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Thread: Looking forward to 6 core cpu's

  1. #26
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    Olie is dead on.
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  2. #27
    Xtreme Addict Oliverda's Avatar
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    The roadmap on the top is the genuine roadmap from the AMD.

    I think that the Zosma = Thuban with 2 disabled cores.
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  3. #28
    Xtreme Addict Glow9's Avatar
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    I know I am, after a bazillion flip flops with upgrade ideas I settled to wait for a AMD six core upgrade. Will mobos for them have pci-e 3.0?
    I figure since I can still play every game I want with a e4300 and a 8800GTS Why be in any rush to upgrade. I think it will be fun to skip from 2 cores to 6. When it comes down to it, the video card is doing most of the work in gaming anyways. So cheapest 6 core cpu w/ a board with pci-e 3.0 is what I'm gonna grab then OC it. I like doing things old school. Barton 2500+ <3

  4. #29
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    nice to see Oliverda, thx !
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  5. #30
    Xtreme Addict Oliverda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glow9 View Post
    I know I am, after a bazillion flip flops with upgrade ideas I settled to wait for a AMD six core upgrade. Will mobos for them have pci-e 3.0?
    I figure since I can still play every game I want with a e4300 and a 8800GTS Why be in any rush to upgrade. I think it will be fun to skip from 2 cores to 6. When it comes down to it, the video card is doing most of the work in gaming anyways. So cheapest 6 core cpu w/ a board with pci-e 3.0 is what I'm gonna grab then OC it. I like doing things old school. Barton 2500+ <3
    No. PCI-E 3.0 supported boards (and cards) will only be released sometime in 2011.
    -

  6. #31
    Xtreme Mentor Nedjo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliverda View Post
    You're right...at last. The Istanbul is really not a dekstop only CPU. The Thuban will be an AM3 packaged Istanbul with the latest stepping (probably D2). That's all. You better to beleive it now otherwise you'll be disappointed later.
    good! the more you downplay it the more you'll be surprised
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  7. #32
    Xtreme Mentor Nedjo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glow9 View Post
    I know I am, after a bazillion flip flops with upgrade ideas I settled to wait for a AMD six core upgrade.
    you're practically made yourself the legend of the forum when it comes to "flip flop" upgrade ideas
    Will mobos for them have pci-e 3.0?
    is 3.0 standard finalized??
    I figure since I can still play every game I want with a e4300 and a 8800GTS Why be in any rush to upgrade.
    in your case for the sake of rush for just an ide of upgrade
    I think it will be fun to skip from 2 cores to 6.
    I wouldn't be surprised if you skip Thuban ind continue to await for Zambezi

    When it comes down to it, the video card is doing most of the work in gaming anyways.
    couldn't agree more!
    So cheapest 6 core cpu w/ a board with pci-e 3.0 is what I'm gonna grab then OC it. I like doing things old school. Barton 2500+ <3
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  8. #33
    Xtreme Addict Oliverda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nedjo View Post
    good! the more you downplay it the more you'll be surprised
    I'm too old to beleive in the fairy tales.

    AMD is developing two new architectures. Fusion and Bulldozer (LIano and Orochi). I think that they do not have enough resources to develop a third one.

    I've just find a nice review: link


    ...is 3.0 standard finalized??
    Unfortunately still has not finalized: link
    Last edited by Oliverda; 01-21-2010 at 12:00 PM.
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  9. #34
    Xtreme Addict Glow9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nedjo View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised if you skip Thuban ind continue to await for Zambezi
    What's the real difference? If it means waiting for pci-e 3.0 I will end up waiting. I don't want to have the whole, buy a 1.1 board then 2.0 comes out again cpl months later.

  10. #35
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    I look forward to Bulldozer in 2011. 32nm and 8 cores sounds like heaven.
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    I want to know just one thing : will there be a Bulldozer compatible with socket AM3; will the Leo platform support BD?

    I don't want performance estimates, I don't want comparisons of the BD core to UltraSPARC t1, and I don't want predictions on AMD and GF respective futures.

  12. #37
    Xtreme Member Lokinhow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatteryOperated View Post
    will there be a Bulldozer compatible with socket AM3



