVIDIA has to consider this more than probable price drop of Radeon products at pricing their own ones, and estimate how much AMD can (and will) lower them, because they can't launch at a given price X their cards, and the next week, have it dropped to a 60% of the launch price in order to compete like happened the last generation.

So of course those prices seems to be very good compared to current HD5000 prices, which are unnatural prices product of the lack of competence until now. But they are not going to be competing against those prices, they know AMD can lower them quite a bit once there's some reason to do it (competence) being 6 months old now, so NV has to take that into consideration when setting their own prices.

That's one of the problems of coming so late to the battle, that you have to fight against products that are more advanced on their life cycle.

[herderien]

if someone want to know exactly where is going the missing 750 Mb of ram, here's an answer :

http://www.kudzuworld.com/blogs/Tech/2006_08_13.fr.aspx

sorry for the little off topic but this is and has always had a vague answer, or at least not as precise as that one

[NaMcO]

GTX 295 works in sli with 32bit os and so does gtx 285 triple sli. Also last time i checked asus mars Dual GeForce GTX 285 4096 MB worked ok with windows 32bit.

5990 with 2*2gb is no different, each gpu will hold 2gb's not 4gb.

That's my idea as well, but as i wasn't sure i didn't argue. It's not related to the OS at all, the only issue seems to be work RAM.

[Manicdan]

So we're going to pay 30% more for a 8% increase in performance?

i think the real question is how well it handles future games, when i buy a card, i like to keep it 2-3 years, and a 480 sounds like the better option when dx11 games start to use it properly.

[MrDiaz]

10 days to go people....sigh

[MrDiaz]

i think the real question is how well it handles future games, when i buy a card, i like to keep it 2-3 years, and a 480 sounds like the better option when dx11 games start to use it properly.

Indeed... I still have my 4 year + old 8800GT and I'm running pretty much antyhing out there

[annihilat0r]

Indeed... I still have my 4 year + old 8800GT and I'm running pretty much antyhing out there

4 year old 8800GT?

[Farinorco]

4 year old 8800GT?

Maybe he has a very, very early prototype of a 8800GT...

(For the curious, 8800GT was released on October 29, 2007, so if he actually was lucky enough to pick one the first day -remember how shorter was supply compared to demand for quite a bit of time- it couldn't have more than 2 years, 4 months and a half...)

[MrDiaz]

Ok fine 3 years :p

[MrDiaz]

I bought it on release date yeah, damn only 2 years ago? Feels so much longer...

[Manicdan]

i was using a 2900xt and it did everything just fine. except the power draw was so massive that a 100$ 4850 would save me 3-5$ a month on my electric and offer an ok perf jump, nothing really too noticeable, but the upgrade would only cost me about 30$ after having it for a year thanks to the savings. and im glad i got it when i did, cause since then prices have not changed a hair since. someone wake me up when 5870 is 200$

[GoldenTiger]

I bought it on release date yeah, damn only 2 years ago? Feels so much longer...

Yeah, I got mine on release day back then too, definitely feels longer than it actually is, huh?

[RaZz!]

the OS is only handling CPU related ram, the GPU ram is handled by the gpu, the CPU is not really aware of it.

4870x2 on a 32 bit OS doesn't make you forced to use, 1,25 Go of RAM.
the missing ram from 4Go on 32 bit os is due to system adresses.

it would be the same thing that saying cache on a raid card would limit your available OS ram
[...]

that's my understanding of how this works as well.

while reading all the other posts which stated "system ram - gpu ram = usable ram" i really began to question my own understanding of ram handling. but if you think about it in detail you'll realize it just CAN'T work that way.
everybody with e.g. two 5870s with 1gb of ram in xfire would lose 2,75gb of usable system ram... (system ram - driver memory space - gpu ram = usable ram)... and would have only 1,25gb of system ram. no way dudes

[MrDiaz]

Yeah, I got mine on release day back then too, definitely feels longer than it actually is, huh?

It does man, and here I was hoping when I buy my next card (either FERMI or sticking with ATI) was going to last me 4+ more years lol

Silly me eh?

[annihilat0r]

I bought it on release date yeah, damn only 2 years ago? Feels so much longer...

4 years ago there were the 7800GTX's... not even 8800GTX, not even 7900GTX (I think)

But yeah, actually I understand what you're saying. It feels MUCH more than 2 years to me too.

[hennyo]

Enabling PAE /3GB switch enables 32bit Windows to access more than 4GB. You are still limited to around 2GB or so per program and a max of 4GB per pagefile location (you can obviously have many page files if you have multiple drives).

Sorry this response is a little off topic, but, you can allow a program to access 3GB with some special switches on 32bit windows, and you can even do it on XP, tho on XP total ram can never cross the 4GB range. The reason I know this, is because in the past I used to play EQ2 which is such a program that specifically had such a switch added on to it, btw it still had out of memory errors even with 3GB at times.

[Sn0wm@n]

how many millions did nvidia pour into fermi dev .... + how many million did they pour in to fix their mistake???? and now every fanboy expect some sort of loyalty rebate!!! wich means a card at around 500$ no more .... and a 470 at 350$ or close ... wtf ?????

add up the low availability and youve got a fermi hovering around the 800$ easily..... asking price + retailer = 800 easy ................


nvidia wasnt created to be a charity .... they are a business... especially with all those pr speach lately..... dont expect nothing ... be grateful for what you have ... and if it doesnt fit your budget go to the next guy .....

[cowie]

well consumers are not that stupid either...and neither is nvidia...looks like they will play ball on the prices.
they can refresh/rebrand this arc. for yrs, they will make money on it in do time not in the first week

maybe 800 in pesos or colonies not usd,if you want to pay 800 you can buy mine after i get it.

[herderien]

Sorry this response is a little off topic, but, you can allow a program to access 3GB with some special switches on 32bit windows, and you can even do it on XP, tho on XP total ram can never cross the 4GB range. The reason I know this, is because in the past I used to play EQ2 which is such a program that specifically had such a switch added on to it, btw it still had out of memory errors even with 3GB at times.

you can do that by modifying the .exe, with an asm editor or something like that (the register seems to be "easily" identified).
Basicaly the problem comes from devs that do not change their habits while the amount of available ram on modern computers is increasing.


anyway, pricing will be accurate with performances, except if NV wants to make the same "coup" as ATi did with 48xx series 2 years ago aka 50% less price for 10% less perfs

[situman]

Isnt it about time that the ATi 5 series go thru a refresh? Is it still a 6 month cycle for refreshes/new architectures?