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Thread: Nvidia hires Transmeta engineers for possible development of x86 processor

  1. 11-03-2009, 09:50 PM #1
    ajaidev
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    Nvidia hires Transmeta engineers for possible development of x86 processor

    "...There are numerous rumors circulating that NVIDIA is secreatly planing to develop X86 CPU.NVIDIA begins hiring engineers from Transme....."

    http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/dis...Engineers_to_D


    Mirror

    http://en.hardspell.com/doc/enshowcont.asp?id=7290

    Ooo so do they want to make a x86 CPU or a x86 GPU Either way this is great IMO Intel getting slaps from Nvidia and Via
    Last edited by ajaidev; 11-03-2009 at 11:07 PM.
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  2. 11-03-2009, 10:18 PM #2
    Wesker
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajaidev View Post
    "...There are numerous rumors circulating that NVIDIA is secreatly planing to develop X86 CPU.NVIDIA begins hiring engineers from Transme....."

    http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/dis...Engineers_to_D

    Ooo so do they want to make a x86 CPU or a x86 GPU Either way this is great IMO Intel getting slaps from Nvidia and Via
    x86 license?
    Quote Originally Posted by flippin_waffles on Intel's 32nm process and new process nodes
    1 or 2 percent of total volume like intel likes to do. And with the trouble intel seems to be having with they're attempt, it [32nm] doesn't look like a very mature process.
    AMD has always been quicker to a mature process and crossover point, so by the time intel gets their issues and volume sorted out, AMD won't be very far behind at all.
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  3. 11-03-2009, 10:51 PM #3
    G.Foyle
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    License problems aside, it would have mattered if they had some kind of prototype working now. There's a lot of work between hiring engineers and having a product. It would be too late to change anything for Nvidia.
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  4. 11-03-2009, 11:01 PM #4
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  5. 11-03-2009, 11:05 PM #5
    ajaidev
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    From what i can recall the Efficeon based laptops were really nice as in the size was small, but performance very bad...

    Nvidia was given some of Transmeta techs for $25 million or so dont recall which tech. Emulating x86 via a GPU maybe what the doctor asked for. With high performance Nvidia GPU's has the potential to shake up the simulated x86 performance. The Transmeta simulated cpu had software driven x86 if you use high speed hardware which is scalable you get a base that is usable not only today but for the future.

    The thing is i remember that Transmeta was suppose to be sold this years start dont remember who the buyer was tough!!


    Crap the link is 404 searching for a mirror...
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  6. 11-03-2009, 11:10 PM #6
    Solus Corvus
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    I wonder if they could avoid x86 licensing issues by emulating the instruction set in software or firmware.
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  7. 11-03-2009, 11:31 PM #7
    Chaserjzx100
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    they should have bought VIA long ago... or is this legal?
    is x86 license transferable?
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  8. 11-04-2009, 12:01 AM #8
    apt403
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaserjzx100 View Post
    they should have bought VIA long ago... or is this legal?
    is x86 license transferable?
    Not sure about VIA, but Intel threatened AMD when they spun off their fabs to GlobalFoundries because the non-transferable nature of AMD's x86 licence.
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  9. 11-04-2009, 12:03 AM #9
    FischOderAal
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    Transmeta was also known for their energy-saving technologies, am I right? Maybe they need his expertise for the next Tegra?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaserjzx100 View Post
    is x86 license transferable?
    Depends on what is written in the contract, which isn't public. Guess only VIA, Intel and maybe AMD know that for sure.
    Notice any grammar or spelling mistakes? Feel free to correct me! Thanks
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  10. 11-04-2009, 12:16 AM #10
    ~CS~
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    x86 patent is a bit old now , its bound to expire .
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  11. 11-04-2009, 12:20 AM #11
    Serpentarius
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    wow that's something new to me ... i've never thought that developing a new CPU require license permit to do it ...... as if it's human cloning
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  12. 11-04-2009, 12:40 AM #12
    madcho
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serpentarius View Post
    wow that's something new to me ... i've never thought that developing a new CPU require license permit to do it ...... as if it's human cloning

    Developing a CPU is allowed without any licence.

    Developing a CPU with x86 instructions is under strong licences. And today 98% of programs work only on x86 CPUs.

    That's a problem we all know it here, and nobody can do anything. maybe the only solution in futur for new other architectures is open source. But today microsoft and apple aren't open source, and i don't think they are near to change that.
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  13. 11-04-2009, 12:45 AM #13
    kl0012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serpentarius View Post
    wow that's something new to me ... i've never thought that developing a new CPU require license permit to do it ...... as if it's human cloning
    Actually, developing new CPU requires tons of licenses. In fact you can't develop new CPU without breaching someones patent because almost all cpu/gpu-related technical ideas already patented by someone. cpu's ISAs also patented but Intel doesn't offer its x86 ISA on free basis.
    Last edited by kl0012; 11-04-2009 at 12:55 AM.
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  14. 11-04-2009, 01:52 AM #14
    Cybercat
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    Emulating x86 is an interesting idea... No idea what kind of performance level they'd be shooting for with such an architecture. Probably nothing more than a Tegra successor. It wouldn't take much to compete with Atom.
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  15. 11-04-2009, 02:29 AM #15
    Wesker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cybercat View Post
    Emulating x86 is an interesting idea... No idea what kind of performance level they'd be shooting for with such an architecture. Probably nothing more than a Tegra successor. It wouldn't take much to compete with Atom.
    I'm no software engineer but I'm pretty sure performance would be woeful under emulation.

