The GT300/Fermi Thread - Part 2!

[Tenknics]

look up.^^

Saw that coming. Hahaha, you're hilarious. You need to read sir. Never insulted anyone. Said their arguement was a joke. Didn't put anyone down, insult anyone's character or make fun of them in anyway. I'm sure you'll reply to this saying "need to read" is an insult.

[zalbard]

An interesting observation btw.
You've all seen the thread about ASUS MARS based on ATI, right? Which has a huge cooling system and can draw up to 450W of power.
Why are they releasing this? I am sure no one doubts that Fermi will not be considerably faster than 5970 (and in fact will probably be slower).
Since it's not just ASUS who is going to release similar monster cards, it makes me think that dual Fermi is coming, sooner or later. It will be just as hot, huge, power hungry and expensive.
That's what this card is supposed to compete with.

[annihilat0r]

i think thats too pessimistic man...

if something is too pessimistic even for saaya... then there is a problem jk

I don't know why you guys are basically saying it would be impossible for them to even do 600mhz with 480SP's. There are yield issues and those issues are eliminated when you are considering launching only 5000 or so cards.

I am sure that if Nvidia was to go as low as 600MHz for 480SP Fermi's, they would be able to produce that in large quantities. But of course they won't because it has to be (surprise) good in performance also

I think it's Charlie's articles which make everyone try to put everything in as bad of a light as possible. While you're at it you might also try predicting that Fermi will not even do 500mhz, it will cost $13500 per card and Nvidia is going to go bankrupt because a plane carrying all their engineers and managers as well as millions of chips will crash and burn because Fermi is "huge, broken and unfixable".

[saaya]

An interesting observation btw.
You've all seen the thread about ASUS MARS based on ATI, right? Which has a huge cooling system and can draw up to 450W of power.
Why are they releasing this? I am sure no one doubts that Fermi will not be considerably faster than 5970 (and in fact will probably be slower).
Since it's not just ASUS who is going to release similar monster cards, it makes me think that dual Fermi is coming, sooner or later. It will be just as hot, huge, power hungry and expensive.
That's what this card is supposed to compete with.

well there hanst been any talk about dual fermi for a while...
originally it was supposed to come out "very soon" after the fermi single gpu launch... but then again, nvidia said fermi is launching "very soon" and that was almost half a year ago
i really wonder if a dual fermi card makes sense...
if the power consumption of the single cards is really that high, then a dualgpu fermi card would have to be clocked pretty low, which would make it not that fast... only 20% faster than a 5970, if even that...
thats assuming a single 480 is slightly slower than a 5970...

if something is too pessimistic even for saaya... then there is a problem jk

hahha, thats so true man
sigged

[highoctane]

While you're at it you might also try predicting that Fermi will not even do 500mhz, it will cost $13500 per card and Nvidia is going to go bankrupt because a plane carrying all their engineers and managers as well as millions of chips will crash and burn because Fermi is "huge, broken and unfixable".

I'm surprised the doom and gloom posse haven't already "predicted" this very dilemma, maybe they're not as good as they thought!

[annihilat0r]

hahha, thats so true man
sigged

Hey, since you post in pretty much every thread it'll be great to see my name on everywhere on XS now

I'm surprised the doom and gloom posse haven't already "predicted" this very dilemma, maybe they're not as good as they thought!

It's because there were never any rumors of such a plane crashing. But now I said it and everyone is going to bet on it! Nvidia will die!

[spoof]

An interesting observation btw.
You've all seen the thread about ASUS MARS based on ATI, right? Which has a huge cooling system and can draw up to 450W of power.
Why are they releasing this? I am sure no one doubts that Fermi will not be considerably faster than 5970 (and in fact will probably be slower).
Since it's not just ASUS who is going to release similar monster cards, it makes me think that dual Fermi is coming, sooner or later. It will be just as hot, huge, power hungry and expensive.
That's what this card is supposed to compete with.

The question should be - Why would NOT they release such video card? Since when, manufacturer are making cards, that should compete with another, that come from vendor? This is just silly observation. If there is going to be another card from ATi, it will come from them, not from anybody else.

[Sn0wm@n]

so is the march 26 another paper launch ???

[saaya]

so is the march 26 another paper launch ???

its the geforce based on fermi paper launch

the november paperlaunch was of fermi as an architecture by itself... with a hint towards gpgpu...

[Sentential]

so is the march 26 another paper launch ???

So help me god if this is a paper launch.... Really what I'm far more miffed at is the potential price tag; I find it unconscionable given the economic times we live in to drop $1200 on a pair of video cards. That's almost enough to cover my car payments for the entire span they have been playing hide and go yourself games with their marketing department since it was known that Fermi wasn't going so well.

