Results 1 to 21 of 21

Thread: Silver as a Biocide in water cooling

  1. #1
    Xtreme Member jetroho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Sunny Fla
    Posts
    157

    Silver as a Biocide in water cooling

    Hi all ,
    I hope this can help clear up some / most of the questions about using silver in distilled as a biocide / antifouling agent .

    About me . I don't post much ( usually find the answers to my questions using the search function ) so you don't know me .
    I've been water cooling since the Athlon T'Bird days . Been using distilled and silver for five years . I have never had anything grow , corrode or gunk up since using distilled with silver .

    I will tell you my experiences with D/W and silver and use some quotes from Innova Materials , IonArmour Division . ( I am not a rep of this company , just used their site for for info )

    How does silver work ?
    When added to water , silver releases silver ions into the water . These ions kill and prevent biological growth by :
    " quote "
    " inhibit microbes via multiple pathways: ions prevent microbe proliferation, disable microbe metabolism, and hinder microbe membrane function. The combined effect is to prevent microbes from multiplying and surviving."
    " quote "
    " protective properties have been known across cultures around the world for millenia. In fact, Aristotle advised Alexander the Great in 335 BC to have his troops store water in silver vessels to prevent fouling that occurred with earthenware containers. The Vikings would line the hulls of their longboats and ships with strings of silver to prevent fouling. Even the ancient Egyptians were aware of silver's sterilizing powers."

    Is this " Silver water " toxic / harmful ?
    No , nada ,zip :
    " quote "
    " are FDA listed and EPA registered for a broad range of uses, including food and water contact. Unlike antibiotics, there is no evidence suggesting that active ingredients used for IonArmour® protection lead to resistant strains of microbes.
    Silver-based antimicrobials are an example of an ingredient used by IonArmour® to provide excellent antimicrobial properties while remaining safe and natural. The power of these antimicrobials stems from the powers of naturally safe silver—the same silver that has been plating silverware and jewelry for centuries. "
    That being said I do not think you should drink your loop water . The copper , lead and tin that the water will pick up are toxic and would more than likely taste like shiznit .

    What kind of silver to use ?
    Use .999 pure silver . This can be found as bar , strip , round etc at online precious metal stores . Most any jewelry store also has silver available too . Banana Power offers True Silver plated barbs and compression fittings .
    Sterling does not contain enough pure silver to do the job . Plus its mixed with other stuff . I tried sterling . While it did not work very well as a biocide , it did not cause any loop issues at all .
    Silver solder does not work either . It is only 8 to 10 % silver .

    How much silver to use ?
    The amount of silver ions in the water is measured in parts per million . I really do not think it matters . As long as the piece will stay in a hose or res without moving you should be good .
    What I have in use now .
    These 3 PC's have either side windows or are open sided . They all see the sun at least 3 hours a day .
    1 iandh kill coil , around 4 months old , as shiny as new . Water is as clear as day one .
    2 loops with XSPC res tops . With one 10 gram bar in each res . I choose 10 grams because the water movement in the res will not move that heavy a piece . These bars are approx .5 x 1 x .1 inches in size . The loops are 10 months old The silver pieces look like new . Same as the water . This silver has been used for five years in water loops .
    1 loop with 4 banana True Silver 3/8 barb fittings . The water looks like new . Can't see the fittings . Loop is 3 months old . If you look at the size of the plated surface of these fittings two probably have around the same surface area as my 10 gram bars . I figured four barbs would more than plenty . I plan to take this loop down in three months to look at these fittings .

    How often to change the water ?
    One of the best parts about water and silver is the longer the two are together . The more antibiologic they become . The silver keeps releasing ions into the water so it becomes stronger with time . I have left a loop together for almost two years . Out of guilt I took the loop and blocks apart and found nothing to clean out . Unless you use dyes . I would think a year between water changes would be more than ok . If you use dyes probably every 3 months would fine . I have never used dye so I could be wrong in saying three months . Your previous experince with dye gunking , color loss or whatever should be your guide on this .

