The GT300/Fermi Thread - Part 2!

[xdan]

Not sure from where is this quote...

"Enough with the technical gobbledygook. What will cards based on the GF100 perform like in games? Unfortunately, we don't really know. Nvidia's early benchmarks has it performing up to twice as fast as the Radeon HD 5870 (ATI's fastest single-chip DX11 graphics card) in some tests. Those are usually directed geometry-heavy benchmarks, though. In real games, it looks like performance will be anywhere from 20-50% faster, depending on the game and settings. Nvidia promises dramatically better performance with 8x anti-aliasing modes this time around, and a much lower performance hit over the 4x MSAA modes (which would put them nicely in line with ATI's latest GPUs). A new 32x coverage sampling anti-aliasing mode could be the new high quality mark, and might be fast enough to be truly useable, but we'll have to wait for our testing to bear that out."

[weston]

Fermi = 225W (or 275W)
Not the end of the world!!

Probably while using some special GPGPU applications only.

Despite all the nay-saying, it IS a FIXABLE problem. Just look at progress G92 made just by switching PCB, or reduced power on higher clocked HD4890.

Charlie is just being ultra-paranoid. Architecture is no more broken than it was in X2900XT - and despite power management and Anti-aliasing bugs, that card still got great performance in many games, and was the basis for HD48xx.

In the end, when it launches, (just as the HD5xxx) the hype will evaporate to reveal pretty typical average looking video cards with double horsepower of old generation.

If it comes out like the 2900XT that is horrible for the short term though. They were hyping it to be another 8800GTX, so if comes in at anything less than 30% over the 5870 it's a short term failure in my mind. In the long run, it's yet to be seen how the architecture will work, the speculation on the first series is already grasping at straws so how can you guess the long term viability of it?

I think the hype has gotten more and more negative the more we know about it, so a typical card, it is now. No typical card has gotten thousands of posts a month before it's launch.

[Dimitriman]

Whatever the true performance is today, you can be sure that a generation 2 fermi with 32/28 nm process will be rockin D11

[takamishanoku]

Less than 2 weeks! Either way we can all move on.

[Metroid]

No typical card has gotten thousands of posts a month before it's launch.

True and no typical card has ever got so many delays. Delays give anxiety.

[Tim]

True and no typical card has ever got so many delays. Delays give anxiety.

It's a flippin' videocard, not a baby.

[saaya]

So it only takes one day for TSMC to get the order, cook the wafer, get it cut, test it, send it to Nvidia to test, Nvidia to get the kits to AIBs, and AIBs to get the cards manufactured, packed and shipped?
Hmmm... I guess we dont have a facepalm smiley.

who said that? i talked about throughput, not latency... nvidia has A3 since when?
its not like they didnt have time to process the wafers, test, bin, build the cards etc
and like you said, they had quite some wafers prepared, so, assuming those werent broken beyond repair, that saved them some time as well...

Also, although we don't know the exact numbers of parked Ax wafers, those wafers have to last them until Bx is ready... which best case is end of Q2.

why? why cant they kick off new wafers? why couldnt they have done so already?

Not sure from where is this quote...

an anonymous quote of somebody promising awesome performance... how can you post something like this? at least post a link to where you found it to give it SOME credibility...

Whatever the true performance is today, you can be sure that a generation 2 fermi with 32/28 nm process will be rockin D11

why? even in 28nm gf100 will be a big chip and whos to say how good yields in 28nm are?

[Macadamia]

Fermi = 225W (or 275W)
Not the end of the world!!

Probably while using some special GPGPU applications only.

Despite all the nay-saying, it IS a FIXABLE problem. Just look at progress G92 made just by switching PCB, or reduced power on higher clocked HD4890.

Charlie is just being ultra-paranoid. Architecture is no more broken than it was in X2900XT - and despite power management and Anti-aliasing bugs, that card still got great performance in many games, and was the basis for HD48xx.

In the end, when it launches, (just as the HD5xxx) the hype will evaporate to reveal pretty typical average looking video cards with double horsepower of old generation.

that card still got great performance in many games

Problem was - nobody cared anymore. (2900XT)

Yet nVidia's biggest problem isn't just rushing Fermi out. The whole company seems to have a problem with management and execution not going in sync, and a lot of their grand ambitions in previous years although accomplished to an extent (Consumer CUDA apps etc) are now not really worked on anymore.

And how much power would GF104 take then? How fast will it perform relative to its power consumption? And if this 275W faceplant is true, how the heck are you still gonna get the midrange in laptops?

[mapel110]

And ATI is doing all right with releasing so many 40nm products while knowing that TSMC has limited capacity?! Also not the best choice.
They could have sold much more 55nm products at the end of last year, nvidia too.

eric66, ATI has the same problems with power consumption. They use the same process. You will see in 2 weeks.

[Macadamia]

eric66, ATI has the same problems with power consumption. They use the same process. You will see in 2 weeks.

I'm pretty SURE we know how little power the HD5800s use kthxbai.

