Lack of 'Xtreme' Keyboards on XtremeSystems

[Darth_Penguin]

question. who makes the second one? What model is it?

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...&pid=rf_se1700

[AndrewZorn]

yeah, same brand as you... same keys... better built case, standard layout (for better and worse) but no usb hub or detachable cable

you also lose a windows key with the hhkb if you use the dip to turn left windows key into modifier. not that id use a win key in games, i guess...

i care about the games so much but never play games...

[B.E.E.F.]

Datamancer, ClickyKeyboards.

WOW! Love the antique style keyboards! Got any mice to match???

[Serra]

Darn this thread! I was happily contemplating between a few other models, happy to take my time... and now that I looked at that elitekeyboards website and around a bit more, I'm suddenly torn between:

Filco Majestouch Tactile Click Enthusiast ($130):


Kinesis Advantage Pro (~$400)


The Filco has the Cherry MX blue's I personally prefer and obviously a huge price advantage, plus it doesn't look like it's from a 60's-era Russian cosmocraft. As I'm looking to go Dvorak though I am opting for the blacked-out model, and would probably be lame and order a sheet of stickers to go with it as I hate learning without any visual guides.

But the Kinesis has those sweet curved wells and straight key orientation that can help really take things to the next level, and comes with a frigging FOOT PEDAL that I could use to quickly convert one well to a number pad and back as necessary. Plus it's reportedly more ergonomic and you can get a model where the keys have both QWERTY and DVORAK printing on them. I'm not as big a fan of Cherry brown's, but I guess I could get used to them?

Dangit Andrew! Why did you have to start this thread and make me actually contemplate dropping $400 on a keyboard?

[SoulsCollective]

Heh. I've promised myself a Datamancer custom if/when funds appear. So. Damn. Awesome.

[AndrewZorn]

Darn this thread! I was happily contemplating between a few other models, happy to take my time... and now that I looked at that elitekeyboards website and around a bit more, I'm suddenly torn between:

Filco Majestouch Tactile Click Enthusiast ($130):

Kinesis Advantage Pro (~$400)

The Filco has the Cherry MX blue's I personally prefer and obviously a huge price advantage, plus it doesn't look like it's from a 60's-era Russian cosmocraft. As I'm looking to go Dvorak though I am opting for the blacked-out model, and would probably be lame and order a sheet of stickers to go with it as I hate learning without any visual guides.

But the Kinesis has those sweet curved wells and straight key orientation that can help really take things to the next level, and comes with a frigging FOOT PEDAL that I could use to quickly convert one well to a number pad and back as necessary. Plus it's reportedly more ergonomic and you can get a model where the keys have both QWERTY and DVORAK printing on them. I'm not as big a fan of Cherry brown's, but I guess I could get used to them?

Dangit Andrew! Why did you have to start this thread and make me actually contemplate dropping $400 on a keyboard?

i was looking at the browns because of the noise of blue, and i heard brown is a good halfway between blue and black in terms of games.

first, look into colemak if you havent started with dvorak. colemak is better, but not better enough to get existing dvorakkers to switch
also, blank keys are better for learning and using diff layouts. printed ones you feel compelled to switch... and looking at the keys, even out of frustration, hurts you. if you want a visual aid i would print the keymap and hang it above your monitor.

i dont really like the space age boards... something THAT radical might be novel and even better for your hands but gives you NO chance of using someome else's computer (and on that note, grab "portable colemak" or whatever is on their website, a prog you can run that doesnt install anything or change layout or require admin priv)

mind as well get a datahand if you are willing to go that far:

look at the 'keys'... mouse is integrated... NO real movement

started the same way for me too. saw elitekeyboards, the notorious "mechanical keyboard guide"... then posted on geekhack looking for advice. went from laughing at a $244 keyboard with only 60 keys to... actually about to buy one...

