News Section

[stangracin3]

this site is dying like Dale in the green mile. A long, slow, firey, painful death. if your gonna kill it at least make the sponge wet and kill it fast.

from what ive seen most of the people that are flaming each other have atleast 1000 posts. so why dont we make the rule 25000 posts. oh because then only saaya and movieman would be able to post in it.

[Vapor]

The system I've put in definitely needs some tweaks...

Big things on the to-do list:
Paid members need to be fixed (I thought it was but Bodkin was having problems?...if that's the case, then XC might be 'broken' too)
Some sort of way to allow in benevolent low-activity guys.

Big objectives of the limitation:
It seems to me that the people who cause problems in the News section are those that take up residence in the News section. They just live there and over time they get too comfortable and just have at it freely. This is why we saw a recurrence of issues even after we clamped down hard a couple months ago and removed (almost) everyone involved. Requiring that people have a lot of non-News activity filters out people are here for only for the News 'discussion' and will hopefully pique their interest in some other section such that they no longer spend all their XS time in News.

As it is right now, everyone can still read. 500+/XC/XIP/Staff/Donators all can post. Updates will come I'm sure. If nothing else, I like thebluemeanie01's idea for sure A time-based allowance is also something I like the proposition of

[Don_Dan]

I'm glad you're listening to what the members have to contribute concerning this matter. On a sidenote, I saw the Fermi thread before it was cleaned, and it WAS a real mess.
I'm sure we'll find a solution soon, but thebluemeanie1's idea is not the way to go in my opinion, allowing users to post but not to reply to their own threads.
If I recall correctly there was something like a News team some time ago, maybe this should be revived with some of the biggest contributors of the News section, so they can post topics and everyone else can reply but not open new topics. ( Of course only those members should be eligible for this task that were not involved in any flamewars. ) That way we'd at least have a way to avoid having two or more threads about the same topic. Then give them some modding rights for the News section, give out the doctrine to remove access to News section for any infractions and you're set. If a member has a worthy news he could still PM a member of the News team and he can put it up for him. But please stop banning all those long-term members.

Just my two cents.

[Vapor]

Clarification on how I interpreted thebluemeanie01's idea: they can contribute to their own thread (why would they want their own thread to devolve and get locked?) but not to other threads (so as they can't crap other threads). This could be just one of a few possible allowances to open up

I've proposed a few more ideas in the Mod Lounge. I'm looking forward to getting this tweaked so that it provides the same core benefits but doesn't harm the benevolent low-activity members

[Don_Dan]

Clarification on how I interpreted thebluemeanie01's idea: they can contribute to their own thread (why would they want their own thread to devolve and get locked?) but not to other threads (so as they can't crap other threads). This could be just one of a few possible allowances to open up

Okay, I interpreted his idea a bit different, I thought they could only post the opening post, and then they wouldn't be allowed to post any more, which would be rather senseless imho.

Thanks for the fast reply, keep us posted on what will be changed! The status quo can only be a short-term fix for this issue.

[AliG]

How about a 1 ban allowance policy? Meaning that first offense is a 1 week ban, second offense is permanent? Seems kinda harsh for a no warning perma-ban from News (which is my favorite section).

I agree that things had gotten out of hand, but it seems to have settled down a bit. Perhaps that's just what I've seen because guys like Dave had done a very thorough job of cleaning it up, but I think this taking it a bit extreme. At the very least could this policy be reversed in the future when things have completely cooled off? I'm fairly certain many people agree with me on the value of the News section; placing such a high minimum post count could either scare away potential smart new posters or cause them to spam the forums to get in.

[Bodkin]

Cheers for being willing to tweak the system a bit vapour, nice to see the admins and mods really care about xs

[prava]

I would like to make a few suggestions:

a) You have to show people where is that line. Baning somebody and then removing the posts that caused that ban is useless as people will not know what happened. If, instead of erasing them you keep those that meant the ban and edit them puting a huge disclaimer would be better: everybody would know how that user got banned and why, so there would not be doubts about what happened and all the other ones could learn something, which is good.

b) Try to stop flaimbaits as soon as possible. If you cut the flame in half, punish the members and clean it up rather quick, people will see that arguing that hard is pointless as nobody will be able to read them (you know, successful troll is successful) nor take positions and people will be concerned about their own account status and the topic will be (most of the times) saved and back ontopic.

c) In the end, I'm one of those who thinks that admins are there to show the stick to the dogs and let them know how much it hurts...not to hide it as much as possible just to make dogs lazy and then hit'em in the mouth... the objective should be to have a better community, not to punish people. Not saying it doesn't have to be done when needed, but ONLY when needed.

