Nvidia responds to Batman:AA

[Clairvoyant129]

Wait what, doesn't UE3 already have built in AA? Seems like the only thing Nvidia worked on was making sure AMD cards couldnt run AA and turning some of the special effects into PhysX effects.

Scattering pappers on the floor as you walk by? C'mon...even crytek inhouse physics engine is better then that and they didnt need PHYSX to run it.

No, UE3 doesn't have AA built into it.

[Dante80]

“In the case of Batman's AA support, NVIDIA essentially built the AA engine explicitly for Eidos - AA didn't exist in the game engine before that. NVIDIA knew that this title was going to be a big seller on the PC and spent the money/time to get it working on their hardware. Eidos told us in an email conversation that the offer was made to AMD for them to send engineers to their studios and do the same work NVIDIA did for its own hardware, but AMD declined.”
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=791

This is getting more hilarious by the minute...XD

Now, not only they claim that they built the AA engine for Eidos (fail), but that Eidos extorted AMD to work on the game too (fail) or there would be no AA for ATI cards (and almost half their customers - fail). Add this to the PhysX exclusive basic visual effects that they were too lazy to double code for the other half of their customers (fail), and we get a fairly accurate view of what TWIMTBP actually did for that title (just add epic to the fail).

I don't think that EA will even think of doing sth like that again...the backlash is already global, and certainly justified...Of course, the AA problem with be fixed by a patch by Eidos asap (if they are not suicidal that is). Mainly because there is no problem to begin with (ATI cards are reported to work flawlessly with AA, as soon as you trick the system into thinking...they are nvidia cards)...

The only sad part, is that there are consumers (gamers and GPU buyers alike) that think this was a good move...without EVEN considering what the implications would be for the game industry if actions like these go mainstream...

So whats next? DX11 effects in games AMD helps only working on ATI cards? Games that use only PhysX for basic gameplay elements? AMD shutting down sli or/and nvidia support on their motherboards? Games starting only if id device checks are made?

This is a glass of hideous snot thats forming, and the consumers should be the least inclined to chug it. Period.

Disclaimer to fanboys: I am not an ATI fan.

[eric66]

It's so nice to know AMD/ATI didn't fail at all in this whole episode

so you say nvidia build engine lol and they asked ati to built there own engine either instead of using nvidia engines it will come with two one for ati and one for nvidia and ati must send an engineer to every f..... game company in order to make there game work on ati hardware i mean saying that amd failed is even moronic than believing this crap sorry

[Xoulz]

This is getting more hilarious by the minute...XD

Now, not only they claim that they built the AA engine for Eidos (fail), but that Eidos extorted AMD to work on the game too (fail) or there would be no AA for ATI cards (and almost half their customers - fail). Add this to the PhysX exclusive basic visual effects that they were too lazy to double code for the other half of their customers (fail), and we get a fairly accurate view of what TWIMTBP actually did for that title (just add epic to the fail).

I don't think that EA will even think of doing sth like that again...the backlash is already global, and certainly justified...Of course, the AA problem with be fixed by a patch by Eidos asap (if they are not suicidal that is). Mainly because there is no problem to begin with (ATI cards are reported to work flawlessly with AA, as soon as you trick the system into thinking...they are nvidia cards)...

The only sad part, is that there are consumers (gamers and GPU buyers alike) that think this was a good move...without EVEN considering what the implications would be for the game industry if actions like these go mainstream...

So whats next? DX11 effects in games AMD helps only working on ATI cards? Games that use only PhysX for basic gameplay elements? AMD shutting down sli or/and nvidia support on their motherboards? Games starting only if id device checks are made?

This is a glass of hideous snot thats forming, and the consumers should be the least inclined to chug it. Period.

Disclaimer to fanboys: I am not an ATI fan.

Well said^^ ...!

[LiquidReactor]

No, UE3 doesn't have AA built into it.

lol...didnt know that.

If this is what its coming too then ATI should have done the following.

Pay Eidos to fix the "aa problem" and also pay Eidos to add dx 10.1 and dx 11 suppport

Now that would have been hilarious. I wonder if Nvidia would still stick around if Eidos added DX 10.1 and DX 11 support just for ATI cards.

[Clairvoyant129]

lol...didnt know that.

If this is what its coming too then ATI should have done the following.