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    Quote Originally Posted by Glow9 View Post
    What's the real difference? If it means waiting for pci-e 3.0 I will end up waiting. I don't want to have the whole, buy a 1.1 board then 2.0 comes out again cpl months later.
    Just curious, but what does PCI-e 3.0 do that is different? I don't have a clue. If it is just more bandwidth, a 5870 hardly uses 8x bandwidth on 2.0.
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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliverda View Post
    Maybe you haven't noticed the difference between the 258mm2 and 346mm2 sizes.
    I wrote them so probably I did. What you seem to ignore is the quite huge price difference what you could sell these for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oliverda View Post
    ~90nm2 is a pretty big difference in the semiconductor manufacturing and I haven't mentioned the yield rate which is very important.
    Relative to the size not that big difference, and 5 cores could be sold as well and for more than deneb. So your economic reason is shot down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oliverda View Post
    Anyway the Deneb is a whole different story. They should have to cover the market with cheaper Deneb based CPUs.
    With AMD's low margins, cheap Denebs don't sound me such a good idea maybe you haven't noticed Deneb's die size. Let's really leave this economic reason it's only getting worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oliverda View Post
    IMHO now they can sell many Istanbul CPUs (more than Shanghai) so they don't need to hurry to sell these dies cheaper in the desktop segment.
    So let's sell a slightly smaller Deneb for less than half the price, instead of making more 6 cores and sell them for twice as much. They could have better margins with the Thuban with the prices you guesstimated. Simply put they could make more money by selling these than what they make on deneb.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oliverda View Post
    I sadly see that you couldn't understand my interpretation. The desktop market does not need 6 core cpu's yet. They don't have to hurry at all.
    It is hard to interpret what you wrote as what you try to make it sound now.
    Let me copy it here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Oliverda View Post
    The other reason is that the AMD want to launch a complete new platform (Leo) and not only a CPU.

    Six-core CPU + 890 series chipset + 5800 series VGA.
    If that's really what you really meant I doubt anyone got what you were trying to say, this must make you even more sad.

    But I agree with your new idea.
    The general desktop doesn't need it, but it shouldn't stop AMD from selling it for extra profit. They didn't care much about the market's needs when they tried to sell slow native quads instead of fast native duals. Then I remember AMD was selling FX processors long time ago over a 1000$, that market must have needed those more than these Thubans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oliverda View Post
    You can't see through this whole platform question. You can buy the platform in parts you don't have to buy it in a complete system.

    The platforms demonstrate the company's top products in a whole unit. It has an important marketing part.
    What you seem to forget you used the platform as reason why didn't AMD launch Istanbul 9 months ago on the desktop.
    The marketing reason doesn't really makes sense again, couldn't they use an older processor in the marketing, they have to delay it's launch 9 months to align it with the new motherboards ?
    Strangely the last september launched 5800 gpus seem to fit into the platform. Seems to me the platform reasoning doesn't make sense either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oliverda View Post
    What kind of tweaking are you talking about? The G34 contains two dies in one package while the C32 contains only one from exactly the same die.
    I am aware of that. Apparently you are sure that the IMC can't take adjustments to work more effectively in that configuration.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oliverda View Post
    You're right...at last. The Istanbul is really not a dekstop only CPU. The Thuban will be an AM3 packaged Istanbul with the latest stepping (probably D2). That's all. You better to beleive it now otherwise you'll be disappointed later.
    It doesn't make sense and neither your simple economic reason or the platform marketing backs it up.

    If it's low clockspeed (compared to deneb) what caused they delay I would say possible.
    Now with Thuban's lauch date so close to the new server processor's launch I find it more likely thuban is based on those, than something they launched last year.
    The reason why I think Thuban wasn't launched last year because it didn't perform well enough against products already on the market and they were working on tweaking the 6 core die for the G34 and C32.

    Your roadmap backs it up for me. If no improvements were made on the 6 core die why would they release a cut down version on the desktop ?
    It should offer something what makes it superior to Deneb.

    BTW it can't disappoint me, after Bulldozer's 2 year delay AMD won't make me believe their roadmaps until they start to deliver on time for a while.
    Thuban is just something to have fun with until sandy and bulldozer, more interesting than socket 1156 regardless of it's performance, if Deneb worth it more that's what I am going to keep.

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    That is an A+ arrow pointing job.

  16. #41
    Xtreme Addict Glow9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tool_462 View Post
    Just curious, but what does PCI-e 3.0 do that is different? I don't have a clue. If it is just more bandwidth, a 5870 hardly uses 8x bandwidth on 2.0.
    people say that about 1.1 and pci-e 2.0. If I can stretch this build out nicely as I have I think I'll wait to get the most bandwidth for the money since a 6core cpu will last me even longer than this e4300

  17. #42
    Diablo 3! Who's Excited? [XC] gomeler's Avatar
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    Bulldozer needs to be kicked through the pipeline faster. Tired of years of Intel domination on top.. Deneb had a short glimmer of limelight and then was buried by D0 Bloomfield Come on Bulldozer, make Westmere look silly

  18. #43
    Xtreme Addict Oliverda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuroimaho View Post
    I wrote them so probably I did. What you seem to ignore is the quite huge price difference what you could sell these for.



    Relative to the size not that big difference, and 5 cores could be sold as well and for more than deneb. So your economic reason is shot down.



    With AMD's low margins, cheap Denebs don't sound me such a good idea maybe you haven't noticed Deneb's die size. Let's really leave this economic reason it's only getting worse.



    So let's sell a slightly smaller Deneb for less than half the price, instead of making more 6 cores and sell them for twice as much. They could have better margins with the Thuban with the prices you guesstimated. Simply put they could make more money by selling these than what they make on deneb.



