AMD cuts to the core with 'Bulldozer' Opterons

[BatteryOperated]

Would definitely be nice for AMD's gross margins. More money for R&D.

Talk a lot less and produce high peformance product a whole lot more, profit margins would improve. Perhaps nVidia could take this advice to heart...

[god_43]

Talk a lot less and produce high peformance product a whole lot more, profit margins would improve. Perhaps nVidia could take this advice to heart...

i think that we all know - just because a product is better does not mean it will sell better. especially when it is covered by the shadow of more powerful entities (cough cough intel cough).



lol omg there are more emoticons!!

[Chumbucket843]

Actually I think that is BD's biggest advantage. Because of the shared Front-End, it could be more sophisticated and complex than usual.

That will yield in a better utilization of the back-end.

So far - with the litte available information - the design looks quite stream-lined to me, I like it. It looks efficient and fast. I just wonder how much of the "information" will be true in the end.

this means lower clockspeed and higher latency which is bad for floating point and simd which is the wrong direction.

Talk a lot less and produce high peformance product a whole lot more, profit margins would improve. Perhaps nVidia could take this advice to heart...

if you read quarterly reports you will see R&D for nvidia is similar to ati, dont really see how that's relevant to this thread though. amd is out spent in r&d by about 4x by intel but a lot of that could be manufacturing process.

[BatteryOperated]

this means lower clockspeed and higher latency which is bad for floating point and simd which is the wrong direction.


if you read quarterly reports you will see R&D for nvidia is similar to ati, dont really see how that's relevant to this thread though. amd is out spent in r&d by about 4x by intel but a lot of that could be manufacturing process.

Its relevent because public perception is every bit as important, if not in some cases more so, as tangible product. Why do you think JF-AMD comes to these as well as many, many other forums?


ps. Nothing against him whatsoever; he's quite amicable.

[freeloader]

I'm just happy that AMD doesn't have to put R&D dollars into fab processes now; GLOFO will do that. That's extra money that can be used for processor/GPU creation.

[god_43]

it is still going to be a joint project when it comes to process technology, it is just that amd will only have to burden like 30% or less of the cost.


only time will tell if hector ruiz's legacy is favorable or not ;p.

[freeloader]

it is still going to be a joint project when it comes to process technology, it is just that amd will only have to burden like 30% or less of the cost.


only time will tell if hector ruiz's legacy is favorable or not ;p.

I'm pretty sure with the latest settlement between AMD and Intel, that AMD could if they choose to do so, sell their remaining share in GLOFO without any issues. I wouldn't be surprised if AMD ends up doing just that.

[god_43]

I'm pretty sure with the latest settlement between AMD and Intel, that AMD could if they choose to do so, sell their remaining share in GLOFO without any issues. I wouldn't be surprised if AMD ends up doing just that.

strategically it would be stupid to completely spin them off this soon after they were formed. until they understand their new relationship, and global foundries becomes a more competent player in the fab market.....amd is going no where fast.




edit: i should say "most likely" heh even i don't know the future.

[JF-AMD]

Its relevent because public perception is every bit as important, if not in some cases more so, as tangible product. Why do you think JF-AMD comes to these as well as many, many other forums?


ps. Nothing against him whatsoever; he's quite amicable.

Actually he comes here because there was a lot of misinformation about my products so I needed to clear it up. You may note that I don't bother to chime in on the "intel vs amd, which to buy" threads. I leave that to the fanboys.

[JF-AMD]

I'm just happy that AMD doesn't have to put R&D dollars into fab processes now; GLOFO will do that. That's extra money that can be used for processor/GPU creation.

That's the idea. In the past the competition could attack in 2 areas: product and process, and to compete you have to spend in both (fyi, process is a lot more expensive).

Now, all we have to spend on product, someone else can spend on process. It was a strategic move more than a financial move.

[qurious63ss]

That's the idea. In the past the competition could attack in 2 areas: product and process, and to compete you have to spend in both (fyi, process is a lot more expensive).

Now, all we have to spend on product, someone else can spend on process. It was a strategic move more than a financial move.

WOW! So GF giving you guys the chips for free? I know you want to make it sound like it's all positive to go fabless but reality is very different since you are paying per wafer, die whatever and at a premium and GF will now have their own priorities that may not go inline with Amd's so they could push out process shrinks out if they see it in their best interest. I have to wonder how much you are really saving by losing control of your manufacturing and I would love to hear what your old CEO/founder Mr. Sanders feels about Amd's new fabless model.

