The ATI Radeon 5XXX Thread

[Calmatory]

Doesn't matter. That's how it has been all the past years, why should it change? Why can many AMD X3s be unlocked to X4s? Why were there so many X1800 GTOs that could be unlocked (until ATI introduced a laser cut?)?

It certainly does matter whether you pay $180 for a card, can you sell it for $249 or $299. (And yeah, the values come from my magic hat).

If the yields are low, then of course it is benefitical to salvage some SP's, but I believe this is not the case. I doubt any SP's will be disabled, but HD5850 to use lower binned(cheaper) GDDR5 and lower binned RV870 core.

[jmke]

and theres a rumor going around that the 5870 will cost 100$ less than a 295, which is 399$ then? thats pretty high... either yields are bad or ati wants to cash in as long as nvidia cant compete... i have to say, i really dont like what im hearing about prices now... it really spoils the anticipation of the new 800 series :/

sorry, but we're still living in a capitalistic society, the reason the current 4xxx series is so affordable is not because AMD/ATI is being nice/friendly; it's because they want to grab market share by offering better price/performance ratio; if their 5870 performs on par with a more expensive NVIDIA product and they price it lower they continue the trend. If their products performs better and is priced the same, they also continue the trend. I see no fault in this logic; a fault in the logic would be for them to give away their products at lower prices "just because".

[JohnJohn]

I have a feeling that the main difference between 5870 & 5850 will be clocks, and 2gb vs 1gb. I think there won't be any 2gb 5850 anytime soon. I think also there will be salvaged parts for 5830 in 3-4 months or so

[saaya]

that would require a lot of redundant sps and other logic blocks in the gpu... which would explain the large die size... that plus dx11 i guess...
so yes, we might not see logic cut down rv870s... or the few that will be damaged beyong redundancy replacement will be cut down and sold as juniper...

sorry, but we're still living in a capitalistic society, the reason the current 4xxx series is so affordable is not because AMD/ATI is being nice/friendly; it's because they want to grab market share by offering better price/performance ratio; if their 5870 performs on par with a more expensive NVIDIA product and they price it lower they continue the trend. If their products performs better and is priced the same, they also continue the trend. I see no fault in this logic; a fault in the logic would be for them to give away their products at lower prices "just because".

who said just because?
i think they should continue to capture market share and if they price their cards that high they wont capture as much... a lot of nvidia fans will camp and wait with prices that high... what won over people from nvidia to ati in the past was better perf at better price, or worse perf at much better price... a little better perf at a little lower price wont wow anybody, especially long term nvidia users...

like ive said, who knows what the right price is especially in the industries current situation... so yes, it makes sense to start high... i just hope they drop prices soon after the launch...

[Etihtsarom]

sorry, but we're still living in a capitalistic society, the reason the current 4xxx series is so affordable is not because AMD/ATI is being nice/friendly; it's because they want to grab market share by offering better price/performance ratio; if their 5870 performs on par with a more expensive NVIDIA product and they price it lower they continue the trend. If their products performs better and is priced the same, they also continue the trend. I see no fault in this logic; a fault in the logic would be for them to give away their products at lower prices "just because".

Thats mostly it. But does it not escape you all that 4850 launched at $200 and 4870@ $300, that is to say, these cards "branded" us with the notion that they're mid-ranged, Not high-end; 4870x2 was high-end@$500. IF they were to launch another XX50 and XX70 set of cards, they ought to retain that pricing structure, else call the cards by a different name, say, 5880 and 5890. What I'm really saying is, I don't like the sound of 5850, 5870 @$300 and $400; but .... 5880@$300 and 5890@$400 Sounds better. I know you're all disliking what you're hearing about that pricing, don't lie.

N/e ways, the thing is, with a X2, I'm so NOT excited about these cards coming b/c there are not that many games out there that demands much more than X2, even @ 2500 resolution, and Especially @ 1900 res that I have.

[Etihtsarom]

Yeah dude, you^^ nailed it!



Secondly, I think people are pricing these too high. The 5850 Will debut @ $269, dropping to $225 by Xmas. The 5870 will debut @ $369 and carry a $299 price tag till next summer.

The X2 line will get it's own specialized treatment and starting @ $400 ...!


Some very interesting stuff coming though, specially since they are getting closer to dual-GPU (ie: dual core).. the cross-communication is getting sophisticated and whoever lith is most advanced and robust, will be the class leader of this next gen!

Expect the X2 to gobble Crysis ~ ARMA 2 and give a really immerse experience. We know nVidia's is going to outperform and cost more, but the X2 has the potential to upset nVidia's business plans.

The rest is already a forgone conclusion, given that they are already marketing the 300 series, as re-branded cards. nVidia's can only compete in the high-end market and if ATi does this X2 right... nVidia might have a shake up!

[antiacid]

rumors, rumors and rumors. Let's get our panties in a bunch because it might be true in a parallel universe! Awesome.

I thought that the "news" section was to discuss actual news... This could be moved to the ATI/AMD section perhaps.

[Manicdan]

like ive said, who knows what the right price is especially in the industries current situation... so yes, it makes sense to start high... i just hope they drop prices soon after the launch...

my rule #1 when shopping, launch prices are never a good price

this goes with technology products and cars particularly, and many other random things i cant think of. but its very expected for a product to come out high, get a nice margin, then shock the world when it comes down 20% and make the next wave of people think they are getting an incredible deal. but no one really knows what the price should be (and im sure those who think they know probably had to sift through 1000 factors like cost, research, advertising, storage, trasportating, depreciation, taxes, ect)

[Baron_Davis]

I think we can all agree that the 58xx series will tear up...

