Physics Working On HD 4890?

[PeterStoba]

Been pulled?

[Clunk]

Should be back later.

[trinibwoy]

but that's the problem... physx doesnt add any eye candy that wouldnt be possible without it as well.

Can you name a game with decent cloth simulation? Check out the flags at 1:14 in this video. Is that the great physics that you're referring to?

I hear a lot of people saying that we can do xyz without PhysX but nobody ever actually links to a game doing it. The one thing I've seen is interactive fog in Stalker, but that's about it.

[Angry]

The whole PhysX is overrated IMO as not many games out there really take its advantage nor you realize it even exits in the game. Sure there are exceptions like Mirror's Edge and Batman AA but for the rest, it's all about Nvidia marketing that make people think PhysX is a vital part of the game while in fact it isn't. And for the Nvidia fanboys showing their PhysX e-penis too. As long as the graphics and gameplay are great I'm sure every gamers out there could care less about PhysX.

I'm not an NV-fanboie taking the nvidia-extenze my e-penis pill, wether it be ati or nvidia, I prefered the added effect of physics in general. Now I haven't played batman:aa but from has been said if I wanted to enjoy the physics of that particular game, I'd have to have an Nv gpu. Which sucks in the end of it all. Nvidia has played some dirty tricks get thier physx as a standard...which is retarded with DirectX 11 coming...

[mao5]

9.11 beta openCL drv doesn't support ATI GPU to do PHYSX, no matter in 3DMARK Vantage CPU Test2 or Batman AA 1.1

9.9 whql drv



9.11 beta opencl drv



9.9 whql drv



9.11 beta opencl drv

[kl0012]

Can you name a game with decent cloth simulation? Check out the flags at 1:14 in this video. Is that the great physics that you're referring to?

Cloth simulation is not too dificult task for CPU. There is another reason why we don't see it in games (probably "lazy developers" ).

One key feature of Havok Cloth is the ability to switch between different simulation representations dynamically, without losing shape or momentum (velocity). In this demo each of the flags changes resolution depending of camera distance, simulating 1024 flags under 5% CPU usage at 60fps on a standard PC. Flags also collide with Havok rigid bodies and are affected by a turbulent wind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtyIjRD6lAw

Another demo of cloth sim on CPU from Havok:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZAklyFa_D0

And something interesting from Project Offset (which probably uses Havok's tools):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jC6m...eature=related

[xVeinx]

Can you name a game with decent cloth simulation? Check out the flags at 1:14 in this video. Is that the great physics that you're referring to?

I hear a lot of people saying that we can do xyz without PhysX but nobody ever actually links to a game doing it. The one thing I've seen is interactive fog in Stalker, but that's about it.

You have a point. I know that Guild Wars 2 will be incorporating Havok physics (CPU based), and you can get glimpses of it in action in the trailer, especially at the scene when the new warrior toon is in the water. Both the cloth of his cape and the motion of the water contain elements of physics, and look really good...

[STaRGaZeR]

I think it was obvious the OP doesn't know what he's talking about? Do we really need a confirmation mao5?

Can you name a game with decent cloth simulation? Check out the flags at 1:14 in this video. Is that the great physics that you're referring to?

I hear a lot of people saying that we can do xyz without PhysX but nobody ever actually links to a game doing it. The one thing I've seen is interactive fog in Stalker, but that's about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DysX2LEj9kM&fmt=22

This game is from 2006. It had to be recorded at only 30fps but it's already fluid with that. In-game physics are awesome, the car's movement is ultra realistic, even having into account the style of the game.

And there are lots of other games, this is just one I've installed. Physics hardware acceleration is a scam today. Nobody will moan when they release an API that accurately emulates reality, needing the use of dedicated hardware for the calculations. But if you try to sell effects we had years ago but this time with perfomance penalties and hardware restrictions, people will moan. However, as always, there will be some conformists and fanboys ready to defend their precious company and its actions.

[RaZz!]

Can you name a game with decent cloth simulation? Check out the flags at 1:14 in this video. Is that the great physics that you're referring to?

I hear a lot of people saying that we can do xyz without PhysX but nobody ever actually links to a game doing it. The one thing I've seen is interactive fog in Stalker, but that's about it.

i think you misunderstood what i was saying

re-read my first posting: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...6&postcount=34

what i was saying is that these more realistic effects are cool and i'm fine if people with a nvidia gpu can utilize their gpu for better physic effects - even though it's lame to lock ati customers out, but that's just a feature of nv gpus, but that's another story.
BUT what i don't like about it is that they cripple games and don't add any physics at all if no nvidia gpu is present.
they could include static fog and banners - but nooo, they remove such things altogether if physx is disabled and therefore the atmosphere suffers tremendously.

