The GT300/Fermi Thread - Part 2!

[saaya]

Its the custom highend boards, ROG, Matrix, Lightning, etc. he was also talking about overclocking those cards.

well, the fastest i heard of was the gigabyte card and that was cut down from 1ghz to 950 and now maybe even to 925, cause the latest rv870 chips dont clock that well anymore... probably a result of tsmc doing some weird things to try and improve yields...

the highest ln2 clocks i heard of were 1300... so i REALLY find it hard to believe 1150 stable on air...

I dont think nVidia mid-range will launch in March, or even April.

sigh... : /
a 256core fermi with 256bit gddr5 and 700mhz clocks should be pretty fast, about 5850 levels... and it would be the same size as a 5850 as well, if not even slightly smaller... we would have some real competition then... sigh... : /

[Chumbucket843]

they would be a lot better off with a 1600MHz 256SP part first. they probably can reuse a lot of dies that dont have all 512 sp's working for the middle range card. maybe even have a dual gpu card based off of that. ;-)

[***Deimos***]

sigh... : /
a 256core fermi with 256bit gddr5 and 700mhz clocks should be pretty fast, about 5850 levels... and it would be the same size as a 5850 as well, if not even slightly smaller... we would have some real competition then... sigh... : /

I dunno, the bar for nVidia is pretty high:
850Mhz 800SP 128bit (2.4Ghz GDDR5)

May not seem like much, but for fraction of cost and power of HD4870, the HD57xx has nearly same performance and DX11 (ofcourse).

Do you think really nVidia will be making 850Mhz chips anytime this year - remember GT240 = 550Mhz?

[johnieboy]

Not 100% sure where those numbers come from (which tests & settings are used) but yes, there are some reasonable gains in DiRT 2 and BF: BC2 from 9.11 to even 10.2 but otherwise, all the other games I have tested (AvP, Far Cry 2, Dragon Age, DoW, Borderlands, Batman: AA in game, etc) have seen next to no differences with single cards. The 10.3 drivers are really designed to take advantage of Crossfire solutions including the HD 5970 as was stated by ATI.

Anno 1404 had a huge performance boost with a single 5870 and the 10.2 Catalyst.

~40% faster then former Catalyst versions in 1920x1200 1xAA/1xAF and ~30% in 1920x1200 4xAA/16xAF

http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/h...nitt_anno_1404

[SKYMTL]

I've got a bit of time to kill before we go out to dinner....so I am about to pull a Saaya. Sorry in advance.

None of those are facts though, it's still speculation. The new catalyst drivers are a big improvement over launch drivers, but most review sites won't take the time to re-review the cards. Once the initial results are in, I have rarely seen an update across the board for new drivers.

It really depends on which way you look at things. Pre release drivers are sent out and then months later, there are new games out. So naturally, more recent drivers will perform better in newer games versus drivers that were released months ago. It all comes down to optimizations. Then again, there are those drivers that totally break functionality with a game (I remember a particular instance with NVIDIA drivers and MII: Total War). And yes, they are facts.

The next revision of cypress has been rumored to clock very well, (I know, just a rumor, but the same as what you have been saying) so it's not out of the realm of possibility that 1Ghz cards are on the horizon.

You were talking to me about not posting facts and then you go and post a totally unsubstantiated rumor. Every point I posted came directly from the mouths of ATI's board partners, not some random internet rumor. I don't even need to quote them to back myself up. MSI, XFX, ASUS, PowerColor, etc. have all clocked their highest-end HD 5870 cards below 925Mhz and that should say something.

That one i dont get,for one i live in a pretty small and poor country,i can order HD5970 now and have it shipped in 24hrs.Its been like this for months now,the cards are very high end, so there arent alot of them,but not because of lack of them, but retaileres dont wanna stock much of them,cos they sell tiny amount of them,and every price fluctuation can cost them more then they make on them.

I am sure there are exceptions due to limited demand in some countries versus the allocation, etc. However, from where I am standing if I wanted to go out and but a HD 5970 right now from one of the large NA retailers (Newegg, NCIX, ZipZoomFly, Amazon) I can find two a ZZF retailing for EIGHT HUNDRED DOLLARS EACH. The other retailers are all MIA for stock.

