Have I Been Ripped Off?

**Movieman** · 03-09-2010, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by Ket

We don't like nVidia in these parts of the wood

I've owned both ATI and nVidia at different times, found them both to fill my needs.
I have 2-260GTX 192 cards and they are excellent.
I also have an old ATI HD2600XL card that works perfectly for my needs
There will always be a point where one company has a better card than the other and it goes back and forth based on whose just come to market and who is still in R&D on their next product..

**Ket** · 03-09-2010, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by Movieman

I've owned both ATI and nVidia at different times, found them both to fill my needs.
I have 2-260GTX 192 cards and they are excellent.
I also have an old ATI HD2600XL card that works perfectly for my needs
There will always be a point where one company has a better card than the other and it goes back and forth based on whose just come to market and who is still in R&D on their next product..

Unfortunately for me nVidia have always been significantly worse.

My VC history

ATi

Radeon 9000NP
Radeon 9600Pro
X800XL
X1950Pro
HD3850
HD3870
HD4830

nVidia

MX400
5700 Ultra
6800GT
8200

I make it a habit to sample the other side periodically to see how things have improved. For me, the green side was always worse. Much hotter running and drivers were abysmal, randomly BSODing and I couldn't play Theme Hospital where the 2D side of NVs drivers are borked.

**knopflerbruce** · 03-09-2010, 04:31 PM

It's weird people are discussing so hard, we all agree that the 260 is worse than that 9800gx2.

If the 260 doesn't give you equal or better performance after you've tried it, I wonder if they tell you to use other settings so the card performs better than a gx2, or perhaps play other games

**Ket** · 03-09-2010, 05:18 PM

Most of us are geeks, its what we do

**5ILVgearX** · 03-09-2010, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by WARDOZER9

When you buy a video card, are you buying one by price or performance? Do you seriously mean to admit that by saying you should always get a replacement card of equal dollar based worth that every time you buy a card you pick a dollar ammount you want to spend and thats the card you buy whether or not it performs well? If thats the case, you are all admitting that you should get a waaaay slower Quadro GFX card of the same dollar value as thats whats really important. And if you say thats not true then you admit you are full of sheet and you realy care about the actual performance like every sane person and not about the actual dollar value. So which one is it? Dollar value or performance level? Left, right, up or down?

LOL what a guy, shame that I am late to the party.

Lets put it this way, your XFX 9800GT EE breaks down today, you sent it in for RMA, they return you a GT240 DDR3. I guess you be overjoyed right

Anyways, make sure you talk to evga and get it sorted out. At least a refurbish gtx 280 would of did it justice, a gtx 260 is just not right even if its Super ultra mega overclocked

What ever happen to the slogan " Committed to the highest level of costumer satisfaction."

Looking forward to see this get straighten out.

Best of luck!

**ReverendMaynard** · 03-10-2010, 06:02 AM

Originally Posted by Ket

Unfortunately for me nVidia have always been significantly worse.

My VC history

ATi

Radeon 9000NP
Radeon 9600Pro
X800XL
X1950Pro
HD3850
HD3870
HD4830

nVidia

MX400
5700 Ultra
6800GT
8200

I make it a habit to sample the other side periodically to see how things have improved. For me, the green side was always worse. Much hotter running and drivers were abysmal, randomly BSODing and I couldn't play Theme Hospital where the 2D side of NVs drivers are borked.

meh, clown shoes.

Ati
Radeon 7000
8500 (64 and 128mb)
9600
9500pro
9800pro
X850XT
X1800XT
X1900XT
X1900XTX
3870 (2)
3850 (2)
4850
4870
5770
5850
5870

nVidia
TNT2
MX200
MX400
MX420
6800GT
7800GT
8800GTS 640
8800GT 512
9800GT
9800GTX
9800GX2
GTX260
GTX285 (2)

**Ket** · 03-10-2010, 06:19 AM

Yea well I'm not stupid an piss money away on graphics cards like water

Generally I buy something for the sake of it being a worthwhile upgrade, and in the cases such as the 8200 for experimental purposes to see how drivers are progressing and evaluate that evidence for future purchases / recommendations.

**ReverendMaynard** · 03-10-2010, 06:28 AM

Stupid? no. Pure enthusiast? yes. Learnt allot running all of those cards into the ground. Ati and nVidia suck equally lol.

**flashnc** · 03-10-2010, 06:34 AM

for the sake of argument ( and I agree the 260 is a lesser performing card comparable to the 9800gx2 ) but lets play devils advocate here....do you have any performance/benchmarking that has been done with the GX2??? 3dm6 whatever.... thats always there in the results page** now go ahead and run the 260 and see what the performance really is.....also if your play specific games all the time you know what your basic performance was prior to the 260...is it lower higher etc???

Now I agree and I would certianly be on the phone to higher ups* having paid a substantially higher price for one card to be replaced with a much lower priced card a either end of the price point ( new or old) and try to convince them that its not acceptable...just my 2 cents

By the way I have had the 260 the 285 also...Id say the 285 would be closer in performance ( not actually having ever had the 9800GX2 though to compare with)

**Ket** · 03-10-2010, 06:44 AM

Originally Posted by ReverendMaynard

Stupid? no. Pure enthusiast? yes. Learnt allot running all of those cards into the ground. Ati and nVidia suck equally lol.

lol "learn" what exactly? That a different GTX285 or 3870 OCd better than the previous one?

Seriously, a lot of the cards you listed were not upgrades at all.. barely even worthy of being considered a side-grade. 3850>3870, umm.. why? 9800GT>9800GTX...

X1900XT>X1900XTX

I could pick out more examples if you wish

Lots of money spent on cards you could of put toward building one ultimate system IMO.

**chuchnit** · 03-10-2010, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by Ket

lol "learn" what exactly? That a different GTX285 or 3870 OCd better than the previous one?

Seriously, a lot of the cards you listed were not upgrades at all.. barely even worthy of being considered a side-grade. 3850>3870, umm.. why? 9800GT>9800GTX...

X1900XT>X1900XTX

I could pick out more examples if you wish

Lots of money spent on cards you could of put toward building one ultimate system IMO.

Yah, but each card has its own set of hardware boints

**ReverendMaynard** · 03-10-2010, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by Ket

lol "learn" what exactly? That a different GTX285 or 3870 OCd better than the previous one?

Seriously, a lot of the cards you listed were not upgrades at all.. barely even worthy of being considered a side-grade. 3850>3870, umm.. why? 9800GT>9800GTX...

X1900XT>X1900XTX

I could pick out more examples if you wish

Lots of money spent on cards you could of put toward building one ultimate system IMO.

Ahh, for someone who is/thinks he's intelligent you pretty much react to most posts about spending money here at XS with the assumption that everyone is a consumer. Possibly I'm an engineer for a company that installs these cards and I get them for free? Another possibility is that those cards were sold, and the next cards were had for dirt cheap? I'd go with both. Maybe take your head out of your behind and think before you spew bs?

EDIT regarding your edit: Actually, I went from the 3870's to the 3850's because I burnt them up pounding the sauce out of them. Stay on your crusade of telling people what they should spend their money on, and what is a "waste" and what isn't. Keep guys with a hwbot sig out of it because 99.9% of us will laugh at you

**ban916** · 03-10-2010, 11:34 AM

I'm going to end this right now!! To the op I had a 9800gx2 and was on my third rma, I requested to recieve a gtx 260 core 216 in place of the 9800gx2 because it is a better card!! I use my system mainy for gaming at 1920x1200 resoultion and with and aa turned on the gtx 260 kills the 9800gx2. It is a better card crank up the resoultion and the aa and be happy.

**TrevorMcPoonage** · 03-10-2010, 12:38 PM

My monitors max resolution in 1680 x 1050. Im not going to buy a whole new monitor just to enjoy a mild improvement in graphics at higher resolution. I have been doing some more research on the issue however and and coming to accept the gtx 260 216 core isn't much worse than the 9800gx2.

A final question, I love strategy games. Lots of units, lots and lots. Biggest armies possible. Which card is better? The GTX 260 216 core has more vid mem per card... but 9800gx2 more overall.... But at the end of the day, strategy is why I game on the PC and not my xbox 360.

The following reviews have left me skeptical however.

http://www.nvnews.net/reviews/evga_g...6/page_5.shtml

The GTX 260 216 core ia beaten by the GTX 280 in all these games. Only by a bit.

Yet in this review

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...0,1953-21.html

and this review

http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/g..._msi_n280gtx/5

The GTX 280 is beaten by the 9800GX2 in some games loses in others, but the difference is minimal (even possible 9800gx2 advantage, especially in games I play minus crysis, which is just eye candy and crap game really).

Hence (in terms of performance):

9800GX2 ≈ GTX 280

GTX 280 > GTX 260 216 Core

Therefore:

9800GX2 > GTX 260 216 Core

Conclusion:

I have been downgraded? Is this evidence?

**Roger_D25** · 03-10-2010, 03:31 PM

Please keep us posted Trevor on how this works out for you, if you decide to push for a different card that is more equal to your previous 9800GX2. I truly think that Movieman had the best advice (Post # 40) and that advice will give you the best chance of making progress with eVGA towards getting a better replacement card. Many of us, myself included, have delt with eVGA and I believe that if you continue communicated with them in a calm and objective manner they will come through for you (at least that has always been my experience with eVGA). However its been almost a year since I've had to RMA anything with eVGA and given these economic times maybe things are a bit different. In any case I'm very curious as to the outcome of this!