Just my 2 cents.

As it is right now, everyone can still read. 500+/XC/XIP/Staff/Donators all can post.

You mean regarding the News section only, right?

[LordEC911]

Maybe a sponsor ship program for the low posting peeps?
Would be hard to keep track of though...

I still think there should be a lower post count requirement, 200-250, and/or a minimum length of time 1 year?

Feels wrong to punish lurkers that are here soaking up info and maybe only comment a few times a month on threads just because they may not have anything to add to the discussion.

There are other forums where I do the above, I lurk there almost every day and have been a member for 4-5 years but have less than 200 posts.

[god_43]

i come here for the new section, for the debate and exchange of idea's, if i can't do that - i am not going to "post spam" my way to 500, i will simply have no need for XS. there are other sites...sure they are not as engaging as XS, but over time i am sure i will adapt.

[shoota]

i'm just gonna throw my name in the hat of people that read the news section and like to post occasionally but won't be able to with the 500 post limit. surely there can be a lesser limit for people who have been here a long time..

[Spectrobozo]

I post occasionally in the news section, but I tried today and....
quite a bad way to try to keep things under control...

I'm registered in this forum for 6 years... I think I never did anything wrong, but I cannot post a single post in the news section.....

[Reznik Akime]

I used to love these forums but recent changes have begun to irk me. Indeed, it's privately owned but things are just starting to seem too uptight. It's not the family it used to be. The bigger the family, the more likely you're going to have riffraff. Granted it's grown quite a bit since I've registered, I can't think of a time I've went a week without at least visiting this forum once until recently. And when donations came up, I didn't hesitate to donate. But the ways that some of the problems are being handled haven't be the most wise. 500 posts is quite a bit and the news is this forum's biggest draw for most people. Muting people who have opinions is a good way to turn them away. People have evolved to express and discuss. Isn't discussion what the point of these boards are? The way things have changed has made me feel differently about these forums. Furthermore knowing that Chilly owns part of these forums still after what he did has further influenced me and I'm afraid that I won't be donating again when my subscription soon runs out. I won't donate to a cause I don't agree with.

[ShannonR]

i made a thread in the news section now i cant even post in it?

[Boissez]

The system I've put in definitely needs some tweaks...

Big things on the to-do list:
Paid members need to be fixed (I thought it was but Bodkin was having problems?...if that's the case, then XC might be 'broken' too)
Some sort of way to allow in benevolent low-activity guys.

Big objectives of the limitation:
It seems to me that the people who cause problems in the News section are those that take up residence in the News section. They just live there and over time they get too comfortable and just have at it freely. This is why we saw a recurrence of issues even after we clamped down hard a couple months ago and removed (almost) everyone involved. Requiring that people have a lot of non-News activity filters out people are here for only for the News 'discussion' and will hopefully pique their interest in some other section such that they no longer spend all their XS time in News.

As it is right now, everyone can still read. 500+/XC/XIP/Staff/Donators all can post. Updates will come I'm sure. If nothing else, I like thebluemeanie01's idea for sure A time-based allowance is also something I like the proposition of

May I suggest softer posting restrictions such as for instance a limited number of posts/week. 3 benefits the way I see it:

1. You won't have to mute the occasional user
2. With for instance 5 allowed posts/week users will have to think twice before they post - which is ultimately the behavior the news section needs
3. Flamefests and heated arguments won't be able to excalate since after 5 posts you're gone...

[trinibwoy]

^ That's a great idea.

[Chrono Detector]

Personally I think this "you need a minimum of 500 posts" to post in the News section is a bit unfair. Like others said, I think 100 posts should do. I loved the News section and it really sucks I cannot post there.

[Farinorco]

Uhm, I didn't want to take part because of various reasons (being one of the affected people the main one of course), but oh well... I can't stay away.

I would like to point several reasons why I think this is absolutely unfortunate.

1st: It has been said that some people "live" in the news forums. I'm one of them. The news forum of XS is great to comment and debate with others about our hobby. Or should I say it was? People like me, if not allowed to post in the news forums, are never going to post 500 messages, so are never going to be allowed to write. Oh, yeah, I also look sometimes the Watercooling forum, and read other forums (but without posting, most of the times). But no way I can reach 500 post without starting to spam the other forums. I won't, that's not my style, and I have better things to do with my time.

So, if you really think that people like me (who is mainly interested in the news section), are the problem why the News sections is becoming messy, you will do a great work with this, because it's the perfect trap for us: not to allow us to write until we have written a lot, which we can't do until we have written a lot, it's kind of a paradoxical trap that only leave us one possibility: to leave.