    Do I need to add anything else to the water ?
    In a word . NO
    If you are not using mixed metals then there is absolutely no reason to add anything other than fresh distilled to top up the system .
    If you are using mixed metals . Then you need a corrosion inhibitor . Still the silver can not hurt a thing .

    Will the silver disappear ?
    Not really . The silver looses ions . It would take eons to disappear .

    If you want to find out more . Google " silver as a biocide "

    Thanks for reading.............j
    Last edited by jetroho; 08-03-2009 at 08:46 AM. Reason: correct iandh's name spelling
    Gigabyte EP45 UD3P bios F4
    QX9650 C0 L739A778
    4X2 G'Skill 8000 bpq
    under water......clocks to come

  2. #2
    Xtreme Enthusiast exemay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    754
    Very Nice, informative post there!

    great job
    Quote Originally Posted by kinghong1970 View Post
    yea.. i need help... seriously......last time i went to the bathroom, it seems that the male has the pecker that pokes the female, right?

    i'm confused...


    Quote Originally Posted by lennox View Post
    holy cow do you really run 1/2" tubing without clamps? that's like banging a prostitute without a condom!
    Lian Li V2000B Special Water cut: DFI LanParty X48 LT T2R : Q6600 @3.21 ghtz : 2x Samsung Spinpoint F1 32mb cache 1tb HDD's : HD 4870x2 : 4GB domminator : Swiftech GTZ block : PA120.3 : DCC 18w res top : DCC 18w res top : EK FC 4870x2 :

    Current Project:
    http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=214295

  3. #3
    Xtreme Cruncher brinox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Overland Park, KS
    Posts
    468
    excellent information, thanks for posting! i always wondered how silver worked more in-depth'ly.

    as for the heavier blocks used to keep the liquid flow from moving the silver, i ran into that problem with iandh's killcoils as well, so i just mangled one into a long oval, flat as possible and put it in the bottom of my micro res. it hasnt moved a bit this time.
    for the glory of bardob!



  4. #4
    Chasing After Diety NaeKuh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Absolutely Speachless :O
    Posts
    11,929
    in short it prohibits ATP synthesis by binding to things and blocking the process.

    And u guys know how vital that is.

    Yeah, i love silver, u guys see now why i made a big rant on having it available for us a while back ago.
    Nadeshiko: i7 990 12GB DDR3 eVGA Classified *In Testing... Jealous? *
    Miyuki: W3580 6GB DDR3 P6T-Dlx
    Lind: Dual Gainestown 3.07
    Sammy: Dual Yonah Sossoman cheerleader. *Sammy-> Lind.*

    [12:37] skinnee: quit helping me procrastinate block reviews, you asshat. :p
    [12:38] Naekuh: i love watching u get the firing squad on XS
    Its my fault.. and no im not sorry about it either.

  5. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    675
    thanks alot for this information, it's exactly what i was looking for. i really appreciate it.

  6. #6
    Xtreme Addict iandh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    1,489
    Nice post!

    Active ionization is necessary in systems where there is a continuous flow of water, passive ionization isn't enough to maintain a proper ion concentration. As stated above, passive ionization is great in PC water cooling loops because they are closed systems. Most professional systems actually use copper-silver ionization, which by lucky coincidence is exactly what we create in a water loop with silver biocide and copper waterblock bases.

    In my spare time I've been working on an inline active copper-silver ionization system that runs from a 12v molex plug. It's intended for use with bong coolers, where there is a real risk from airborne bacteria, like those that cause Legionairre's disease. Most chemical biocides aren't appropriate in evaporative cooling systems because they are unsafe to breathe in and would have to be constantly added to the coolant, so active copper-silver ionization is perfect in that application.
    Asus G73- i7-740QM, Mobility 5870, 6Gb DDR3-1333, OCZ Vertex II 90Gb

