Chiller/ac unit

[jamaljaco]

Originally posted by sky
:

@jamal
i hope you don't mind me shortening your nick .
i've been looking into tygon r3603 last week and they sell it only in 15 meter rolls for about 86 euros. that's way more than i need - and on browsing the pages of ismatec sa (tygon factory guys) i found something that bothers me. in the specs they say r3603 incorporates softeners (don't know if that's the correct term) and is basically yet another pvc-mixture. and it is said that r3603 isn't recommended for use with solvents - solvents here referring to stuff as in paint, etc.
that's why i started to worry about you running paint thinner or similar stuff through it.

it should be ok for alcohols or similar stuff, but i spent some more time at their site and browsed for other materials and found tygon mh 2075. that doesn't incorporate softeners and is resistant to solvents of any type. the temp-range is given as -70°C to +52°C (not exactly my range...). so now i'm trying to find a reseller that lists this. so far i only found about 4 shops in all of germany (!) that offer r3603 - and those are mostly medical equipment suppliers, just as you said.

anyway. my windshield solvent test wasn't as successful as i hoped. temps went to about -10°C since that stuff started slushing. i had the chiller run for some time and had to do other stuff, when i returned i had a fat piece of ice in my rez - doh. so that mixture was crap and it stinks pretty bad. i didn't have enough of it (and if i had i would have been woozy all day) and had to add water - too much it would seem
so next up is the test with real car-coolant - that should give me an idea of what temps can be reached.




btw happy new year from 2004 already

Hello Sky, Jamal is my name My kind g/f posted some links for the r3603 as you have seen. Yea I'm familar with the mh2075 and wouldn't mind trying it but I think it would be overkill for our application and a bit expensive.the mh 2075 is for much stronger chemicals like methyl- ethyl-ketones , xylenes and such.I work with these solvents every day and know their properties first hand. The r3603 has excellent resistance to milder chemicals such as methanol as you have stated. I have had my r3603 in my coolant for over a month and see no signs of degrading .

Yea , I wouldn't add any water to the coolant just a mixture of engine coolant and methanol. Equal parts or a bit heavy on the methanol side works best for me, and yea it produces a vapor that is unpleasant and not to healthy Make your cover, but you really should insulate it .

[Gary Lloyd]

just checked I'm right at 10-c assuming the air going in is ambient.

Being a professionally engineered system, its not too surprising that the condenser sizing/airflow combination is just right. When you take the next step, adjusting the refrigerant charge, this will drop the delta-T a little, lessening the airflow needs. And should you go beyond this and replace the cap tube for lower temps, this will drop the delta-T substantially, further reducing the airflow needs.

[jamaljaco]

Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
Being a professionally engineered system, its not too surprising that the condenser sizing/airflow combination is just right. When you take the next step, adjusting the refrigerant charge, this will drop the delta-T a little, lessening the airflow needs. And should you go beyond this and replace the cap tube for lower temps, this will drop the delta-T substantially, further reducing the airflow needs.

Understood, but seeing how I had to relocate everthing ,omit the shroud ,reconstruct the shroud, alter the fan speed switching, I thought it might be prudent to check it out,

[Gary Lloyd]

I agree wholeheartedly. Professionally engineered or not, when I am checking out a system, I monitor a minimum of 8 different temperatures, and sometimes as many as 12. None of these temperatures tell me what I need to know. It is always the temperature differences, condenser delta-T being just one example, that tell the story.

It is indeed prudent to check it out.

[jamaljaco]

Right, I do something similar everyday at work as a painter,For ideal application I have to monitor ambient,surface,coating,
temps.Humidity and dewpoint. Its the relationship to the ambient that tells me whats going on the individual temps. Alone they mean nothing. understanding humidity and dewpoint has helped me alot in considering insulation factors and such. Anyone who has carefully monitored their temps on their computer should have a fair grasp of this but after a lot of reading i'm not so sure some do, hehe..