This bit seems skewed too, there will be many flavours of 5870 2GB,not just eyefinity edition.And using word "excessively",so what ,nvidias 470 and 480 wont be priced "excessively" too if they offer comparable performance ?

Other than the Eyefinity Edition, all other 2GB ATI cards will be manufacturer-specific and usually attached to high-end special edition cards like the Matrix.

i dont think its impossible to buy a 5970 if you want to buy one... availability is low, but isnt that because there isnt that high of a demand for it?
and why are you comparing the 480 with the 5970? and then mention availability? so you think the 480 will be widely available? seriously?

Read it again.

Basically what I am saying is that if the GTX 480 bridges the performance gap between the HD 5870 and HD 5970, NVIDIA can initially price it quite high simply because there will be a sudden influx of GTX 480s into the market while HD 5970s are very rare. I'm not saying that is good for consumers but it would be good for NVIDIA's bottom line.

[SKYMTL]

Anno 1404 had a huge performance boost with a single 5870 and the 10.2 Catalyst.

~40% faster then former Catalyst versions in 1920x1200 1xAA/1xAF and ~30% in 1920x1200 4xAA/16xAF

http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/h...nitt_anno_1404

Ummmm....I play Anno 1404 a lot and there were some pretty significant performance improvements rolled out with the 1.2 patch back in early February. They worked wonders on my older NV gaming system as well.

Not sure if they are at fault for the performance improvements seen in the charts you linked but it is worth mentioning.

[LordEC911]

well, the fastest i heard of was the gigabyte card and that was cut down from 1ghz to 950 and now maybe even to 925, cause the latest rv870 chips dont clock that well anymore... probably a result of tsmc doing some weird things to try and improve yields...

the highest ln2 clocks i heard of were 1300... so i REALLY find it hard to believe 1150 stable on air...

Neliz is just stating what he has seen and heard. CJ has also said the exact samething. You are welcome to believe whatever you want.

March 11th is off btw, launch is right before Furby.
P.S. 5890 is coming! :runaway:

Nothing more than that AMD is really happy about Cypress' current yields.

In fact they are now in a situation where the supply outstrips the demand (if you can't get a Cypress card right now, it's because your AIB isn't ordering enough.

I'd say whatever AMD is doing with their current parts should show up in the market in April/May (as a new product and not yet Hecatoncheires/HD6XXX, there basically is no need for such a product in the short term!)

Some of the partner cards seem to hit 1150Mhz on air.

Yes, but this wasn't really news was it?

We have Lightnings running at about 1150-1175 with stock cooling (Twin Frozr II). Of course it helps that the cooling is pretty good, we use custom PCB with extra layers as well as add 15 phases PWM and added 2x 8 pins power connectors. :P

But it depends really on the GPU sample. I've also seen a R5870 Lightning hardly be able to reach 1000Mhz (early sample)... so 1100+ isn't for everyone although the latest batch should hit it pretty easily.

Also, there is a custom 5970 2x2GB in the works.





XFX, Sapphire and ASUS will be offering them.

[johnieboy]

Not sure if they are at fault for the performance improvements seen in the charts you linked but it is worth mentioning.

When you look at "Benchmarks"

Anno 1404, Vollversion, Version 1.0

So its the Catalyst and not the Patch

[SKYMTL]

When you look at "Benchmarks"



So its the Catalyst and not the Patch

Benchmarking on an outdated version of a game completely defeats the purpose of a benchmark IMO. But I don't want to derail this thread anymore so I will leave it at that.

[RaZz!]

Benchmarking on an outdated version of a game completely defeats the purpose of a benchmark IMO. But I don't want to derail this thread anymore so I will leave it at that.

well, they already had the performance numbers from previous catalysts with version 1.
always benching from scratch with every driver and game version would be a 24/7/365 job, i guess

[weston]

It really depends on which way you look at things. Pre release drivers are sent out and then months later, there are new games out. So naturally, more recent drivers will perform better in newer games versus drivers that were released months ago. It all comes down to optimizations. Then again, there are those drivers that totally break functionality with a game (I remember a particular instance with NVIDIA drivers and MII: Total War). And yes, they are facts.

