[Review] PrimoChill Typhoon III

[faster3200]

Great review, skinnee. Now I'm definitely going to set up the second loop on my TIII.

It is a bit confusing showing the sum of the two loops as a separate bar on the chart, took me a while to realize what it was saying. And I'm still puzzling as to whether it's a fair representation - since none of the individual blocks have this combined flowrate going through them. (Not trying to take away from the performance of the TIII at all, just not wanting to give the cynics anything to snipe at).

+1 .

This is an absolutely insane top. This has to be one of the biggest changes to the WCing world I can remember.

[skinnee]

Thanks Everyone!

Links are fixed...thats what I get for manually converting HTML into BBcode @ 3:30 in the morning.

[rambler358]

That is pretty amazing what the T3 can accomplish. Excellent work putting all the data together.

A shootout between the T3 and the XSPC Dual DDC Res has to be in order now!

[DeathWalking]

What would happen if you used both inlets/outlets on the same loop (with Y-splitters)? Could you conceivably get those monster flowrates on one loop?

[bluehaze]

Calling the loop flow 3.47 and having that big number there is a little misleading - I would have put that bar in grey behind each of the individual loop flowrates.

but still great performance nonetheless, nice to have an innovative engineer at the design front of our hobby

I think it is misleading as well, it's comparing two loops total flow to 1 loop. However I believe skinnee said in the other thread he is going to put up a test vs one of the other tops with a Y coming out of it with both loops dumping back into two ports on a different res. That should be a more fair apples to apples comparison, right now we have apples vs oranges.

And yep it is nice to see some innovation in WCing for sure, thanks to Boxgods and thanks to skinnee as well for the hard work

[BoxGods]

is there going to be a black faceplate for one of these? Im shallow and I like the XSPC dually D5 pump resevroir setup,but it seems the T3 provides better performance just wish it wanst all CLEAR on my drive bays...yeah im shallow im saying it again.

Yes, there is a billet aluminum top coming that will be available in brushed black and silver anno, as well as polished to a chrome finish.

What would happen if you used both inlets/outlets on the same loop (with Y-splitters)? Could you conceivably get those monster flowrates on one loop?

All kinds of cool possibilities

I think it is misleading as well, it's comparing two loops total flow to 1 loop. However I believe skinnee said in the other thread he is going to put up a test vs one of the other tops with a Y coming out of it with both loops dumping back into two ports on a different res. That should be a more fair apples to apples comparison, right now we have apples vs oranges.

And yep it is nice to see some innovation in WCing for sure, thanks to Boxgods and thanks to skinnee as well for the hard work

Thanks! He does say System Flow rates though and I do not think it is apples to oranges. When your testing a product for a review your pretty much obligated to test it as its marketed and sold. Like I said on your other post, does that mean that he then has to add Y''s to both the T3 loops for quad loops? Obviously the T3 can drive them just fine. It sounds like I am arguing with you I know, but I am looking at it from Skinnee's perspective as a product reviewer more then I am as the guy who designed it. I wrote reviews at boxGods for several years and "reviewed as marketed and sold" is important. It's like saying, if you take the Detroit, cut the helix deeper, double the outlet, hook it up to mini reservoir with two ports, then add a bigger reservoir with two inlet ports to the back of the detroit and reshape the inlet...I Bet it would do just as well as the T3.

Skinnee, if that IS the case, no worries from me at all as I know what T3 will do through the pump vrs external loops so loop up some Y's if you want and post up the results.

What exact setup for the Y's are you thinking of as there are several options.

[bluehaze]

It's like saying, if you take the Detroit, cut the helix deeper, double the outlet, hook it up to mini reservoir with two ports, then add a bigger reservoir with two inlet ports to the back of the detroit and reshape the inlet...I Bet it would do just as well as the T3.

What exact setup for the Y's are you thinking of as there are several options.

Well no, I was just saying stick a Y on the outlet of the pump top, it's not quite the same as all that As long as you have a res with multiple ports you only need to add 1 Y everything else is pretty much the same.

I'm going to try it with a DDC and see what happens, I have to order some parts first though.

[Darth_Penguin]

I am soo tempted to sell my brand new DDC and XSPC restop to run this. I am limited to three 5 1/4 bays though and already have a DVD burner and an Aquaero fan controller. ARGHH

[Chumbucket843]

this must be stickied.

[Hondacity]

nice

thanks skinnee

[NaeKuh]

man i HATE the D5...

i Seriously Hate u Skinnee... making me go back to the D5.

Bastard for that... give me back one of my D5's.

[Hondacity]

wait i'm abit slow....

3.47gpm with 1pump?

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

wait i'm abit slow....

3.47gpm with 1pump?

the sum of the flow in each of the 2 loops is 3.47gpm

[bluehaze]

wait i'm abit slow....

3.47gpm with 1pump?

That is the misleading part Just adding two loops doubles the flow rate. That is why IMO it's not a fair test unless you add a Y coming out of the single pump tops and run two loops off them as well. In that case the total flow for the single tops would also at the very least be doubled bringing them more inline with the T3's numbers.

I don't want to take anything away from skinnee's test, I know he's gone to alot of trouble here, Nor do I want to take anything away from Boxgods and the T3 it is innovative and convenient. It's just hard for me to see all these people looking at the tests and coming away thinking they need to sell thier DDC's and go out and buy a T3 and a D5. Because in all reality it's not going to make any difference as far as temps are concerned and I think they might actually end up with worse temps switching from ddc to d5.