2nd: People who really want to write in that section, and with enough time to do it, will be encouraged to write the more posts the better on other sections, regardless of having anything to say. I'm not talking about spamming, that can be avoided by moderators, but I, for example, think that I should only write something when I have something to say, or think twice before writing anything. I take a good amount of time with every post, thinking about what, how and when should I write. If I want to recover my "privilege" to write on my favourite section, I shouldn't do so, should I?

I don't think that minimum post count policies translate into a quality increase in any forum. Probably on the contrary: you're asking to post quantity to gain your full access privileges.

3rd: I don't think that general, global punishments (because that is what it is for everybody who was already registered at the forum before this new rules were created, a ban because they -we...- have not written enough posts in certain time...) with really abstract criteria are a solution for anything. I see them more like a desperate try when a true solution doesn't appear, and usually they do more harm than good.

I don't know if I am one of the people seen as "guilty" of the news forums problems (I really hope not, really!), but I am sure that there's a lot of people that is going to be punished that is not. Are the benefits worth it?

So, summarizing:

I understand that this is a private forum, and their propietaries can do with it what they want. But as I understand it, they want to do it because they want to increase the quality of their forum, not to piss anyone off. So what I'm trying to ask is: is really THIS what you want? Because you're going to piss a lot of people off with this, and it's probable that the measure isn't so good in the end. And maybe going back at a later time, when some people has been forced to leave the forum, it's a bit too late...

[Dante80]

I was trying to reply in a thread in the news section and then I saw I couldn't. I believe that the blanket 500posts prerequisite is both inefficient and penalizing casual members in our forums. Hell, I've been a lurker here for more time than many 500post+ accounts have been members, and I feel a little disappointed with the change regarding posting limits.

My take on this.

If you have problems with specific members abusing the news section to start flame wars, or to post not newsworthy/reduntant articles, deny them access to the subforum via a member privilege vb add on, or a new member category.

If you have problems with members acting weird or hostile in the news section, then penalize them for said behavior. Not only you will stem the tide, you will provide an example to the rest userbase regarding code of conduct in the specific forum.

If you have problems with members abusing the new thread button to post irrelevant or redundant threads, establish a post limit for making new threads, not for simply posting in existing ones.

If you still want to impose a post limit for access to the sub-forum (to stop flame/double accounts from getting there) then do impose a limit. But 500 posts is IMO ridiculous. What you need is a limit that will stop sole-purpose accounts from posting, while making it difficult for them to spam other sections to get the post-count needed to participate. Having encountered as an administrator the problem myself, I found out that a ~50 post-count limit is enough to stop both from happening...

my 2cents, cheers.

[Olivon]

So a 500+ posts fanboy can post on Newz Section and spread flames and, on the other hand, people like Hans de Vries who puts real enlightments on it can't do anymore ?

Quantity not means quality. Seems unfair ...

[Behemot]

...

Well said.

As Boissez said, maximal allowed amount of posts per week is the way to go I think. Maybe it don't have to be applied for whole News section, what about just 3-4 posts per thread a day? This would stop flamming I'd say, without ruining normall discussion.

[AliG]

So a 500+ posts fanboy can post on Newz Section and spread flames and, on the other hand, people like Hans de Vries who puts real enlightments on it can't do anymore ?

Quantity not means quality. Seems unfair ...

That's an excellent point. I had completely forgotten about Hans, people like him definitely should not be barred from the News section (though I do feel he is quite an exception in that most people of his stature have plenty of posts).

[radaja]

May I suggest softer posting restrictions such as for instance a limited number of posts/week. 3 benefits the way I see it:

1. You won't have to mute the occasional user
2. With for instance 5 allowed posts/week users will have to think twice before they post - which is ultimately the behavior the news section needs
3. Flamefests and heated arguments won't be able to excalate since after 5 posts you're gone...

i dont post in the news section much but,i love to read it.except when threads turn into wars.that being said i think Boissez has a great idea here.this would stop the wars before they could even start.and would allow people like hans to be able to post his insights.
or try post limits for individual threads,2 post per thread each day.

[Don_Dan]

Imposing a posts per day limit for the News section might indeed be the way to go, that gives everybody the chance to cool down.
3 posts a day is too few to be honest, I wouldn't care, I rarely post in the News section, but other members who are contributing a lot could be very limited. 3 posts per thread / day sounds a lot better.

[Neuromancer]

Pretty sure this will end up just meaning all the discussion about news will take place in the general forums instead of the news forum