The GT300/Fermi Thread - Part 2!

[mindfury]

And yeah, the 470 would beat the 285 by about 20%~25%. That's really about 5870 levels. Depends on which game you're looking at.

From computerbase latest test:



http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/h...formancerating

[kemo]

The GTX 4xx has allready started effecting 5870's price nice i love it...

HIS 5870 FOR $380.....

24-hour special , nothing to do with GTX 4xx

[BenchZowner]

you could be forgiven for thinking ati had been tipped off, that fermi was close to the 5970's performance.(unlikely at this point)

so ati have released an enhanced spec for its partners to produce a card 20% faster with 4gb gddr5...

or they might just be playing it safe and have decided they are going to keep the performance crown no matter what.

cant wait for the real bench's because we have so much misdirection...

what we know for sure is nvidia is really sucking ati's balls really hard at this point...

You sound so sure of nVIDIA Fermi's crappiness.
Do you have any private info that we don't ?
I hope Fermi fails because it's going to be very hard for you to eat your words

[xdan]

So now "the pore yelds, broken, unfixable" can do 750MHZ core?

[Nedjo]

So now "the pore yelds, broken, unfixable" can do 750MHZ core?

exactly!

it would be achievement if 480SP enabled core can achieve 600MHz for descent supply...

[Tim]

What can I do, Nvidia is so indecisive. Looks like the final decision of cutting the card to 480SP was made within the last couple of days.

Oh man, that would suck so hard, seriously, if that's true, I'm thinking about just forgetting about getting Fermi after all. Maybe I will pick up a cheap 5870, or even cheaper 285 to tide me over. Well....I don't need them actually, maybe Crysis 2. Gives me some time to see how this will pan out.

[annihilat0r]

So now "the pore yelds, broken, unfixable" can do 750MHZ core?

yeah but the initial target was 750mhz with 512sp.

they ended up with 480sp and even that can't do 750mhz.

I'd like ALL this info to be wrong and Fermi show up with 750mhz 512sp... with 200w TDP and for only $500 but then I'd like people to elect me the President as well.

But I do think GTX 480 won't be more than $500, because its performance level won't justify anything more.

[Nedjo]

GF100 will NOT be featured on Quadro's: http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/d...ar_Nvidia.html

[orangekiwii]

They should release some Ultra-GTX480

750 mhz - 512 sps


It would sell, and they could charge a load for it


And they would basically match the 5970

[Behemot]

They should release some Ultra-GTX480

750 mhz - 512 sps


It would sell, and they could charge a load for it

I think this would be Quadro ones Desktop parts would be cutted, slower or both as there is way more defective cores (but working with some cutting-down).

[zalbard]

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20100225PD202.html

Not surprising at all. Besides, it is possible that Nvidia wants to 'please' the most loyal partners giving them a headstart.

The GTX 4xx has allready started effecting 5870's price nice i love it...

HIS 5870 FOR $380.....

Awesome! Fermi better be cheap as well!
It's a pity 5970's prices aren't really dropping yet.

[trinibwoy]

Are 5970's even available for sale anywhere? It needs to be in stock before we get price drops.

[Etihtsarom]

I remember the 8800 Ultras @ ~$900. Lets not hope for that with the 480. I'm holding out for $300 5870 or $500 5970 or $400 480, whichever comes first.

[Yvese]

$680 for the GTX480? Who would pay for that if it's in 5970 territory? That's just silly.

[***Deimos***]

As far as I could gather from what some people (who gave reliable info in the past, not sure of the present ) have been saying, the decision was 512SP with 650Mhz clockspeed but then it was ditched just within the last couple of days in favor of 480SP, 700+ clockspeed and higher availability of the cards.

Obviously every such info could be wrong but I don't think they could be far off.

In terms of computing power, 512 x 650 is as much as 480 x 700 but we'll see..

	750	700	650	600
512	3.84	3.58	3.33	3.07
480	3.60	3.36	3.12	2.88
448	3.36	3.14	2.91	2.69

higher base clock is better for TMU/ROP no?
but since shader power is proportional, every 50Mhz is tradeoff like a 32SP block.

exactly!

it would be achievement if 480SP enabled core can achieve 600MHz for descent supply...

I'm surprised by recent "news" too. I also would consider a 480SP part in >10k to be a huge success, even at 600Mhz.

Remember the "amazing" 8800GT launch on mature 65nm process. It was 112 out of 128SP, 600 out of 738Mhz (GTX+), and exact same architecture as year old GTX.

Back before 5970 I was adamant it would require special low voltage binning, low clocks, or lower SP count, or all above.

I just find it very very difficult to believe Fermi's 3B transistors can be SO MUCH more efficient that you'd get very high SP AND 750Mhz. Like having cake and eating it too. Too good to be true. Yield (# defective chips) issues may improve over time, but physics doesnt.

480SP x 600Mhz is more realistic because:

• less power/heat - not as much trouble getting PCIE and power supply certified
• 480SP drastically improves availability. Extra cluster makes marginal performance difference.
• room for future "ULTRA" version. Look at GF6/7/8/200.. they always make room for ULTRA.
• TSMC transistor variance issues. If you're going for a hike up a mountain with olympic athletes, all within sec of each other, you can safetly go at high pace. Throw in some stragglers and you're forced to lower pace.
• teething in new architecture. Face it, 8800GTX didn't break any clock records. It was ONLY 575Mhz. Why expect a miracle out of the 2nd biggest chip every made in history of mankind? Getting a fully working chip is astonishing enough engineering feat like Burj Dubai
• 480 is "only" 2x SP on GTX285. And "only" 40-50% more bandwidth. Thats actually HUGE. Fermi is so hyped beyond belief, as if CPU and other system bottlenecks don't apply to it.