ALSO yeah i started with the filco and could barely justify the 130 but eventually got worked up to a topre... here is the 10 page thread where I havent even decided yet, in case you need some advice:
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?p=110693

i just realize that i with most other people can deal without caps locke, dedicated F1-F12, Home/End cluster, numpad, arrows... again they all exist on hhkb but through combos
so getting rid of all that makes the hhkb just look sooo nice, just wish it had ctrl in the traditional spot, or at least something there

the funny part is the first post, advising just to spend $370ish and get both, is probably the truth. the guys on that forum seem to have more money in keyboards than their entire computers, a few giving me advice actually OWNED all the keyboards in my comparison.

[Serra]

first, look into colemak if you havent started with dvorak. colemak is better, but not better enough to get existing dvorakkers to switch
also, blank keys are better for learning and using diff layouts. printed ones you feel compelled to switch... and looking at the keys, even out of frustration, hurts you. if you want a visual aid i would print the keymap and hang it above your monitor.

i dont really like the space age boards... something THAT radical might be novel and even better for your hands but gives you NO chance of using someome else's computer (and on that note, grab "portable colemak" or whatever is on their website, a prog you can run that doesnt install anything or change layout or require admin priv)

I think I'll stick with Dvorak, but thanks. My reasoning is twofold - I do have some Dvorak experience, and I have a belief that if any alternative has a realistic chance of ever overtaking QWERTY, it will be it's closest runner up. Thus although I might otherwise have gone Colemak, I must go dvorak out of principle. For the blank keys (assuming I went with the Filco) I think my plan going forward would be to order the stickers (which, I know, is lame) and strip them off keys as I get used to the layout again (I was never 100% on dvorak). I know blank letter typing forces it on you a bit faster, but I would be using this as a work keyboard so on occasion I might not have the time to fight with it.

The idea of the Kinesis ruining me for anything else had crossed my mind, and is somewhat of a concern. Fortunately my work involves local travel, which requires a laptop, and I enjoy using a laptop when watching TV... so I at least have another source of "regular" keyboard use. Whether the shifting between them would reduce my potential effectiveness on a single platform remains to be seen. That foot pedal that lets you turn one set of keys to numbers is pretty tempting though (I do a fair amount of number work).

Ultimately my main driver is the ability to type faster. My wife does not understand this as I can already hum along at 90wpm with accuracy and peak over 100 on somewhat sub-optimal boards (I thank an addiction to text-based gaming in my formative years), but I can tell when I am going at it that I have pretty well hit the ninety-fifth percentile in terms of my personal physical ability and I find it frustrating. Of course, the fear of losing my QWERTY speed and not gaining it back/exceeding it in an alternative key layout or alternative keyboard (ie. the Kinesis) is definitely there as I have no intentions of addicting myself to text-based gaming again.

[SoulsCollective]

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

Don't you just sometimes feel an overwhelming urge to return to Flood Control Dam #3 and say hello to the sailors there?

[M31]

Some of those small footprint keyboards look cute, but if you are used to typing on a normal size keyboard, they can really screw up your touch typing, at least I find so.

I can type pretty fast and accurately on regular sized keyboards when I want to, but going to my smaller lap top keyboard I really have to slow down.

I've seen the keyboards with blank keys before too, how much of a pose is that But its true, once you have been using a keyboard for many years, you really don't have to look down at the key letters or numbers much, but I don't think I'd go that far.

I've got a couple of Logitech G15's and a G19 and also a G13, they are my idea of Xtreme keyboards, though I realise they are not everyone's idea of that

I like others tried the older Microsoft split ergonomic keyboards, but they dont seem to have taken off, ugly things too ... IMHO.

[AndrewZorn]

Some of those small footprint keyboards look cute, but if you are used to typing on a normal size keyboard, they can really screw up your touch typing, at least I find so.

I can type pretty fast and accurately on regular sized keyboards when I want to, but going to my smaller lap top keyboard I really have to slow down.

I've seen the keyboards with blank keys before too, how much of a pose is that But its true, once you have been using a keyboard for many years, you really don't have to look down at the key letters or numbers much, but I don't think I'd go that far.