[Dragy2k]

http://www.semiaccurate.com/2009/09/...-shader-count/

and theres a rumor going around that the 5870 will cost 100$ less than a 295, which is 399$ then? thats pretty high... either yields are bad or ati wants to cash in as long as nvidia cant compete... i have to say, i really dont like what im hearing about prices now... it really spoils the anticipation of the new 800 series :/

i really hope those are only the launch prices and they will drop notably after a few weeks...

EDIT: and about gt300.. it should easily beat a 5870, i dont think anybody doubts that, the question is more about how much itll cost... gt300 will definately bring the perf crown back to nvidia once it comes out, but that seems to be a while and it wont be cheap...

i cant help but feel things actually got worse this time around... ati wont offer great price perf anymore cause nvidia has even less to compete with their mainstream parts, and the highend will be nvidia dominated as before but prices will probably be even higher than before... sigh...

omg ..sayya any chance you could pass on next week lotto numbers please ...just email them to me ......cant we wait till its out in the wild (ati 5xxx)before we start firing silly comments ....cmon

[jmke]

But does it not escape you all that 4850 launched at $200 and 4870@ $300, that is to say, these cards "branded" us with the notion that they're mid-ranged, Not high-end;

part of my argument is that it definitely did not escape me; they had to launch their 4800 series at those price points to sell; if their 5800 series offers better price/performance than NVIDIA, they will most definitely keep that trend; and since performance will go up, you can't have a working equation if the price doesn't go up also

that's why we need competition, because without it, we'll be paying $1000 again for a fast CPU and $700 for a good VGA card. Instead of being able to build a complete gaming rig for $700 as it is now

[strange|ife]

so there will be a 2GB 5870 at launch? or was that a 5850x2?

[Sh1tyMcGee]

so there will be a 2GB 5870 at launch? or was that a 5850x2?

honestly nothing has been confirmed, everything is all rumors, never been so close to launch with no concrete info, ATI must be really tight lipped about their new gem, lets hope the new driver team has made some improvements and fix things without breaking another like previous ati driver releases.

[Baron_Davis]

I hope they upgraded their drivers so that you can run something super sick like tri or quad 5870 X2, basically hexa or octa crossfire...man that would be the best news ever

[BenchZowner]

I hope they upgraded their drivers so that you can run something super sick like tri or quad 5870 X2, basically hexa or octa crossfire...man that would be the best news ever

LOL

[villa1n]

so there will be a 2GB 5870 at launch? or was that a 5850x2?

I d be interested in that as well, 4 TFlops single card, at the right price... remove the clutter from my antec 900 ^^ If its cooled properly.

I guess they know how to build tension.... I want to see what these have in store for us.

[initialised]

-Exactly, something not to be taken as is until Sept. 10..

Or until someone on here gets pre-release hardware...

But with a week to go and no proper leaks it doesn't look likely.

[blindbox]

Somebody here already has the cards initialised (of course, bounded by NDA). AMD is just being tight-lipped.

[labs23]

Somebody here already has the cards initialised (of course, bounded by NDA). AMD is just being tight-lipped.

Good, we should send PM to every friend we have in here. Who knows, one might give a reply, a hint and a teaser. J/K.

Seriously, its just within a week guys, and soon "You won't believe your eyes", per what AMD said.

[Chrono Detector]

Out with the specs already ATI, we're all dying to know.

At least ATI is being earlier this year than NVIDIA, and thats good. I wonder whats NVIDIA cooking up.

[Helloworld_98]

Out with the specs already ATI, we're all dying to know.

At least ATI is being earlier this year than NVIDIA, and thats good. I wonder whats NVIDIA cooking up.

Maybe not, Nvidia's press conference is on the same day as ATi's, so they're definitely trying to take a slice of the cake.

[Jamesrt2004]

this is dumb why argue about pricing we all know that there just having high prices for a few months cos they can... theyll be the only dx11 card and many OEM's and people will be like WOAAA NEW BEST THING....

then all of a sudden oh nvidia are releasing there cards... out with the x2 and a big price drop... its so obvious that this is going to happen .. just wait a couple months :/

[RejZoR]

399$ = 275€ = cheap to me .

In your dreams. It'll be more like 399$ = 399€...

[FischOderAal]

Maybe not, Nvidia's press conference is on the same day as ATi's, so they're definitely trying to take a slice of the cake.

Up to now it seems like ATI will be earlier to the market (and basically, that's nearly all we care about, isn't it?). What NVIDIA does appears as a act of desperation to me. "Hey, look over here! I won't be releasing new cards anytime soon, but when they arrive they will be xy% faster than the competitor's cards!" Better/wiser than just play the sitting duck and do nothing. Of course, this might work for all those who are not in dire need of an upgrade. But missing the holiday business definitely isn't good...

[saaya]

well thats the thing... if ati is first but the cards cost a lot, the time to market benefit might not work out too well and people will camp and wait for nvidia and intel... i remember several people making comments that they wont upgrade until larrabee is available and that was when intel had just anounced it lol... and others said the same about gt300... unless atis price/perf is tempting being first to market with dx11 might not make such a big diference... at least for end users... for system builders its everything im sure... ati must have loads of system integrator orders piling up