I think it was obvious the OP doesn't know what he's talking about? Do we really need a confirmation mao5?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DysX2LEj9kM&fmt=22

This game is from 2006. It had to be recorded at only 30fps but it's already fluid with that. In-game physics are awesome, the car's movement is ultra realistic, even having into account the style of the game.

And there are lots of other games, this is just one I've installed. Physics hardware acceleration is a scam today. Nobody will moan when they release an API that accurately emulates reality, needing the use of dedicated hardware for the calculations. But if you try to sell effects we had years ago but this time with perfomance penalties and hardware restrictions, people will moan. However, as always, there will be some conformists and fanboys ready to defend their precious company and its actions.

exactly. we already had waving flags in unreal tournament in 1999. it's not as realistic and not destroyable (e.g. when shooting it), but it's better than no flag at all - which happens when physx is disabled.
i don't see the problem to add static flags/banners instead of removing them. or what i said about the fog.

[largon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DysX2LEj9kM&fmt=22

2 words:
Static. Animation.


No physics simulation whatsoever.

[STaRGaZeR]

You want realtime simulation of something you can't even see when you're playing? In a 2006 free game?

Use PhysX or Havok or something else without the hardware paths and stop ruining games.

I'm SO sure we need a dedicated processor to have fog and breaking cristals in a game like Mirror's Edge. Next one will be: you need a GTX2xx card to see Batman's robe, otherwise he'll play with no robe at all

[largon]

Actually yes. I'd like that.

But the quest we're on is called "name a game with decent cloth simulation".
Animation doesn't apply.

[Clunk]

I think it was obvious the OP doesn't know what he's talking about? Do we really need a confirmation mao5?

Guys, I apologise if the article has misled or upset anyone, that was not the intention. I did not write the article, nor do I even have the Batman game or a 4890, one of our news team stumbled across the drivers and decided to try it for himself. It was the drop in CPU usage that was shown in the video that led him to the conclusion that there was some kind of physics happening and with hindsight, it probably shouldn't have been posted until it had been tested further. I have since removed the article from the site. You win some, you lose some and some you fail miserably

[trinibwoy]

they could include static fog and banners - but nooo, they remove such things altogether if physx is disabled and therefore the atmosphere suffers tremendously.

Yeah no argument there.

2 words:
Static. Animation.


No physics simulation whatsoever.

Thank you. Not sure how canned animations are indicative of a CPUs capacity to do cloth simulations. Sure, if you're looking for the visual effect that's fine but it's completely irrelevant to a discussion on physics. We've had fake smoke, water, destruction etc for ages too.

[STaRGaZeR]

Actually yes. I'd like that.

But the quest we're on is called "name a game with decent cloth simulation".
Animation doesn't apply.

Fine, I guess you'd define as animation physics everything except Havok, PhysX and the like. I'll name Assassin's Creed or any UE3 game.

Now a question for anybody asking for "cloth simulation": it's your turn to name engines with "cloth simulation" and games using those engines.

Also, for the sake of the argument, you should define cloth simulation, put examples of both good and bad simulations, and what kind of resources a good simulation requires.

[eternal_fantasy]

You want realtime simulation of something you can't even see when you're playing? In a 2006 free game?

You used that game as an example of

In-game physics are awesome, the car's movement is ultra realistic, even having into account the style of the game.

Then say you cant even see when you're ingame when it was challenged? Are you trolling? cus I can't tell.

[Farinorco]

Fine, I guess you'd define as animation physics everything except Havok, PhysX and the like. I'll name Assassin's Creed or any UE3 game.

Now a question for anybody asking for "cloth simulation": it's your turn to name engines with "cloth simulation" and games using those engines.

Also, for the sake of the argument, you should define cloth simulation, put examples of both good and bad simulations, and what kind of resources a good simulation requires.

When they are talking about "cloth simulation", they are talking about simulating the behaviour of soft bodies with physics based calculations, applying forces in real time on the different polygons of the object to generate at runtime a physics based animation. That way the animation is generated depending on collision detection with other objects, or applying other forces, in real time.

On the other hand, most of current cloths and other soft bodies "simulations" are faked with pre-scripted animations ("static" animations). The thing with pre-scripted animations is that they are scripted so they don't interact with anything. At most, you can make different animations in order to play one or another depending on the event which triggers the animation or at random to add some variety, but each animation would be always the same.

[SocketMan]

Can you name a game with decent cloth simulation? Check out the flags at 1:14 in this video. Is that the great physics that you're referring to?