Basically we are saying the same thing here, the newer drivers help a lot in newer games as they have added optimizations. Whether or not there will be issues in older games is yet to be seen. And yes, those are facts

You were talking to me about not posting facts and then you go and post a totally unsubstantiated rumor. Every point I posted came directly from the mouths of ATI's board partners, not some random internet rumor. I don't even need to quote them to back myself up. MSI, XFX, ASUS, PowerColor, etc. have all clocked their highest-end HD 5870 cards below 925Mhz and that should say something.

I dont care if you post rumors, that's all there really is about fermi at this point. It's when you post speculation, and then say it's facts. If you look, I clearly said mine was a rumor. And yes, I have seen the OC 5870s are currently set at 925Mhz or so, but with a improved revision, there's no reason it couldn't be 975 or 1000Mhz. that's only a 5-8% increase so not out of the question.

Just for comparison, the Overclocked versions of the 4870 were usually around 775 when the 4890 came in at 850Mhz. I don't know how you are so sure it won't be the same way with the 5870.

Just like B1 fermi could be 40 - 50Mhz faster than A3, don't say it's ridiculous when it's entirely possible.

[highoctane]

Just for comparison, the Overclocked versions of the 4870 were usually around 775 when the 4890 came in at 850Mhz. I don't know how you are so sure it won't be the same way with the 5870.

Just like B1 fermi could be 40 - 50Mhz faster than A3, don't say it's ridiculous when it's entirely possible.

One could also assume that the die changes that allowed the 4890's clock improvement are already a part of 5870 from launch, what if there is no clock mojo this time.

You can really just about rationalize any outcome you want but that simply doesn't mean its going to happen.

[JohnJohn]

Food for thought, when B1 comes out and is great and is able to pull 750/1600. Do you think its gonna be called gtx485, or gtx580?

[Chickenfeed]

If current power consumption and core rumours are true, I wouldn't expect a higher clocked revision on the current node. If the 480 is infact 480SPs wed likely see a GTX 480 Ultra or something of the sort. If it IS 512, I dont expect anything better until a shrink is possible.

[Piotrsama]

Some of the partner cards seem to hit 1150Mhz on air.

I think he is talking about the 5890.
Plus, saying that partners are hitting that speed on air, doesn't mean that's the stock speed (nor that it's stable).

[570091D]

If current power consumption and core rumours are true, I wouldn't expect a higher clocked revision on the current node. If the 480 is infact 480SPs wed likely see a GTX 480 Ultra or something of the sort. If it IS 512, I dont expect anything better until a shrink is possible.

maybe, i believe it all depends on the leakage, as amd has brought the leakage down on phenom2's the clock speeds have been rising with out a process shrink. we could see something similar with gf100, i believe that's what lordec911 has been hinting at with the Bx clues... ati admitted after it launched cypress that it had troubles with channel width and via failure, that could also have something to do with the delays and clock speeds for gf100. time will tell...

[LordEC911]

I think he is talking about the 5890.
Plus, saying that partners are hitting that speed on air, doesn't mean that's the stock speed (nor that it's stable).

He was talking about overclocking those custom cards.

maybe, i believe it all depends on the leakage, as amd has brought the leakage down on phenom2's the clock speeds have been rising with out a process shrink. we could see something similar with gf100, i believe that's what lordec911 has been hinting at with the Bx clues... ati admitted after it launched cypress that it had troubles with channel width and via failure, that could also have something to do with the delays and clock speeds for gf100. time will tell...

Yeah, I expect Bx to fix some of the leakage and probably raise clocks a bit.
The via problems were on RV740, due to problems with TSMC's process.

[Zed_X]

5890 has clocks 950/5,2 GHz

[570091D]

Yeah, I expect Bx to fix some of the leakage and probably raise clocks a bit.
The via problems were on RV740, due to problems with TSMC's process.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3740&p=9

so the via issue is fixed then?

[onethreehill]

One of the GTX 480 OC Editions consumes 305W
http://translate.google.com.tr/trans...tm&sl=tr&tl=en

[NaMcO]

I hope they know how to measure power as they definitely don't know how to measure memory. 1586MB anyone?

[eric66]

as far as i remember it is 1586

[Behemot]

as far as i remember it is 1586

12×128=1586 ?!? You have some strange math

[zerazax]

12×128=1586 ?!? You have some strange math

12 x 128

[GoldenTiger]

12 x 128

That would be 1536mb, not 1586 . Hence Behemot's "strange math" comment.