[Nedjo]

WOW! So GF giving you guys the chips for free? I know you want to make it sound like it's all positive to go fabless but reality is very different since you are paying per wafer, die whatever and at a premium and GF will now have their own priorities that may not go inline with Amd's so they could push out process shrinks out if they see it in their best interest.

so you have insight in AMD-GloFo business model?
pfff...

[qurious63ss]

so you have insight in AMD-GloFo business model?
pfff...

No, but I would imagine it to be common sense that they will put their interest in front of Amd's interest. No? Is it that hard to believe that they could push out a shrink for a quarter or two to milk out the current process? BTW i'm not speeking of AMD business model but GF business model.

[Nedjo]

No, but I would imagine it to be common sense that they will put their interest in front of Amd's interest. No? Is it that hard to believe that they could push out a shrink for a quarter or two to milk out the current process? BTW i'm not speeking of AMD business model but GF business model.

I assume that fact that AMD owns 1/3 of the GloFo doesn't mean anything?
Good that you admit not having a clue about AMD/GloFo deal - something that I'm positive JF has much more insight!

[qurious63ss]

I may have no clue of the AMD deal but I do understand how the industry works. Anyways, there is always another side of the story and I'm thinking that the fabless deal is not a win win situation that was done merely for strategic purposes. Giving control of manufacturing is more important then you think especially when it comes to cutting edge tech that is required for processors. http://www.reuters.com/article/idCNLDE60J1TQ20100120

[Nedjo]

I may have no clue of the AMD deal but I do understand how the industry works. Anyways, there is always another side of the story and I'm thinking that the fabless deal is not a win win situation that was done merely for strategic purposes. Giving control of manufacturing is more important then you think especially when it comes to cutting edge tech that is required for processors. http://www.reuters.com/article/idCNLDE60J1TQ20100120

to stay competitive in business GloFo must continue same pace of process development if not even more intense. So there's no real worry about AMD staying behind in process race!

And regarding the cost - it's not like AMD in the past had free of charge wafers and chips! There's no reason why should they pay them more than before!

[informal]

Not to mention that AMD will be GloFo's primary customer...

[qurious63ss]

Not necessarily. Foundries do not need to make high end products to make a profit. A foundry by nature is a high volume low margin semis manufacturer and the cost to shrink is expensive, and it's not in GF best interest to compete with Intel in process shrink fro the following reason. As you know the older the process the cheaper it is to manufacture since most of the kinks have already been worked out of it. Recipe's are shortened and proc steps are combined with wip turns and die yields high and of course margins are at their peek. So why not stay at the older process longer while charging the same per chip/wafer and having margins high? Not trying to discredit Mr. Fruhue, I'm just providing a counter point to his win win comment.

[qurious63ss]

Not to mention that AMD will be GloFo's primary customer...

Yes, they are currently the primary customer, but that could possibly change once Abu Dhabi controls 100% of GF.

[Nedjo]

Yes, they are currently the primary customer, but that could possibly change once Abu Dhabi controls 100% of GF.

why would that change if AMD keeps GloFo's capacities full?

[Manicdan]

why would that change if AMD keeps GloFo's capacities full?

because GF is a business, and can offer more of their capacity to highest bidders maybe?

[haylui]

because GF is a business, and can offer more of their capacity to highest bidders maybe?

I don't think ARM would pay more for one chip than AMD does

[qurious63ss]

why would that change if AMD keeps GloFo's capacities full?

With Amd no longer having a say in GF decisions then there is the possibility that GF could change their focus away from Amd no matter how much Amd keeps GF full, GF will still make decisions based on whats best for GF. Some of their interest will be the same like full capacity but others like shrink cycles and the cost that comes with it might not be so. Again, not saying that this will happen but loosing control of manufacturing has its negatives and this is one of them.

[informal]

I don't think ARM would pay more for one chip than AMD does

Exactly.AMD designs and produces one of the most complex MPUs out there and the cost is proportionally high. Not to mention that the netbook business in on the rise and AMD's Bobcat is going to be a big hit with OEMs(you can quote me on this).NOt only that,but with the clear modular approach introduced with BD cores,AMD will be able to address all the segments in the near future which guarantees GloFo will keep churning out their wafers to their most valuable customer. Last but not the least,ATi division is moving out to GloFo's SOI(Llano) and bulk(Northern Islands) silicon with 28nm node and this will additionally strengthen AMD's place in customer priority list of GloFo!

[qurious63ss]

I don't think ARM would pay more for one chip than AMD does

And here is another problem. How much is Amd going to have to pay for what GF is calling "custom" manufacturing?

http://globalfoundries.com/technolog...nced_tech.aspx

As you see from the link, it looks like they are going to be doing a lot of processes at the same time.