I've got a couple of Logitech G15's and a G19 and also a G13, they are my idea of Xtreme keyboards, though I realise they are not everyone's idea of that

I like others tried the older Microsoft split ergonomic keyboards, but they dont seem to have taken off, ugly things too ... IMHO.

it is small footprint but the keys are the same size. it takes away stuff that has nothing to do with normal touch typing and makes it more possible to touch type them by keeping everything within reach of the home row.

think of the benefit of a keyboard 8" or so shorter than a normal keyboard, or more like 1" shorter than a G15... how close you could keep the mouse to the right of the keyboard, desk look, being able to take board with you.

the blank keys i like because it looks cooler/more uniform, i dont need the labels anyway and it saves me from having to rearrange them, and it further stops others from using my comp

i have a G15 myself and it is novel and within the last couple months i finally utilized the LCD screen, but it isnt close in terms of quality to these.

[Serra]

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

Don't you just sometimes feel an overwhelming urge to return to Flood Control Dam #3 and say hello to the sailors there?

It Is Pitch Dark by MC Frontalot

Nah, I have never actually played Zork. I was on the MUD train. I additively played a Diku-based MUD called Dawn of Time (DoT) [anyone who has ever played this codebase, PM me], and check in on it's successor on occasion. As a blatent plug for it, anyone who wants to can connect to darkeningsun.org, port 5678.. just send me a PM first and I'll run you through the basics of this particular MUD and will make sure someone good takes you through the in-game learning steps.

[M31]

it is small footprint but the keys are the same size. it takes away stuff that has nothing to do with normal touch typing and makes it more possible to touch type them by keeping everything within reach of the home row.

think of the benefit of a keyboard 8" or so shorter than a normal keyboard, or more like 1" shorter than a G15... how close you could keep the mouse to the right of the keyboard, desk look, being able to take board with you.

True, but I can get my G13 even closer to my mouse if that's what you mean, gaming wise? Just shove my G19 or G15 out of the way

Seriously, apart from the G13 ... I really need a full sized qwerty with built in num pad.

the blank keys I like because it looks cooler/more uniform, i dont need the labels anyway and it saves me from having to rearrange them, and it further stops others from using my comp

It does look cool, but it wont stop others on your blank keyboard if they can touch type as well as you

i have a G15 myself and it is novel and within the last couple months i finally utilized the LCD screen, but it isnt close in terms of quality to these.

I'm only teasing you mate, what you are doing is indeed very extreme, many folk condemn me for my extreme flight simulation controllers and idea's

What I'm saying is ... its good to discuss anything extreme in Computer enthusiast circles and we should all learn from each other.

I'd like to own one of those black blank keyboards and just see how well I could type

Hmmm, just thought, with my G19 ... I can have any colour key I want ... what if I choose black so its the same as its black keys?

BRB ... gotta go try this

[M31]

LOL ... you can still just make out the etched key letters in a lightly lit room, no pose value points for me then

But does anyone remember this?



Does anyone even remember E-Mule?

That keyboard did eventually go on sale fairly recently as I re-call, and was about as much use as an ash tray on a Motorcycle, well over £1400 in the UK?

I feel sorry for the developers, they must have poured millions into it ... seriously, development like that does not come easy.

LOL.

[AndrewZorn]

True, but I can get my G13 even closer to my mouse if that's what you mean, gaming wise? Just shove my G19 or G15 out of the way

Seriously, apart from the G13 ... I really need a full sized qwerty with built in num pad.

I'm only teasing you mate, what you are doing is indeed very extreme, many folk condemn me for my extreme flight simulation controllers and idea's

What I'm saying is ... its good to discuss anything extreme in Computer enthusiast circles and we should all learn from each other.

I'd like to own one of those black blank keyboards and just see how well I could type

Hmmm, just thought, with my G19 ... I can have any colour key I want ... what if I choose black so its the same as its black keys?

BRB ... gotta go try this

is the G19 that customizeable? i wish my G9 mouse would ACTUALLY let me choose whatever possible color i wanted, just not the predefined "over 200" combinations of blue and green.