[Manicdan]

i also kinda agree that adding the numbers together is misleading. just cause the pump is pushing through 2-3x the water, does not mean each component sees those increases.

looking at the results of test one, the other options returned 1.39 to 1.48 GPM, the T3 gave the top loop 1.49 GPM and the bottom loop 1.98 GPM. so we have a 1% to 42% gains depending on component and comparison
Math: (1.49/1.48=1%) and (1.98/1.39=42%)

if possible i would post average GPM, not total (its honestly the same as saying half of the serial loop is seeing 1.39 and the other half is also seeing 1.39, and adding them together)

the T3 has the unique ability to offset some of the restriction, so your high restriction parts, do not bring down everything else in the system, that is what gives it the bonus, we should make sure we understand how to interpret that. what the GPM is at the pump does not equal what the blocks/rads will see, but that is what we care about.

for proof, i would like to see a very simple setup, where you have a high restriction cpu block, and large rad, then use the T3 to take the rad off the cpu loop and see if the temperature drops.

EDIT: lol, i posted 4 minutes to late and now look like i copied bluehaze

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

So Seriously, who is going to make the typhoon CPU block with 2 chambers and 2 inlets and outlets? I envision EK supreme style with a wider micro channel matrix

[Manicdan]

i feel a very nice kit coming

[asmat]

arghhh...

to spend or not to spend..

beautiful review

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

I am designing above mentioned block as we speak, finished the base, working on the top.

[bluehaze]

So Seriously, who is going to make the typhoon CPU block with 2 chambers and 2 inlets and outlets? I envision EK supreme style with a wider micro channel matrix

It seems like that's where the real gains would occur to an extent as the cooler the water hitting the block the lower the temps are going to be and having two loops into the block would allow twice as much water to hit the block before being heated. I think the real problem is getting 4 fittings on a block, it's already challenging to get 2 3/4" fittings on one block

[jollyjoker]

Great review. I want to buy one but i need to save the money .

[skinnee]

Okay, so you guys are biting on the low hanging argument, which on the surface looks to be a fair argument...but you have to look at the design of the T3 to see why its a flawed argument. And once I move my lab to the new room in the house, I'll loop up the same loops and add nylon Y's (I'm not buying $30 BP Y's) and show you the numbers to end the debate.

I tried to explain this in the review, but apparently did not do it well enough. The flow rates achieved with the T3's dual loop capability are not just because it has two inlets and outlets, the impeller intake is very different from a D5 with Detroit Thermo or EK top. The suction side of the D5 can only pull so much water...here is how I explained it in the review...

So now we have increased the amount of water the D5 can push out with deeper draw and a larger outlet, and even given it a place to go that helps regulate (and maintain some of) the pressure. Again, you don't have to be an engineer to know that if more water is being pushed out then you need to draw more water in through the inlet or you starve the pump and a nosy neighbor calls pump protective services on you. Feeding the inlet is a large "tank" that is, in turn, fed by the inlets on the back of the T3 that you connect your loop or loops to. The problem is that the inlet diameter is precisely matched to the impeller in the D5 and any change in diameter kills performance. An area that has long been considered the biggest limiting factor on gaining any more performance out of the D5. At this point the discussion turns to laminar boundary layers and feed angles and stuff that Vapor and the engineering types wax on about at length. Fortunately for most of you, I barely understand it, so you do not have to read my poor attempt at explaining it. BoxGods tried to explain it in layman's terms for me by saying:

"Although water is not compressible in the very limited pressure ranges we are working in, it CAN be redirected and moved in a more efficient manner similar to a venturi. I actually got the idea to try it from an article by Martin (from Martin's Liquid Labs =)) where he suggested (amazingly based just on observation) that although the impeller on the D5 was obviously optimized for maximum efficiency, the inlet feed angle didn't seem to be. In simplified terms this means that although the inlet diameter and the impeller are matched for efficiency, the perpendicular inlet angle dictated by the tubing type fitting is actually pretty bad."

To think of this a different way, think of a D5 with Detroit top with Y's at the inlet at outlet--opposing Y's. Now look at the Typhoon III the same way, only move those Y's into the pump head and think of an X instead of opposing Y's. The pump head itself is the opposing Y's, in order to achieve this the pump head has to not only be able to output more volume, but intake has to increase as well. In order to boost the intake you have two options, both of which require tweaks to the inlet. The two options are to attach that pump head to a reservoir, so the pump can pull as much water as it needs or you add dual inlets right before the pump head. The Typhoon III went the reservoir route combining two WC loop components in one, a better design choice IMO.

So yes, the Typhoon III is different, no other pumping product is designed the way the BoxGods did it. Trying to compare any serial or Y parallel loop is going to raise intial reaction of an apples to oranges comparison...but how the hell do you test and compare something that wasn't a possibility before? That last little nugget there is what took so long on the testing and review...I battled back and forth on how the heck to properly test the Typhoon III in order to show the capability and performance that was unattainable before. Again, I will test the Y's just so numbers will be available and the debate will end. However, I need something from all of you, once the numbers are release can we put the issue to bed? I need to get this backlog I've accumulated taken care of.

[sinticfury]

I just ordered two today for my rigs. Hope they will do good. Going out to pick up up right now. WILL POST PICS AND VIDEO OF UNBOXING IF PEOPLE REQUEST.

BTW what do you suggest how I should run my dual loop.

Ive got to have my CPU, and two GPU blocks and a future NB/SB block included. This is for my school pc. Gaming PC ive got it figured out.

[Manicdan]

i think the simplest way to explain the T3 is its like giving the D5 a top that has 1" inlets and outlets, instead of .5" (and yes i know 1" opening is more than double a .5" opening, its just for thinking, not proven math)

[rambler358]

However, I need something from all of you, once the numbers are release can we put the issue to bed? I need to get this backlog I've accumulated taken care of.

Of course! Do you by chance have a "XSPC Res Dual DDC" in your test schedule yet?