These had better be AT or BELOW $400 or I will be moving to Hecatonderes in the fall and skipping nvidia indefinitely until they get their head on straight.

[Sn0wm@n]

its the geforce based on fermi paper launch

the november paperlaunch was of fermi as an architecture by itself... with a hint towards gpgpu...

fermi as a gpgpu + another paper launch about the card gefore still equal another paper launch... but they are trying to make themselves look good... their pr dept is good at that... cant blame em for trying...

So help me god if this is a paper launch.... Really what I'm far more miffed at is the potential price tag; I find it unconscionable given the economic times we live in to drop $1200 on a pair of video cards. That's almost enough to cover my car payments for the entire span they have been playing hide and go yourself games with their marketing department since it was known that Fermi wasn't going so well.

These had better be AT or BELOW $400 or I will be moving to Hecatonderes in the fall and skipping nvidia indefinitely until they get their head on straight.

they say the price tag will be close to 700$ but they didnt say newegg price... im sure some retailler will hike the price alot to make up for the lack of availability ..... countdown to 1200$ gtx480 on ebay

[LordEC911]

His post history doesn't indicate that. At least here at XS. What has he been wrong about so far? In any case there should be leaks galore within a week or two.

Like this?

At CES will NVIDIA to demonstrate new "(nV)Eyefinity" technology

Three displays with GeForce 3D Vision and Dark Void PhysX game - on ONE Fermi card! GeForce 3D Vision and Eyefinity together - interesting!

Source : NV invitation for that show

[-Sweeper_]

U$400 for the GTX470 and either U$500 or U$550 for the GTX480

that's my guess

[Sam_oslo]

$299 for GTX 470
$399 for GTX 480
$499 for double GF100

These prices wil become reality if ATi has an existing or new/refresh card to match/beat the Fermi-lineup at launch. Otherwise you can add about $100 to $200 from bottom to top, would I suggest.

[LordEC911]

1- Who said it was 100 percent accurate. You're making fun of words you yourself are putting in my mouth.
2- Who said Nvidia changed specs every day, I told of only 1 (reads "one") change of spec. Don't forget that the specs from long ago (750mhz and such) were only targets which were missed, and clock speed testing of the last revision (A3) was completed only recently. So anything you have heard before were only rumors / lies / targets.

As far as I know, Nvidia had completed testing the latest revision only a little time ago and decided upon 512SP / 650MHz. Before that there weren't any specs only targets and rumors. They have changed the spec ONCE and that is to 480SP / 700+MHz.

Surely those could be all wrong. But one change of spec isn't really an impossible thing to happen. Especially if you have missed your targets horribly and are trying to figure out what to do best with the parts you ended up with; and with the ultra high TDP and thermal death problems they have now.

Ummm... Nvidia is just passing that info on to AIBs. Nvidia knew what A3 was like in Jan.

U$400 for the GTX470 and either U$500 or U$550 for the GTX480

that's my guess

My $499 and $599 estimates were a little high and yours are a little low.

[Sn0wm@n]

stop expecting nvidia to give you fermi for free... it wont happpen... big dies cost alot to make so they cost alot to sell..... + delays = more cash invested in fixing initial problem this involve a bigger investment .... so a fermi at 700$ isnt out of range

[trinibwoy]

Like this?

The "ONE Fermi" bit? Yeah he was off there but still has a higher hit rate than anyone else on the board at this point.

[Blacky]

i think thats too pessimistic man...
think about it, even a 600mhz 480sp part will be a double gtx280... its not going to be slow... it will be less than nvidia hoped for and less than some expect, but it will be able to compete with 5870 and 5970... its not like nvidia will lose the performance battle... if anything it will be a draw with both ati and nvidia winning some here and some there...

cancelling fermi would not make sense... you wouldnt be able to release a new gpu faster by cancelling fermi, you would just lose all the money you invested in it and let ati reign free... im sure they are focussing a lot on their next gen project right now, but fermi wont be cancelled...
performance isnt the problem to begin with, its cost...
and nvidia has two good chances to improve on that, they can improve 40nm yields with a new stepping which they are already working on, and there is 28nm...

those are both risky though... their main problem is cost, and the only safe way to improve on that is cutting fermi down... i really hope they will get a cut down fermi out asap... its good for nvidia, and its good for us... there wont be notable price impacts from a 470 and 480 in low quantities... its even possible that prices dont change at all after fermi launches... : /
no price drops = hw industry slows down even more, consoles eat more market share = worse gaming overall... cause lets face it, consoles CANT replace pcs when it comes to gaming...