    It is hard to interpret what you wrote as what you try to make it sound now.
    Let me copy it here:



    If that's really what you really meant I doubt anyone got what you were trying to say, this must make you even more sad.

    But I agree with your new idea.
    The general desktop doesn't need it, but it shouldn't stop AMD from selling it for extra profit. They didn't care much about the market's needs when they tried to sell slow native quads instead of fast native duals. Then I remember AMD was selling FX processors long time ago over a 1000$, that market must have needed those more than these Thubans.



    What you seem to forget you used the platform as reason why didn't AMD launch Istanbul 9 months ago on the desktop.
    The marketing reason doesn't really makes sense again, couldn't they use an older processor in the marketing, they have to delay it's launch 9 months to align it with the new motherboards ?
    Strangely the last september launched 5800 gpus seem to fit into the platform. Seems to me the platform reasoning doesn't make sense either.



    I am aware of that. Apparently you are sure that the IMC can't take adjustments to work more effectively in that configuration.



    It doesn't make sense and neither your simple economic reason or the platform marketing backs it up.

    If it's low clockspeed (compared to deneb) what caused they delay I would say possible.
    Now with Thuban's lauch date so close to the new server processor's launch I find it more likely thuban is based on those, than something they launched last year.
    The reason why I think Thuban wasn't launched last year because it didn't perform well enough against products already on the market and they were working on tweaking the 6 core die for the G34 and C32.

    Your roadmap backs it up for me. If no improvements were made on the 6 core die why would they release a cut down version on the desktop ?
    It should offer something what makes it superior to Deneb.

    BTW it can't disappoint me, after Bulldozer's 2 year delay AMD won't make me believe their roadmaps until they start to deliver on time for a while.
    Thuban is just something to have fun with until sandy and bulldozer, more interesting than socket 1156 regardless of it's performance, if Deneb worth it more that's what I am going to keep.



    Sorry but I got tired about your ideas. The time will confirm everything.
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  19. #44
    Xtreme Mentor Nedjo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliverda View Post
    I'm too old to believe in the fairy tales.
    sometimes good thing about being old is having more wisdom that tells you to not believe in your own judgments that are based on lack of any solid info
    AMD is developing two new architectures. Fusion and Bulldozer (LIano and Orochi). I think that they do not have enough resources to develop a third one.
    well isn't that why we all love AMD - it never stops beating odds and surprising us
    I've just find a nice review: link
    hehe, Ilya's work... it actually reminded me on the first "preview" of Athlon64 that XBL done with ES of K8 - it showed nothing, and totally misguided people!
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  20. #45
    Xtreme Addict Oliverda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nedjo View Post
    sometimes good thing about being old is having more wisdom that tells you to not believe in your own judgments that are based on lack of any solid info
    These "judgments" are based on simple facts.

    well isn't that why we all love AMD - it never stops beating odds and surprising us
    AMD is not equal with dreamworld. I understand that you would like to beleive in some sort of surprise or miracle but unfortunately their possibilities are very limited.

    The surprise will be the Fusion and the Bulldozer...hopefully.
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  21. #46
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    Guys, read between lines eh? Few fellow forum users are using those 6 core babes. Thats for sure. Not that i have one, id like to have one lol. Been waiting this 6 core lauch so i can buy one.
    I think first 6 cores has gone on engineers when server 6 cores were lauched. But i think this time AMD has very strict NDA to keep cpu info away long as possible from public.
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  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliverda View Post
    These "judgments" are based on simple facts.



    AMD is not equal with dreamworld. I understand that you would like to beleive in some sort of surprise or miracle but unfortunately their possibilities are very limited.

    The surprise will be the Fusion and the Bulldozer...hopefully.
    I am afraid hope is an indulgence many people can no longer afford.

    Every product and subsequent performance prediction beginning with RDRAM to 10ghz Pentium 4, to Fermi, to eVga's wank fest of dual socket1366 board, to AMD Bulldozer, to Playstation 3 CELL processor, to Blizzard's Diablo3 and Starcraft 2... we consumers, especially those of us on XS.com forums want good products, we want to see companies succeed in brgining excellent product to market, but right now, there is a public relations and goodwill deficit deeper and wider then the black hole Sarah Palin calls her brain.
    Last edited by BatteryOperated; 01-22-2010 at 03:49 AM.

  23. #48
    Xtreme Mentor Nedjo's Avatar
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    die sizes:

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  24. #49
    Live Long And Overclock perkam's Avatar
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    There is no need for AMD to bring Bulldozer forward. However, most members will not see the rationale for this because they have yet to see the gains on existing six-core and 12-core architectures when coupled with the bandwith of DDR3 memory.

    Perkam

  25. #50
    I am Xtreme FlanK3r's Avatar
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    NEdjo: but Thuban is a bit diferent die, can be maybe a bit smaller size?
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