  7. #7
    Xtreme Member jetroho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Sunny Fla
    Posts
    157
    @exemay , @brinox , @zeropluszero thanks for your kind words !!
    @NaeKuh ,
    I saw your post " big rant " on silver when you posted it . Its a shame that these topics / posts slip into the darkness so quickly . The new guys and the alot of the more experienced have no idea that such an elegant / simple soulution exists . To me whats extra sad is all the premix companies have con-vinced a lot people that you have to put a ton of junk in your loops to keep the water from going " out of control " .
    @iandh
    I tried a bong cooler years ago . I built one right after I saw plans posted . I could not believe how it cooled . More unbelievable was how fast a forest of crap would grow in the damn thing . I started with plain water in the system . Then added antifreeze to it until the forrest stopped . The A/F killed the cooling and forrest . Then I noticed that everything around the bong was getting sort of an oily film on it . I never thought of the evaporation coating everything in a room ....doh . Then it dawned on me why I had been having all kind of nasal / respiratory probs . Doh x10 . Best of luck on your active ionizer it would be a blessing .
    ( sorry bout getting your name wrong in the OP , corrected )
    j
    Gigabyte EP45 UD3P bios F4
    QX9650 C0 L739A778
    4X2 G'Skill 8000 bpq
    under water......clocks to come

  8. #8
    Xtreme Member Aphellyon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    171
    Great post.

    I'll be putting together my first loops soon and was wondering about this. Guess I'll go with silver.

  9. #9
    Xtreme Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Snohomish, Wahington
    Posts
    101
    John at Jab-Tech told me he is going to start carrying pure silver for making your own kill coil loops at around $4 each, maybe by end of week. From what he said, his are going to be longer and heavier than petras- 2.11 grams verses 1.3 grams at petras.
    Last edited by kahuna321; 08-03-2009 at 02:18 PM.

  10. #10
    Xtreme Member 0xdeadbeef's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Sthlm
    Posts
    269
    Thanks jetroho, very informative and useful post. It's bookmarked for my next rebuild.

  11. #11
    Xtreme Cruncher Duh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    L.A. ( Latin America)/ 4socket wannabe
    Posts
    2,748
    thanks mate for the info!
    "Study hard my young friend"[/B].
    ---------------------------------------
    Woody: It's not a laser! It's a... [sighs in frustration]

  12. #12
    Xtreme Member jetroho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Sunny Fla
    Posts
    157
    @Aphellyon , Thanks and good luck with your first build
    @Kahuna321 , Thanks for the tip . John is a great guy
    @ Oxdeadbeef and Duh , Again Thanks
    I've been sponging info and tips from XS for years . I thought it would be a great idea to give something back . I'll be posting more stuff in the future . Hope to be an asset
    j
    Gigabyte EP45 UD3P bios F4
    QX9650 C0 L739A778
    4X2 G'Skill 8000 bpq
    under water......clocks to come

  13. #13
    Chasing After Diety NaeKuh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Absolutely Speachless :O
    Posts
    11,929
    Quote Originally Posted by iandh View Post
    In my spare time I've been working on an inline active copper-silver ionization system that runs from a 12v molex plug. It's intended for use with bong coolers, where there is a real risk from airborne bacteria, like those that cause Legionairre's disease. Most chemical biocides aren't appropriate in evaporative cooling systems because they are unsafe to breathe in and would have to be constantly added to the coolant, so active copper-silver ionization is perfect in that application.
    Or u can just add a 9W UV sterilizer right b4 the spray nozzle.

    9W UV will kill just about anything.
    Nadeshiko: i7 990 12GB DDR3 eVGA Classified *In Testing... Jealous? *
    Miyuki: W3580 6GB DDR3 P6T-Dlx
    Lind: Dual Gainestown 3.07
    Sammy: Dual Yonah Sossoman cheerleader. *Sammy-> Lind.*

    [12:37] skinnee: quit helping me procrastinate block reviews, you asshat. :p
    [12:38] Naekuh: i love watching u get the firing squad on XS
    Its my fault.. and no im not sorry about it either.