It does look cool, but it wont stop others on your blank keyboard if they can touch type as well as you

+colemak... i think not... they could not even hunt and peck
but thats not a real concern
but it is neat

EDIT and yeah they are still for sale, very few produced, $1500+...
its not as good looking as the original mock-up, the screens are tiny and centered (looks like what it is, a screen on a key, not a keyboard of screens)
but apparently they nailed the customization aspects

[YMAA]

Sticking with my Razer Tarantula until it dies. I love the key action on it...the travel of a notebook with the key size of a desktop. Soooo comfortable to type on.

[M31]

is the G19 that customizeable? i wish my G9 mouse would ACTUALLY let me choose whatever possible color i wanted, just not the predefined "over 200" combinations of blue and green.

Now you are being deeply sarcastic Thats OK, it has the full pallete as far as I understand ... but so does your mouse already? so that's fun and cool, right ... LOL

[[XC] Synthetickiller]

I <3 my ibm trackpoint since I never have to move my hands to control a mouse. Its not as hardcore as these, but then again, I HATE mice.

I can actually play FPS better on a trackpoint than with a mouse any day of the week. Go figure.

Those are some awesome, albeit, expensive keyboards.

[RAW-Raptor22]

i know, and it will sound like blasphemy, but i dont like clicky clacky ibm keyboard type stuff.

i think a lot of the appeal is nostalgia, not actually the way it works or feels. not everyone/completely, but just 'a lot'.

EDIT but 2003? is that even mechanical? using an old membrane would be an example of the above. i know my 2003 keyboard was nothing special.

This keyboard is an old Gateway 2000 (early 1998, before they dropped the "2000" name) model, and they keys are actually very quiet for a mechanical board. I like the feedback, I also have a Dell Quietkey thats very similar.

[AndrewZorn]

Now you are being deeply sarcastic Thats OK, it has the full pallete as far as I understand ... but so does your mouse already? so that's fun and cool, right ... LOL

no im not... i thought the g19 had like 3 colors, but not full custom,
and the g9 advertises "OVER 200!" colors but really just unnoticeably different shades of red, pink, green, and blue. no white...

[M31]

no im not... i thought the g19 had like 3 colors, but not full custom,
and the g9 advertises "OVER 200!" colors but really just unnoticeably different shades of red, pink, green, and blue. no white...

Over 200? wow!!! I like dat mouse already

Oh, OK.

In that case, the G19 offers lots of lovely pretty colours too then, I'm just not sure how many more?

LOL

[M31]

no im not... i thought the g19 had like 3 colors, but not full custom,
and the g9 advertises "OVER 200!" colors but really just unnoticeably different shades of red, pink, green, and blue. no white...

White? OMG, thats incredible

Wait a moment ... wait just a cotten picking moment there, Muskey!!!

I'm sure my G19 can do white text too, as well as display white illuminated keys too?, what I'm now going to type in white text on a white background is a famous poem by the famous poet, Arthur Two Sheds Jackson ... if you can scroll down and see The End, then this test has been a success













































The End.

Hey, it worked

[B.E.E.F.]

no im not... i thought the g19 had like 3 colors, but not full custom,
and the g9 advertises "OVER 200!" colors but really just unnoticeably different shades of red, pink, green, and blue. no white...

Technically white isn't a color. It's a shade, so they can get away with that.

[Rucker]

Not only this but just the feeling of the keys, how quickly the depress/raise, and how little play the keys have. I've been using my Steelseries 7G for over a year now, and everytime i have to use a membrane keyboard for work I actually feel slightly disgusted.

I can't stand the 7G. Mine is sitting on a shelf in the box. I prefer membrane over scissor keys, for sure. And since I'm the HP commodity manager for aftermarket keyboards, I get to try a lot of different ones.

[Machinus]

What makes these better than an eclipse? I have I and II and I love them.

[Xoulz]

I have the Déck Legend keyboard (link HERE).

Made with Cherry switches and is phenomenal. I had a few Filco's, but wanted illumination and don't regret a cent ($169).


I'll post pictures when I get a chance.