[saaya]

And ATI is doing all right with releasing so many 40nm products while knowing that TSMC has limited capacity?! Also not the best choice.
They could have sold much more 55nm products at the end of last year, nvidia too.

eric66, ATI has the same problems with power consumption. They use the same process. You will see in 2 weeks.

why do we have to wait for 2 weeks to see atis power consumption problems?
yeah, ati suffers from tsmcs issues as well, but i dont think its that much...
tsmc issues are pushing ati to sell their parts at a premium instead of flooding the market with low priced parts like they are used to... thats actually a good thing, i dont think they intended this, but the capacity shortage is pushing their asp up which isnt a bad thing at all... and they still have great 55nm entr level and mainstream parts they can sell for super cheap...

just like nvidia still has G92 in 55nm which they can sell in large numbers for super cheap...

[Piotrsama]

Whatever the true performance is today, you can be sure that a generation 2 fermi with 32/28 nm process will be rockin D11

Too bad that's a 2011 process.
What about this year?

[weston]

why do we have to wait for 2 weeks to see atis power consumption problems?
yeah, ati suffers from tsmcs issues as well, but i dont think its that much...
tsmc issues are pushing ati to sell their parts at a premium instead of flooding the market with low priced parts like they are used to... thats actually a good thing, i dont think they intended this, but the capacity shortage is pushing their asp up which isnt a bad thing at all... and they still have great 55nm entr level and mainstream parts they can sell for super cheap...

just like nvidia still has G92 in 55nm which they can sell in large numbers for super cheap...

ATI has much better yields than (allegedly) nVidia is having with fermi, and as you said, the shortages are letting them sell for a higher price and better margins. The longer it takes fermi to reach store shelves, the longer ATI will keep it's prices inflated.

[josiahsuarez]

Too bad that's a 2011 process.
What about this year?

no way, TSMC definitely plans 28nm production this year

[-Sweeper_]

no way, TSMC definitely plans 28nm production this year

risk production, and I wouldn't trust TSCM roadmaps

[LordEC911]

why? why cant they kick off new wafers? why couldnt they have done so already?

Why would they waste more money on producing new Ax silicon when Bx is going to be replacing it down the road?

And ATI is doing all right with releasing so many 40nm products while knowing that TSMC has limited capacity?! Also not the best choice.
They could have sold much more 55nm products at the end of last year, nvidia too.

TSMC promised AMD/ATi a certain capacity and didn't come through... not sure how you can blame AMD/ATi on that.

no way, TSMC definitely plans 28nm production this year

Just like they projected ramping mass production of 40nm before the end of 2008?

[Your_Boss]

Fermi in steel cloths

Naked Fermi on a waterbed.

[Zed_X]

26th of march is not now is it ? hold ya breath...

26.3 (27.3) is not THAT "D" Day ... unfortunately

[ajaidev]

480: 298 Watt
470: 225 Watt

http://www.donanimhaber.com/GeForce_...timi-18638.htm


aaaaa if true.. The GTX 480 eats tooo much. If i recall correctly 5970 eats around 295 W and 5870 eats around 190 W.....

[Olivon]

26.3 (27.3) is not THAT "D" Day ... unfortunately

It's not the end of the NDA concerning Fermi GTX 480/470 ? Some reviews maybe, no ?

[FischOderAal]

And ATI is doing all right with releasing so many 40nm products while knowing that TSMC has limited capacity?! Also not the best choice.
They could have sold much more 55nm products at the end of last year, nvidia too.

Yeah, because developing a chip is what a few engineers do in their free time. AMD/NVIDIA designed RV870/GT300 to be a 40 nm part and TSMC didn't meet their claims. How can you blame the developer for that?

[Sn0wm@n]

Yeah, because developing a chip is what a few engineers do in their free time. AMD/NVIDIA designed RV870/GT300 to be a 40 nm part and TSMC didn't meet their claims. How can you blame the developer for that?

but the nvidia and ati engineer work in tandem with the guys at tsmc so if a problem arise they can fix it asap .... wich ati did .... but fermi is still nowhere in sight after 6 months ....



blame it on the engineer on nvidia i say .....

[spoof]

Have someone seen Cat 10.3 Beta Preview? If it's true, Fermi is dead before it's birth :lololo:

[Piotrsama]

Have someone seen Cat 10.3 Beta Preview? If it's true, Fermi is dead before it's birth :lololo:

A lot of people missed the point that the WSG article is a comparison between 9.11 and 10.3, no wonder the difference is high.

[saaya]

Why would they waste more money on producing new Ax silicon when Bx is going to be replacing it down the road?

your right, both nvidia and ati should stop all dx11 wafers cause they will be replaced with dx12 parts down the road anyways
come on... just cause they will have Bx doesnt mean they will stop Ax... what if Bx is just as bad as Ax, theny they waited for nothing...even if Bx solves their problems, they will need something until then, and even with 10% yields Ax is good enough for tesla cards...

Just like they projected ramping mass production of 40nm before the end of 2008?

yeah, exactly

but the nvidia and ati engineer work in tandem with the guys at tsmc so if a problem arise they can fix it asap .... wich ati did .... but fermi is still nowhere in sight after 6 months ....
blame it on the engineer on nvidia i say .....

well nvidia didnt have anything to work with... their first 40nm parts were tiny 10.1 parts that arrived waaaay late... ati had rv740 which was obviously a better test vehicle than nvidias first 40nm chips

rv740 is about the same size as rv840 and half the size of rv870, roughly...
nvidias first 40nm parts are smaller than G92, which is less than 1/4 of GF100...