Pay Eidos to fix the "aa problem" and also pay Eidos to add dx 10.1 and dx 11 suppport

Now that would have been hilarious. I wonder if Nvidia would still stick around if Eidos added DX 10.1 and DX 11 support just for ATI cards.

Too bad, even if Eidos asked AMD to add DX 10.1 and DX 11 support on top of AA, AMD still would have declined.

[Luka_Aveiro]

Is this sarcasm i hear ? Care to elaborate and make your posts more useful ? Why are only quoting part of my post , work for FOX ?

After reading trough the whole thread , i see no way in which AMD/ATI failed , i only see random posts with no opinions but only links to statements which mean nothing to me .

Yes, it was sarcasm

AMD/ATI failed when they declined testing AA and then came to public whine because it was unavailable for untested hardware. Simple.

so you say nvidia build engine lol and they asked ati to built there own engine either instead of using nvidia engines it will come with two one for ati and one for nvidia and ati must send an engineer to every f..... game company in order to make there game work on ati hardware i mean saying that amd failed is even moronic than believing this crap sorry

Moronic is not wanting to test the work done from others to check if it's compatible with the very own hardware you sell and then come to public and bash that work because it's locked.

That's moronic and sad.

[Eastcoasthandle]

Lets look at what a developer should say in situations like this then. Here is what Ian Bell, developer for the NFS: Shift game had to say about the optimization issue.

We’ve worked hard to add additional optimisations for ATI cards with success. This will be coming in a future patch. In the mean time, using a profile from other games helps. I’ve heard that renaming the exe to grid.exe helps a fair bit on ATI cards.

It also appears that he also said this in the comments section:

We have been working on further ATI optimisations that will be released ina future patch. We’ve seen some substantial gains.

source

This IMO is how a developer shows good faith that they will fix their game. Yes, it remains to be seen however, I do like the initiative from him to communicate with the community about their concerns.

[highoctane]

Noooo Nvidia will never allow them to release an ATI fix because Nvidia paid them off and are using strong arm tactics to cripple ATI. </sarcasm>

Good to hear there is a fix in the works so the pitch forks and monotovs can be put away.

This whole thread would make for a great southpark skit...

[Eastcoasthandle]

Noooo Nvidia will never allow them to release an ATI fix because Nvidia paid them off and are using strong arm tactics to cripple ATI. </sarcasm>

Good to hear there is a fix in the works so the pitch forks and monotovs can be put away.

This whole thread would make for a great southpark skit...

I don't believe you fully understood what I mean. Let me elaborate a bit as the slow performance issues people were experiencing wasn't:
-Specific driver issue
-AMD lacking developer relationship with SMS
-etc
SMS simply decided to further communicate with AMD get their game fully optimized for their customers so they can release it in a patch. Which contrasts what I read later in this thread from another company. This is why I said this is how a developer should handle situations like this.

[VoodooProphetII]

Good to hear there is a fix in the works so the pitch forks and monotovs can be put away.

I think you have a point. It is sad to see how passionate people become over issues as insignificant as this. People are dying of hunger, aids, genocide or murder all over the world, but we go on and on about how bad this is.

Get a live.

[highoctane]

I don't believe you fully understood what I mean.

Alright fire up the monotovs and brandish ye pitch forks I guess...

Ok I assumed you're quotes where in regards to batman, its still a matter of waiting on ATI and the developer to deliver a solution/patch.

[Solus Corvus]

I think you have a point. It is sad to see how passionate people become over issues as insignificant as this. People are dying of hunger, aids, genocide or murder all over the world, but we go on and on about how bad this is.

Get a live.

Well thanks for that bit of perspective. When you put it that way, why are we even playing games or messing with computers? I should be teaching people how to grow wheat in the namib.

[VoodooProphetII]

Man, grass in the Namib would be great. I can do with that. No, but back on topic. It is just funny to see how passionate we sometimes get when it comes to things like this.

[Eastcoasthandle]

Alright fire up the monotovs and brandish ye pitch forks I guess...

Ok I assumed you're quotes where in regards to batman, its still a matter of waiting on ATI and the developer to deliver a solution/patch.