[saaya]

you should...

we should...

I would also suggest that we all...

We must...

You may not suggest what i write. I chose my own words based on my ideas.

back on topic, guys, do you think nvidia just sent out cards to its partners without telling them how many sps they have and whether they are 470s or 480s? they could also have sent them at different clocks, to then check their feedback and see what partners think about what configuration and what clocks and prices etc... kinda like testing their partners feedback what prices and speeds would be acceptable.

im not sure if gpuz can read fermis configuration, even reading clockspeeds is tricky on some new cards before they are officially released... so this might explain the confusion...

[Blacky]

Seems to me Fermi is going to fail, if I was nvidia I would dump fermi (like intel did with Larrabe) and go for the next-gen gpu, at this point fermi will born dead, since ATi is cooking their next-gen too and if Fermi performance is on par with ATi current offerings is going to be even worse for the green guys...I don't know what is passing through nvidia mind, they had problems with GT200 at start because the chip was gigantic, they had problems jumping to 55nm too and now the do the same mistake. AFAIK you learn from the mistakes you did in the past to no do it again, but seems nvidia doesn't...

[Sam_oslo]

back on topic, guys, do you think nvidia just sent out cards to its partners without telling them how many sps they have and whether they are 470s or 480s? they could also have sent them at different clocks, to then check their feedback and see what partners think about what configuration and what clocks and prices etc... kinda like testing their partners feedback what prices and speeds would be acceptable.

im not sure if gpuz can read fermis configuration, even reading clockspeeds is tricky on some new cards before they are officially released... so this might explain the confusion...

back on topic
Target is 750mhz with 512sp.

[Nedjo]

this isn't Photochoped, it's actual banner from partners website!

this prophet just don't give up

[StimulatedBoy]

...

Hi my friend, good to see you again. One of the great inventions of this forum is the ignore list. Just type in his name, like the rest of us, and it's like he's not here at all. Just like some kind of magic... :-)

Thank you for addressing and illuminating the various issues raised and for not loosing your patience with us.

Rob

[saaya]

Seems to me Fermi is going to fail, if I was nvidia I would dump fermi (like intel did with Larrabe) and go for the next-gen gpu, at this point fermi will born dead, since ATi is cooking their next-gen too and if Fermi performance is on par with ATi current offerings is going to be even worse for the green guys...I don't know what is passing through nvidia mind, they had problems with GT200 at start because the chip was gigantic, they had problems jumping to 55nm too and now the do the same mistake. AFAIK you learn from the mistakes you did in the past to no do it again, but seems nvidia doesn't...

i think thats too pessimistic man...
think about it, even a 600mhz 480sp part will be a double gtx280... its not going to be slow... it will be less than nvidia hoped for and less than some expect, but it will be able to compete with 5870 and 5970... its not like nvidia will lose the performance battle... if anything it will be a draw with both ati and nvidia winning some here and some there...

cancelling fermi would not make sense... you wouldnt be able to release a new gpu faster by cancelling fermi, you would just lose all the money you invested in it and let ati reign free... im sure they are focussing a lot on their next gen project right now, but fermi wont be cancelled...
performance isnt the problem to begin with, its cost...
and nvidia has two good chances to improve on that, they can improve 40nm yields with a new stepping which they are already working on, and there is 28nm...

those are both risky though... their main problem is cost, and the only safe way to improve on that is cutting fermi down... i really hope they will get a cut down fermi out asap... its good for nvidia, and its good for us... there wont be notable price impacts from a 470 and 480 in low quantities... its even possible that prices dont change at all after fermi launches... : /
no price drops = hw industry slows down even more, consoles eat more market share = worse gaming overall... cause lets face it, consoles CANT replace pcs when it comes to gaming...

Hi my friend, good to see you again. One of the great inventions of this forum is the ignore list. Just type in his name, like the rest of us, and it's like he's not here at all. Just like some kind of magic... :-)

Thank you for addressing and illuminating the various issues raised and for not loosing your patience with us.

Rob

hey dude
yeah i know, but even geforceti4200 and some other guys who were much worse than him didnt make me use that function
plus with all the strange comments he posts he gets quoted frequently so ill end up seeing his posts anyhow...

this isn't Photochoped, it's actual banner from partners website!

this prophet just don't give up

thats what fermi causes jensen for sure, cold sweats and fast heartbeats... and i bet it causes him quite some sleepless nights too
but luckily he knows he doesnt make mistakes and he just has to insist on his ideas for long enough to be successful

[damha]

You are right, low quantities won't matter. Because no one will be buying it

[saaya]

You are right, low quantities won't matter. Because no one will be buying it

i dont think so, people WILL buy it, demand will outstrip supply big time, which will drive prices up and give people a headache... ultimately ati wont have to lower prices cause it wont be easy to find fermi cards and they will be expensive...

thats what i think will happen for the first month, maybe even until june...

[Sam_oslo]

The price of Fermi would depend on the completion, not the speculation on umber of cards. and if the ATi-competition comes with 86-series later this year, or with a 28nm next year, it won't help.

If ATi has an existing or new/refresh GPU to match the Fermi-performance at launch, then will see good prices. But a superior Fermi with no competition won't come cheap.

[DosDuoNo]

i dont care what ya'all are saying, my nvidia will come through for me, they allways have and allways will, i for one have £500 UK sitting here just waiting from the nod from Jen-Hsun, i expect an email from him any day, my old mucker