I hear a lot of people saying that we can do xyz without PhysX but nobody ever actually links to a game doing it. The one thing I've seen is interactive fog in Stalker, but that's about it.

OFP2 does Physics with Havoc.Not sure about cloth but blowing up buildings,shooting glass etc all looks very nice.The game itself is a bit limited imo.


If you're into cloth fetishes:
http://www.havok.com/index.php?page=havok-cloth

[STaRGaZeR]

@Farinorco

Every script is a simulation. The animation of the flags in that game and lots of other effects in others are calculated, then scripted, repeated, etc. You can call them simulated. Everything that mimics reality is simulated. That's why I'm asking these guys for their definition. Good, bad, simulated, etc. are terms that mean different things for different people in this context. What you're describing is the meaning of interactive, not simulated. You can call every part of a game a simulation, including any kind of physics.

Most game physics today just don't represent gravity or fluids the way we see them. Everything is slow, is floating. Is that simulated gravity, in the sense of your simulated cloths? Simulated means real looking, real time, interactive, or what for you? Real time can be bad looking and viceversa. This is and endless discussion of what's good and what's bad. In the end we have more and more games that don't really represent reality better, yet you need more and more resources to calculate effects that doesn't really improve what we had before in the critical areas that need to be improved in order for the effects to be considered real. Morons at game studios excluding potential customers with propietary implementations don't help either.

You used that game as an example of Then say you cant even see when you're ingame when it was challenged? Are you trolling? cus I can't tell.

You should read before calling someone a troll. The guy asked for simulated cloth physics. These are simulated cloth physics. The rest was just extra info. When I said they can't be seen I meant you can't see them when you're actually playing the game, considering the speed you're playing at. That's the main reason they're scripted. Of course they can be seen if you stop the car and look at them, if not I couldn't have recorded that video

[Farinorco]

@Farinorco

Every script is a simulation. The animation of the flags in that game and lots of other effects in others are calculated, then scripted, repeated, etc. You can call them simulated. Everything that mimics reality is simulated. That's why I'm asking these guys for their definition. Good, bad, simulated, etc. are terms that mean different things for different people in this context. What you're describing is the meaning of interactive, not simulated. You can call every part of a game a simulation, including any kind of physics.

Most game physics today just don't represent gravity or fluids the way we see them. Everything is slow, is floating. Is that simulated gravity, in the sense of your simulated cloths? Simulated means real looking, real time, interactive, or what for you? Real time can be bad looking and viceversa. This is and endless discussion of what's good and what's bad. In the end we have more and more games that don't really represent reality better, yet you need more and more resources to calculate effects that doesn't really improve what we had before in the critical areas that need to be improved in order for the effects to be considered real. Morons at game studios excluding potential customers with propietary implementations don't help either.

Of course the scripts must come from somewhere...

What I'm describing is what they are calling "cloth simulation" and what they are calling "static animations", nothing else. You have asked about that point, haven't you?

Of course, everywhere you are using something to represent an event that is not real, is a "simulation". But I think it's obvious that they are talking about real time cloth physics simulation when they are asking for titles with cloth simulation... I don't think that arguing semantics is going to change their point...

[viccan]

I just ordered an old Ageia Physx 128meg card off ebay just to try and see if it will get me the physX extras on Batman AA... I've read conflicting reviews of usage with 4870x2?
Not sure if it will work or not?? If not guess it'll go right back on ebay... Has anyone here tried using one with modern games (LoL games over 2 years I should say ??

[annihilat0r]

viccan: You can use a PhysX device with your ATI but you need some haxx0rz. Easy stuff though.

[zanzabar]

there is a cracked physX driver that will make it work with ati cards rendering (not sure if it works on the agea) or u can just use an older driver that supports ati cards and physX

i also dont think that they were legally able to pull support for ati cards using an agea card, i would expect them to put it back soon or to get a class action lawsuit

[eternal_fantasy]

You should read before calling someone a troll

I asked if you are a troll. you should read before accusing someone of calling you a troll. There is a difference between calling someone gay and asking if they are gay.

[viccan]

there is a cracked physX driver that will make it work with ati cards rendering (not sure if it works on the agea) or u can just use an older driver that supports ati cards and physX

i also dont think that they were legally able to pull support for ati cards using an agea card, i would expect them to put it back soon or to get a class action lawsuit

I read that the Old 8.09.04 drivers will work, while not fully supporting the new code for games such as batman aa. I was unaware of the new cracked/ hacked drivers are they based on the 9.09.0203 driver or recent? I tried googling but didn't see anything? can you PM me a link ?? Id really appreciate it..

Thanks for the heads up