Although this post has nothing to do with my explanation I am sure you understood what I said

[LC_Nab]

I think you have a point. It is sad to see how passionate people become over issues as insignificant as this. People are dying of hunger, aids, genocide or murder all over the world, but we go on and on about how bad this is.

Get a live.

First of all , why the get a life ? just because society thinks otherwise ? Ignorance has no limits , second we all have a life , we choose how we want to live it .

People have been dying since the begining of days , theres no stoping it even if you weep or pray . Also just because you find this insignificant , does not mean that others will find it to , We all have our passions , if you want to be humanitarian so be it ,if others choose to fight over right or wrong so be it , I dont see any wrong about it , such is human behavior . What they did was wrong , makes no difference if its significant or not , its still wrong .

Wrong is wrong no matter if its big or small , same for good .

We need to vote with our wallets , only way to teach companies to not do as they wish , its what the consumer wants not the other way around . They will keep doing such as long as we enable them .

[Farinorco]

Yes, it was sarcasm

AMD/ATI failed when they declined testing AA and then came to public whine because it was unavailable for untested hardware. Simple.



Moronic is not wanting to test the work done from others to check if it's compatible with the very own hardware you sell and then come to public and bash that work because it's locked.

That's moronic and sad.

Except that it's not the AMD's business to do nothing with software from other companies, except if it relates somehow with the hardware itself or its drivers (because the hw --or its drivers-- fail to work as it should with the interface layers it's supposedly compliant to).

Eidos knew about the potential sales of this game, and they wanted to use that as a way to extort IHV's to make for them some work for free (that it's responsability of Eidos, not of the IHV's). AMD didn't want to do that (probably amongst other things because the game was going to carry a label with the NVIDIA's logo, for starters), and NVIDIA did. How does it mean a fail from AMD?

The only thing bad (and very bad) in all this matter is the lock to the AA feature in the software to ATI hw:

*If it is so because a pressure from NVIDIA (what I thought before the Eidos response) the only one to blame would be NVIDIA. It doesn't seem the case here.

*If it is so because Eidos want to punish AMD for not wanting to work for free for them (punishing to part of their consumers as well) to force them to do it the next time, the only one to blame is Eidos. They are damaging the consumer (as if they would care about it) to put pressure on other company to give them money (work is money in industry), in an old mafia-like style...

*If it is so because Eidos didn't want to do their work and test some of their code into some of the compatible platforms which they are selling to as compatible, then it's also Eidos fault. They are being negligent at offering their customers a finished product.

A software not working properly is never fault of any IHV (except if it's sw developed by this IHV, or it does not work properly because of hardware fault).

So no, AMD didn't fail. Their hardware works flawlessly with the standards the game uses. Eidos did. Their game isn't working properly with all the hardware which should be compatible with it. AMD (and of course the consumers) is the victim (because they are receiving damage), not the culprit (because they don't have any kind of responsability). Saying otherwise is to make the game for Eidos.

[VoodooProphetII]

First of all , why the get a life ? just because society thinks otherwise ? Ignorance has no limits , second we all have a life , we choose how we want to live it .

People have been dying since the begining of days , theres no stoping it even if you weep or pray . Also just because you find this insignificant , does not mean that others will find it to , We all have our passions , if you want to be humanitarian so be it ,if others choose to fight over right or wrong so be it , I dont see any wrong about it , such is human behavior . What they did was wrong , makes no difference if its significant or not , its still wrong .

Wrong is wrong no matter if its big or small , same for good .

We need to vote with our wallets , only way to teach companies to not do as they wish , its what the consumer wants not the other way around . They will keep doing such as long as we enable them .

So be it then.

[Truckchase!]

“In the case of Batman's AA support, NVIDIA essentially built the AA engine explicitly for Eidos - AA didn't exist in the game engine before that. NVIDIA knew that this title was going to be a big seller on the PC and spent the money/time to get it working on their hardware. Eidos told us in an email conversation that the offer was made to AMD for them to send engineers to their studios and do the same work NVIDIA did for its own hardware, but AMD declined.”
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=791

PCPer isn't a trustworthy source for any vendor related news, (ANY vendor) they're far to integrated into the supply chain. Conflict of interest.

This thread Is getting crazy. Nobody is convincing anyone of anything @ this point. I guess my "give me back my jacket" post was too subversive and therefore removed. That's a first in four and a half years. Thanks.