  14. #14
    Xtreme Member Newblar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    los angeles
    Posts
    391
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphellyon View Post
    Great post.

    I'll be putting together my first loops soon and was wondering about this. Guess I'll go with silver.
    indeed
    i just ordered my first wcing setup and went with silver coils at j-t
    was confused about a few things but this thread cleared it up
    Seti@Home Optimized Apps
    Heat
    Quote Originally Posted by aNoN_ View Post
    pretty low score, why not higher? kingpin gets 40k in 3dmark05 and 33k in 06 and 32k in vantage performance...

  15. #15
    Xtreme Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    In a van down by the river
    Posts
    852
    When ships were built of wood they eventually learned to cover the hull with sheets of copper to stop growth (or slow it). Anti-fouling paint for boats contains copper.

  16. #16
    Xtreme Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    156
    Awesome, thanks for posting this... i run distilled and silver (only) in my loop, and have never heard a good explanation for why it actually works!

  17. #17
    Xtreme Batrachian MrToad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Eastbourne, UK
    Posts
    1,368
    Jumped on this boat for my last build too... Silver tygon + kill coils + a couple of drops of PT nuke for good measure (just in case some organisms are silver friendly... if there are bacteria that live on sulphur who knows...)

    If you look carefully at the reservoirs you can see the killcoils (not a great photographer me )

    Quote Originally Posted by fart_plume View Post
    First loops are like first sex, all hands and thumbs till you figure out what goes where, then it's what ever works best for you.

  18. #18
    Registered User SmugBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    18

    Silver Barbs and different medals

    I am a fan of distilled water, used it in my last 2 builds years ago. I also used Glycol and Antifreeze and some UV dye. Always had to change the water after a couple months.

    I have been reading here about just distilled water and a kill coil. Instead of using a coil would Bitspower True Silver barbs and fittings work?

    Barbs: http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/big1trsi1fi.html

    Compression Fittings: http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/bitrsi1cofif.html

    Also

    What are people using to combat multiple medals? The loop I am thinking of will have copper and nickel and what ever pump(s) I decide on.

  19. #19
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    8
    Hi jetroho
    Really nice post I´m reading up on my first WC build at the moment and found this very helpful

    These 3 PC's have either side windows or are open sided . They all see the sun at least 3 hours a day .
    Just wondering about this. Does it affect the performance if the WC loop is in the sun or not? anything to do with the silver?

  20. #20
    Xtreme Cruncher usz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Poland
    Posts
    55
    I really like using silver in my loops as well, but instead of buying kill coils at WC shops, I prefer getting silver sheets at jewelcrafter supply shopps. For example I can buy there 10mm x 10mm x 1mm 999 silver sheet for 25 EUR, cut it and shape into coils myself. This way I end up with alot bigger exposure area having to pay fraction of price.

  21. #21
    Xtreme Mentor PatRaceTin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Bangkok,Thailand (DamHot)
    Posts
    2,685
    i will buy some silver coil soon
    i5-2500K + Asus P8P67 Deluxe + Mushkin Blackline 8GB - 2133C10 (Hynix BFR) + Asus HD7970 DirectCU2 TOP + Samsung S22A300B
    EK SupremeHF + EK VGA HF + Swiftech 655 + XSPC ResTop + BlackIce GTX360 + LamptronFC2 + NMB-MAT 130CFMx3 Antec 1200W OC Version
    Macbook Pro 15" Late 2011 (i7 2760QM + HD 6770M)
    Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014 Edition) P601 3G , LG Nexus 5 (D821) LTE
    [history system]80286 80386 80486 Cyrix K5 Pentium133 Pentium II Duron1G Athlon1G E2180 E3300 E5300 E7200 E8200 E8400 E8500 E8600 Q9550 QX6800 X3-720BE i7-920 i3-530 i5-750 Semp140@x2 955BE X4-B55 Q6600 i5-2500K i7-2600K X4-B60 X6-1055T FX-8120

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •