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Thread: Need a Receiver!

  1. #1
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    Need a Receiver!

    I'm looking for a receiver for a new home theater setup. Budget around 300.

    Requirements:

    * Audio pass through on HDMI
    * 5.1 surround minimum
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  2. #2
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    Onkyo TX-SR307 should fit that bill at full MSRP. I'd try looking for a 507 on sale, I'd bet you could get one around $300 if you really scoured the Interweb.


    I am a little confused on why you would want it to support audio pass-through and also be 5.1 capable... I would have thought you would use it for audio, but W/E. I haven't used either model to verify 100%, but I'm pretty sure you can configure audio pass-through on them.


    This is, of course, assuming you want to buy new. Buying something used gives you a lot more options, but then you do of course have to take your chances with quality and lifetime.
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    Think the TX-SR607 is the best you can get for around $300.

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    anything onkyo and the previous quote of onkyo 607.. is out of price range..

    look for an onkyo 606 used.. its what i have its great i dono if its 300$ yet tho

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    Is the sony str1000 or a yamaha equivalent any good? Or does the Onkyo receiver pretty much trump those receivers? im kind of expanding the budget to 300-400
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    Newegg has the 507 for $320 and the 607 for $400 both with free shipping.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-131-_-Product

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-133-_-Product
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nanometer View Post
    Is the sony str1000 or a yamaha equivalent any good? Or does the Onkyo receiver pretty much trump those receivers? im kind of expanding the budget to 300-400
    I would expect the Onkyo to trump them, especially if you can get a 607. It won't drive as much wattage as a comparable Sony/Yamaha, but the sound quality at what it will drive should be better.
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    The 607 it is then... unless something better comes out in 3 weeks... thanks guys!
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    Onkyo not having as much wattage as a Sony? What are you smoking man?

    Sony bloats their wattage ratings a ton. It cant actually push out on a normal basis anywhere close to what they advertise. If a Sony says 100w per channel, it is probably closer to 30w. Sony is probably the worst offender in wattage ratings of any company.

    And if you have efficient speakers, you dont need a lot of wattage anyway. If you have speaker with a 92dB efficiency, that means with only 30 watts you can get over 105 dB from your speakers. That is pretty loud. What you really need is current behind the wattage (as well as other things) and very few receivers have any real driving power, especially in the sub $1000 range.
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    onkoyo is an excellent brand. i have the tx-sr805 and she is a beauty in every respect. they are the !
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    The Marantz receiver is in a different class and will out perform any models previously mentioned here.

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    Yamaha can take 8-6 ohm loads...
    at 90-95 watts you can possibly get it for 300-500$
    7.1 would probably be around 500 and you can bi-amp if you have a more power hungry floorstanding front speaker.

    Onkyo and yamahas are great brands, onkyo seems higher priced were I am though.
    Marantz is definitely better but would cost you more then 300 even used.
    You maybe able to find a used rotel, I would be around the same level as the lower marantz stuff.

    I hope this helps a bit in your choices.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EniGmA1987 View Post
    Onkyo not having as much wattage as a Sony? What are you smoking man?

    Sony bloats their wattage ratings a ton. It cant actually push out on a normal basis anywhere close to what they advertise. If a Sony says 100w per channel, it is probably closer to 30w. Sony is probably the worst offender in wattage ratings of any company.

    And if you have efficient speakers, you dont need a lot of wattage anyway. If you have speaker with a 92dB efficiency, that means with only 30 watts you can get over 105 dB from your speakers. That is pretty loud. What you really need is current behind the wattage (as well as other things) and very few receivers have any real driving power, especially in the sub $1000 range.
    Hmm..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSZlXoI_kCc. This "100" WPC Sony seems to have no issues delivering 112 WPC.

    Yes manufacturers often "play" with the ratings a bit, but don't spew BS saying there is going to be that much of a difference between actual output and rated output with a somewhat respectable brand.

    Also, Watts = Volts x Amps. Since speakers are a fixed resistance, the only way to drive more current into their voice coils is to pump more voltage in. A cheapo amp that putouts out an honest to god 100 watts with a 4 ohm load will be pushing the exact same current as a $15,000 100watt amp with the same 4 ohm load.

    I will however agree that with efficient speakers, you don't need lots of power to get good loud sound.
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    Quote Originally Posted by [XC] Lead Head View Post
    Hmm..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSZlXoI_kCc. This "100" WPC Sony seems to have no issues delivering 112 WPC.

    Yes manufacturers often "play" with the ratings a bit, but don't spew BS saying there is going to be that much of a difference between actual output and rated output with a somewhat respectable brand.

    Also, Watts = Volts x Amps. Since speakers are a fixed resistance, the only way to drive more current into their voice coils is to pump more voltage in. A cheapo amp that putouts out an honest to god 100 watts with a 4 ohm load will be pushing the exact same current as a $15,000 100watt amp with the same 4 ohm load.

    I will however agree that with efficient speakers, you don't need lots of power to get good loud sound.
    Speakers are definitely not a fixed resistance, what is typically listed on commercial speakers is merely a nominal figure. The impedance range/curve of a speaker can easily dip well below its stated ohms in a given frequency range. This can result in a 4 ohm speaker's impedance being ~2 ohms, which receiver amplifiers (especially in this price range) are rarely built to drive these loads for any sustained period or regular frequency (and a good deal of separate amps aren't built to a 2 ohm standard either), potentially damaging both amplifier and speakers. This is not the case for all speakers, but certainly a considerable amount have these characteristics.

    Now, let's be real about manufacturer stated specifications... they are indeed rarely close to what is stated. The problem is, what we're looking for is honest power ratings with all channels driven simultaneously, manufacturers rarely test with this methodology, this is intentional. They will say it's all channels driven, but it is not simultaneously, they will test with 2 channels driven at a time, or even 1 at a time. This is especially true of Onkyo, and more recently, Yamaha (I'm sure others, but I haven't researched other companies). It's a reasonable assumption that a majority of the most successful (what you might call "respectable") CE manufacturers employ this type of marketing. They appear to give you alot for your money, and rarely will a consumer have the capability or means to realize the difference, this has meant that real world simultaneous A.C.D. bench testing has yielded actual numbers that are half, or as much as a third of the stated specification.

    Back to the original question, I would recommend a Yamaha RX-V665, it's around your desired price range and has a wealth of connectivity and all the features one would want out of an entry-level A/V receiver currently, including 7.1 analog pre-outs for if you ever decide to add separate amplifiers to your system. For the above reasons and others, provided you have good enough speakers, the upgrade is appreciable.
    Last edited by coyotetu; 02-15-2010 at 09:10 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by [XC] Lead Head View Post
    Hmm..[urlAlso, Watts = Volts x Amps. Since speakers are a fixed resistance, the only way to drive more current into their voice coils is to pump more voltage in. A cheapo amp that putouts out an honest to god 100 watts with a 4 ohm load will be pushing the exact same current as a $15,000 100watt amp with the same 4 ohm load.
    That is not my understanding of speakers and power at all. I KNOW speakers are NOT fixed resistance, it varies depending on the speaker and the frequencies. So that part of your statement is definately wrong. This next part is my understanding but I guess I could be wrong and not know how they work...


    wattage for speaker is V2/I, or voltage squared divided by impedance. Idealy a power amplifier should be able to double its power produced every time you half the Ohms. Now I THINK that power amps have a fixed voltage and the current is what fluctuates to give the different wattage. So having an amplifier capable of high ammounts of current would mean that the amp is capable of properly driving speakers across a large area of impedance, and when the speakers dip into really low impedance. I have seen some speakers that will even go down below 2 Ohms even if the nominal impedance is 4 Ohm. You can even see graphs showing that some speakers can go up higher than 30 Ohms at certain points in the frequency spectrum (generally down in the very low areas)

    Also it was my understanding that since loudspeakers are rated in wattage, you can do different combinations of voltage and amperage to get the given wattage. Normal professional power amps are 35v outputs, and when bridged they become 70v. But I was given to understand that you *could* use 18v and double the amps and it would still work fine. But I really dont know for sure on that.





    Also, I found this when researching you claimed 112 watts per channel that was measured in a Sony rated for 100w:

    For example, an Onkyo 900, rated by the manufacturer at 125 wpc into 7 channels, was found by Sound & Vision to only produce 52 watts per channel when it was tested with all seven channels active. Yamaha, Denon, Kenwood, Onkyo and many others are all challenged to meet their specified power. Sony ES wouldn't even let Sound & Vision test one of their receiver's power claiming that "it wasn't designed to have all channels active at the same time."
    Last edited by EniGmA1987; 02-17-2010 at 07:05 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EniGmA1987 View Post
    That is not my understanding of speakers and power at all. I KNOW speakers are NOT fixed resistance, it varies depending on the speaker and the frequencies. So that part of your statement is definately wrong. This next part is my understanding but I guess I could be wrong and not know how they work...


    wattage for speaker is V2/I, or voltage squared divided by impedance. Idealy a power amplifier should be able to double its power produced every time you half the Ohms. Now I THINK that power amps have a fixed voltage and the current is what fluctuates to give the different wattage. So having an amplifier capable of high ammounts of current would mean that the amp is capable of properly driving speakers across a large area of impedance, and when the speakers dip into really low impedance. I have seen some speakers that will even go down below 2 Ohms even if the nominal impedance is 4 Ohm. You can even see graphs showing that some speakers can go up higher than 30 Ohms at certain points in the frequency spectrum (generally down in the very low areas)
    You can't control current without reducing voltage. If I stick a DMM across the output of my amplifier and turn the volume up, the output voltage goes up with it.

    Fixed voltage/constant voltage amplifiers are typically only used for PA systems or the ceiling mounted speakers you see in restaurants, stores, supermarkets, etc..The amplifier usually has one fixed output level, and the speakers themselves have their own step down transformers. These systems are fixed volume. These systems put out a fixed voltage, and therefore current changes based on how loud the incoming music is. So yes in this case an amplifier that could deliver gobs of current would be ideal. I don't know about you, but I sure as hell don't use fixed volume PA speakers in my personal system...


    Also, I found this when researching you claimed 112 watts per channel that was measured in a Sony rated for 100w:
    That Sony I linked still put out 112% of its rated power
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    All channels driven simultaneously?
    My HK has that covered

    Honestly ya can't go wrong with any receivers in the mid-range class.

    Yamaha,Pioneer,s Elite class, Onkyo(my 605,s DD and DTS decoder works whenever it wants)
    Denon, and Sony ES are all good.
    I have had Sony ES, have an HK AVR 235 and the Onkyo 605. All sound great.

    My next purchase will be another HK or i really want a NAD
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirheck View Post
    All channels driven simultaneously?
    My HK has that covered

    Honestly ya can't go wrong with any receivers in the mid-range class.

    Yamaha,Pioneer,s Elite class, Onkyo(my 605,s DD and DTS decoder works whenever it wants)
    Denon, and Sony ES are all good.
    I have had Sony ES, have an HK AVR 235 and the Onkyo 605. All sound great.

    My next purchase will be another HK or i really want a NAD
    Yamaha's entry level is lacking lately on keeping up with its stated specifications, Onkyo's been bad on that count for a long while, Pioneer used to build them well but they're also going down that unfortunate path and I'm not sure about Denon or Sony.

    HK has been pretty consistent and truthful about their power ratings so far, which is why they seem so low in comparison to others. It's a shame their recent line(s) of receivers have been so buggy.
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    Hi, HK AVR 245
    It is an older model, has HDMI passthru, 7.1 direct inputs, 7.1 pre-outs, Honest 50wpc all channels driver low distortion. I have no trouble playing clean 105db with peaks to 115db from 6 feet without maxing the volume control. Has 2 HDMI inputs, 2 component inputs, no video processing (my favorite feature), optical and coax, other features. Only thing missing is a switched 120v output. The 7.1 inputs useful for Blue-Ray audio or PC gaming. Does DTS and DD+DPLIIx over optical. Picked it up for $100usd on ebay.

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    Yamaha,Pioneer,s Elite class, Onkyo(my 605,s DD and DTS decoder works whenever it wants)
    Use pure direct?

    I have a lower end yammy @ 95wpc driving my energy rc-70 bi-amped... sound pretty good. Bass was better compared to normally wiring

    Supposedly higher current could result in better sound and produces better bass and sounds more full, a 125 watt high current dedicated amp cna beat receiver that drives by voltage even if its rated at 200.
    You might want t looks for specs that can double down say 100watts 8ohm, 200watts 4 ohm; higher end -> can double down further.

    ie 100@8ohm -> 200@4ohm -> 400@2ohm

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    I found Denon AVR 1610 very good for the price it cost around $350-$400 in the states i think.
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    I just purchased the Onkyo 607, I hope I'm happy with it =-p
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    The Marantz i mentioned is a better receiver for less $$$, the "reconditioned unit" scare you off ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nanometer View Post
    I just purchased the Onkyo 607, I hope I'm happy with it =-p
    Very nice choice!

    Quote Originally Posted by coyotetu View Post
    Yamaha's entry level is lacking lately on keeping up with its stated specifications, Onkyo's been bad on that count for a long while, Pioneer used to build them well but they're also going down that unfortunate path and I'm not sure about Denon or Sony.

    HK has been pretty consistent and truthful about their power ratings so far, which is why they seem so low in comparison to others. It's a shame their recent line(s) of receivers have been so buggy.
    Having had many receivers, hell still got about 8 in the house right now I find that Pioneer isn't going down anywhere, hell, they seem to be getting better. I'd take my VSX-819H over any of the others in the $350 price range or less. I like my Harmon Kardon 245 but love my old school Harmon Kardon 730 and think NOTHING touches the 930 model of the same Receiver unless you start talking very high end MAC's and Carvers or similar.

    All I have to say about Sony that they are FOS (Full of $#it! Sony's 100 watts is like Harmon Kardon's saying theirs are at 20W Per Channel. Sony invented the wattage lie and many followed their way of doing it. Had they tried something like this in the 70's, they'd have been laughed out of the Market.

    http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/rec...ine-page2.html

    All are worst-case figures where applicable.

    Output at clipping (1 kHz into 8/4 ohms)
    1 channel driven: 84/138 watts (19.2/21.4 dBW)
    5 channels driven (8 ohms): 30 watts (14.8 dBW)*
    Distortion at 1 watt (THD+N, 1 kHz, 8 or 4 ohms): 0.02%
    Noise level (A-weighted): -75.1 dB
    Excess noise (with sine tone)
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