    Even if they were allowed to develop an x86 based emulator, I doubt they would be allowed (or be able to) to use instructions like MMX, SSE and etc.

    It just wouldn't be worth it.
    Quote Originally Posted by flippin_waffles on Intel's 32nm process and new process nodes
    1 or 2 percent of total volume like intel likes to do. And with the trouble intel seems to be having with they're attempt, it [32nm] doesn't look like a very mature process.
    AMD has always been quicker to a mature process and crossover point, so by the time intel gets their issues and volume sorted out, AMD won't be very far behind at all.
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  16. 11-04-2009, 03:20 AM #16
    Calmatory
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    Linus Torvalds?


    (Of course not.)
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  17. 11-04-2009, 03:50 AM #17
    saaya
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    the x86 license expired already, but if you want mmx and sse and sse2... then your in for quite a wait if your bedding on licenses to expire.
    and sse2 is really necessary for performance afaik...

    its a bit late to hire x86 engineers now, dont you think?
    developing a cpu or x86 emulator for a gpu should take at LEAST 2 years...

    i think they just hired engineers to work on tegra, nothing x86...
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  18. 11-04-2009, 03:53 AM #18
    s0lid
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    Quote Originally Posted by madcho View Post
    Developing a CPU with x86 instructions is under strong licences. And today 98% of programs work only on x86 CPUs.
    Well in Windows that's true, but in Linux/*NIX world there's great percent of programs ported to alternative platforms, ppc, arm, mips etc.
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  19. 11-04-2009, 04:39 AM #19
    FischOderAal
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wesker View Post
    I'm no software engineer but I'm pretty sure performance would be woeful under emulation.
    I had a Tablet-PC with a Transmeta Crusoe once. It ran at one GHz but was emulating x86. It ended up being awfully slow, even the 400 MHz P2-Mobile of my parents' laptop felt faster. It was OK for it's intended use, writing in the lectures, but for everything else it was a pain in the ... you know what I mean.

    But I dunno, maybe it's faster nowadays with hardware virtualization.
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  20. 11-04-2009, 04:49 AM #20
    zalbard
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    Nah, not happening. What Nvidia can put out at best is some ultra mobile CPU that will have hard time competing with Atom performance wise.
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  21. 11-04-2009, 05:00 AM #21
    ajaidev
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    I used a mini laptop with Transmeta Efficeon@1ghz and it was not a bad experience.. Well compared to the Via C3 laptop that i had it seemed just as fast ammm.


    The Transmeta Efficeon basically uses a non x86 arc and uses software to emulate x86 and the basic core is not x86 complient, from what i can recall the thing did support SSE/SSE2 i think. Nvidia does have a ARM license so that means for the next possible Nvidia CPU they can use a GPU core "shader units" which will be a slave and a master ARM controller.

    Since the Transmeta x86 tech allows the x86 emulation from boot till end the ARM controller can set say 1-5% shaders to emulate and process the x86 markers and then when it loads windows the emulation can spread to all shaders with certain blocks doing certain x86 related things.

    EDIT:- To know what i am talking about download the Zii SDK "Zii is a wonderful product" it seems simple enough to program and you can control blocks of the elements for certain operations in contrast the IBM Cell SDK is very hellish difficult to understand and i did not understand how to program it IMO.
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  22. 11-04-2009, 05:12 AM #22
    Snow Crash
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    So now we have Nvidia trying to make GPU do x86 and Intel trying to make x86 do graphics :-)
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  23. 11-04-2009, 08:06 AM #23
    saaya
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    i still dont get what the big deal about x86 is to begin with...
    modern x86 cpus are risc based with an x86 decoder strapped to them from what i understand...

    transmeta and others do x86 without a license by emulating...
    so if its an x86 decoder then you need a license, if its an x86 translator/emulator then you dont...
    so when is it a decoder and when is it a translator/emulator? isnt it the same thing? its just arguing about semantics here...
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  24. 11-04-2009, 08:22 AM #24
    ajaidev
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    Quote Originally Posted by saaya View Post
    i still dont get what the big deal about x86 is to begin with...
    modern x86 cpus are risc based with an x86 decoder strapped to them from what i understand...

    transmeta and others do x86 without a license by emulating...
    so if its an x86 decoder then you need a license, if its an x86 translator/emulator then you dont...
    so when is it a decoder and when is it a translator/emulator? isnt it the same thing? its just arguing about semantics here...
    RISC or CISC??

    Thats why Intel sued transmeta because of x86 emulation
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  25. 11-04-2009, 08:43 AM #25
    highoctane
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    Just out of curiosity I started searching around and it would seem Nvidia purchased ULi at some point which I guess was also related to ALi which is the company that makes the x86 cpu used our cnc burn machine.

    Anyways Nvidia may be able to produce embedded x86 based products.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_x86_manufacturers

    x86-processors for embedded designs only

    * Zet IA-32 (Zet is a GPL open source FPGA implementation targeting the Xilinx ML403 and Altera DE1) [1]
    * ZF Micro (ZFx86 - Cx486DX SoC)
    * Nvidia (M6117C - 386SX)
    * ALi (x86 products went to Nvidia through the ULi sale)
    * SiS (discontinued its Vortex86 line)
    * D&MP Electronics (continues SiS' Vortex86 line)
    * RDC Semiconducters (R8610 an R8620)
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