**SamHughe** · 03-10-2010, 03:51 PM

EVGA 9800GX2 Sells about $200 on Ebay

GeForce GTX 260 Core 216 is being sold for $214 at newegg even more expensive in other places.

You can certainly push for a 275 but I wouldn't hold high hopes.

Good luck.

P.S.: Another thing to keep in mind. If you want to sell your card right now, which one sells more easily and for more money?

**Warboy** · 03-10-2010, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by Ket

Unfortunately for me nVidia have always been significantly worse.

My VC history

-snip-

I make it a habit to sample the other side periodically to see how things have improved. For me, the green side was always worse. Much hotter running and drivers were abysmal, randomly BSODing and I couldn't play Theme Hospital where the 2D side of NVs drivers are borked.

I've used the following

ATI
ATI Radeon 6 - 9 series including a ATI 9800 XT (?) been awhile...
Radeon HD3870

NVIDIA
TNT2
Geforce4
6800GS 256MB
7950GT 512MB
8800GTS 320MB
8800GTX
GTX 280
GTX 285

But in eVGA defense, they are right about "smooth" since you would be working with one gpu, You wouldn't have the microstuttering between 2 gpus. Just food for thought.

**TrevorMcPoonage** · 03-11-2010, 02:02 PM

http://www.evga.com/FORUMS/tm.aspx?m=226896
My Post on the Nvidia forums.

EVGA_ArneS is most likely the same person I have been communicating with in my emails, he too works for EVGA and is called Arne

Not looking good though in terms of the card

.

**knopflerbruce** · 03-12-2010, 05:50 AM

That guy should be fired if EVGA wants to have a good reputation, his posts are complete BS. If the card performs less on the customer's preferred settings it's worse. EOD.

I game on 1280x1024, with aa and af off, and if some guy told me to crank them up to make the replacement card competitive I'd go

and then

Plus, I never saw microstuttering mentioned in any ads for this card. Now it's suddenly important, when EVGA benefits from it?? O-M-G!

**dejanh** · 03-12-2010, 10:59 AM

I would suggest that you contact Joe Darwin, Director of Technical Marketing directly about this. You can reach him at jdarwin@evga.com, or alternatively you can try calling their US toll-free number and demanding that you speak to him. What you received as a replacement is not the equivalent card but a much worse card. The very least that you should have received would have been a GTX280 which IMHO would have been a very good card to get, possibly even an upgrade.

Hope things work out for you.

**JAG87** · 03-12-2010, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by knopflerbruce

That guy should be fired if EVGA wants to have a good reputation, his posts are complete BS. If the card performs less on the customer's preferred settings it's worse. EOD.

I game on 1280x1024, with aa and af off, and if some guy told me to crank them up to make the replacement card competitive I'd go

and then

Plus, I never saw microstuttering mentioned in any ads for this card. Now it's suddenly important, when EVGA benefits from it?? O-M-G!

QFT.

Originally Posted by dejanh

I would suggest that you contact Joe Darwin, Director of Technical Marketing directly about this. You can reach him at jdarwin@evga.com, or alternatively you can try calling their US toll-free number and demanding that you speak to him. What you received as a replacement is not the equivalent card but a much worse card. The very least that you should have received would have been a GTX280 which IMHO would have been a very good card to get, possibly even an upgrade.

Hope things work out for you.

And QFT again.

**IvanG** · 03-12-2010, 10:21 PM

can a 9800x2 do this?

if can. u have Been Ripped Off IMHO

**TrevorMcPoonage** · 03-13-2010, 03:27 AM

Originally Posted by IvanG

can a 9800x2 do this?

if can. u have Been Ripped Off IMHO

Yes it did beat that, If anyone has an account over at BuildYourOwn.org.uk (they recently made it so you can only see forums with account???) you can see my score for 3dmark06 under the video cards section. My username is Trevor True nOOb and I got 17700 with an E8400, not an E8500 like in that pic. I only had 2GB of DDR2 RAM aswell. I wish I had posted my later screenshots on there (I didnt because i couldnt be bothered, i wasn't overclocking to beat people and I was top anyway at the time on that forum) I once got 18400 when I overclocked to 4ghz (same cpu speed as in that pic) on my e8400. Just read page 128 and see. This was posted just under two years ago when I first built my PC, unforntunately links to imageshack (where screenshots were stored) have since expired, but by reading everyone elses responses and the fact I was placed in the rankings it is obviously genuine.

http://www.buildyourown.org.uk/forum...&whichpage=128

If you read my post at the EVGA forums I mentioned my drop in 3DMark06 score, Arne simply replied that it is designed to benchmark older games, hence the 9800gX2 scores better in it....

Thanks Dejanh, I will contact him.

Also, @ JAG87... QFT??? does that mean quit f*cking trying? Aparently it's an acyonym for a few things such as quantum field theory