Idk I just have the feeling Fermi is the new R600...even if is faster than GT200 products won't be offering the true performance we expected, and knowing nvidia the prices are going to be sky-high, is not worth releasing a product that would run 10-20 fps faster than competition (lets say GTX480 vs 5870) for $300 more...or yet slower than competition offerings (GTX480 vs 5970) for same price or even more expensive...ending up being hotter and a lot more demanding on watts... idk I just lost hope on nvidia in this generation...I guess is all up on nvidias driver team (they are way much better than ATi by the way) to make Fermi "shine"

[570091D]

Idk I just have the feeling Fermi is the new R600...even if is faster than GT200 products won't be offering the true performance we expected, and knowing nvidia the prices are going to be sky-high, is not worth releasing a product that would run 10-20 fps faster than competition (lets say GTX480 vs 5870) for $300 more...or yet slower than competition offerings (GTX480 vs 5970) for same price or even more expensive...ending up being hotter and a lot more demanding on watts... idk I just lost hope on nvidia in this generation...I guess is all up on nvidias driver team (they are way much better than ATi by the way) to make Fermi "shine"

there's A LOT of assumptions in there... all of which contradict posts from people with a good track record on these things...

what if the gtx480 is "only" 10-20fps faster than the 5870 and $100 more explensive?

[LordEC911]

The "ONE Fermi" bit? Yeah he was off there but still has a higher hit rate than anyone else on the board at this point.

neliz doesn't count?

[Blacky]

there's A LOT of assumptions in there... all of which contradict posts from people with a good track record on these things...

what if the gtx480 is "only" 10-20fps faster than the 5870 and $100 more explensive?

still, would be hotter (which could mean more failures) and consumes even more... so theres 2 cons vs 1 pro :/ and even if it has more fps, now days any performance hardware level is overkill now days (thanks to consoles)... so I don't think someone with a ATi 5000 has the need to jump the bandwagon even if runs 30+ fps while gaming 80-100 fps in most games...as long there no PC exclusives (like crysis was) theres no need for more powerful hardware atm, at least for gaming...

[570091D]

still, would be hotter (which could mean more failures) and consumes even more... so theres 2 cons vs 1 pro :/ and even if it has more fps, now days any performance hardware level is overkill now days (thanks to consoles)... so I don't think someone with a ATi 5000 has the need to jump the bandwagon even if runs 30+ fps while gaming 80-100 fps in most games...as long there no PC exclusives (like crysis was) theres no need for more powerful hardware atm, at least for gaming...

so.... the hd5xxx series is useless too then?

how exactly does hotter = fail? the i7 920 is "hotter" than a q9650, does it then have higher failure rates? also, please enlighten all of us on what exactly the power consuption and thermals for the gtx4xx cards will be.

[takamishanoku]

so.... the hd5xxx series is useless too then?

Not useless but rather unnecessary. The thing was in the past if the game wasn't demanding then you could always argue that if you wanted to go a higher res or AA, etc you need the power. Now 30" is probably as big as you would want a computer screen to be, so the res has hit a ceiling (hence why eyefinity which is cool but i know i wouldn't play with bezels). Coupled with console ports then really any decent card from last gen would be enough.

[Blacky]

so.... the hd5xxx series is useless too then?

how exactly does hotter = fail? the i7 920 is "hotter" than a q9650, does it then have higher failure rates? also, please enlighten all of us on what exactly the power consuption and thermals for the gtx4xx cards will be.

As long we keep getting crap ports (again for gaming), yes, I had 285's on 3-way and temps were awful in gaming session's I had to put it at 100% to have <85, I sold it and got myself an 5870 which is enough for anything right now even for eyefinity and for power consumption is probably is not going to be less than ATi 5000 thats for sure everyone knows that already I guess...

[Chickenfeed]

As long we keep getting crap ports (again for gaming), yes, I had 285's on 3-way and temps were awful in gaming session's I had to put it at 100% to have <85, I sold it and got myself an 5870 which is enough for anything right now even for eyefinity and for power consumption is probably is not going to be less than ATi 5000 thats for sure everyone knows that already I guess...

I don't fully agree here. This is a very subjective thing to say as it depends on your framerate demands, image quality settings and last but not surely not least, resolution. At 1920x1200, I find myself wanting more than what a single 5870 can offer (I like to have above 60fps at all times if possible with 4x AA / 16AF for single player games, and even more online ; again subjective and NO a 5870 cannot do this let alone a 5970 in some cases ). If a GTX 480 can meet that demand, I am all for it ( given a reasonable cooling solution ) I'd sooner pay $700 for a single card that is 10-15% slower than a 5970 but that is just me. Multi gpu solutions should be a last resort in my opinion ( an educated opinion at that as I've personally used 5 different multi gpu configs / cards in the past few years ; I'm speaking of the pitfuls and issues that have always plauged these solutions ; driver problems, power usage , noise, heat, low performance increase relative to price )