[Gary Lloyd]

Indeed, everyone should be aware of the dewpoint in their area. The insulation and/or heaters (ugh) must keep all surfaces above dewpoint to avoid condensation problems.

But beyond this, the better the insulation, the more system capacity is devoted to cooling the evaporator rather than cooling the ambient. Even if I lived in the driest desert on Earth, I would overinsulate everything in sight.

Insulation is our friend.

[Redwolf]

Not in the attic I just crawled out of it isn't

[Gary Lloyd]

LOL... I know just what you mean... fiberglass hell.

[Gary Lloyd]

How are the window A/C chillers coming, guys? I don't want to hear that you're happy with the temperatures you're getting. You have a 1/2 HP compressor. We can leave vapo's in the dust, and kick the crap out of a few prommies, too.

[jamaljaco]

Shhheeeeeesh! Gary don't you sleep?

[jamaljaco]

Yea Gary < just spent the last few hours clocking, can never get what I want , my temps are just fine...

I wish I could just walk right in to home depot and grab some line taps, manifolds and few guages and a 20 lb jug of hooch. But it just dont work that way . Ive browsed the net looking at the 608 test but man those folks want money just to get a gander at the study books.,LOL , I could do the r134 thing but I want the goods

[Gary Lloyd]

Shhheeeeeesh! Gary don't you sleep?

I pass out once in a while. Does that count?

[jamaljaco]

Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
I pass out once in a while. Does that count?

Not unless you make it to rapid eye movement for at least 20 mins.

[Gary Lloyd]

The 608 test is open book, online. The degree of difficulty is right up there with the drivers license test. Keep in mind that it is not a refrigeration test. You are getting a material handling certificate. You just need to learn the EPA rules and regulations.

Maybe we can get Runmc in here to give us a few pointers. He passed it a while back. And there may be others in the group as well.

[jamaljaco]

Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
How are the window A/C chillers coming, guys? I don't want to hear that you're happy with the temperatures you're getting. You have a 1/2 HP compressor. We can leave vapo's in the dust, and kick the crap out of a few prommies, too.

Just as soon as I can aquire some gear we can start a new thread and call it step 2,

[jamaljaco]

Uh , Gary, LOL , Ive never had a DL ever.

[jamaljaco]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jamaljaco
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
WOW... Very nice work.

I like your way of making a compartment for the returning coolant. How did you get it to stay in position?

Good morning Gary. Thats pretty much just where it wanted to be . It did seperate from the side wall towards the bottom of the tank positioning the Danner pump (which went in first) took care of the that.

Updated pics, I was draining my res to try a different coolant mixture. Thought I would show how the Danner pump ended up in the cooler. This was the only way I could get it in there and still have room for the hoses.
I had to add an elbow to clear the evap. The pump rest about 3 inches below the coolant surface.

[jamaljaco]

This pic shows a little better (than the pics on page 7) the two seperate compartments .

[jamaljaco]

OOPs forgot the pic

[Gleep]

Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
The 608 test is open book, online. The degree of difficulty is right up there with the drivers license test. Keep in mind that it is not a refrigeration test. You are getting a material handling certificate. You just need to learn the EPA rules and regulations.

Maybe we can get Runmc in here to give us a few pointers. He passed it a while back. And there may be others in the group as well.

After seeing this post I went searching for online testing and found www.epatest.com . They are EPA certified (I confirmed this, they are on the EPA's list of Technician Certification Programs ) to test for 608 Type 1, 2, 3, and universal but only the type 1 testing is available online the other are closed book with a proctor. They have a nice pdf that covers the core and type 1 stuff which you can keep open during the test. The test is $24.95 and you are allowed 3 hours to complete the test although it should take a lot less time to complete. Passing each section requires correctly anwsering 21 of the 25 questions (84%), there are 2 sections for the type 1 cert (the core and type 1 sections).

My only pointer is read the majority of the pdf document before you start the test.

The one question I have is what refrigerants does the type 1 cert allow you to purchase? I'm sure 404a is allowed but what about 410a?

[sky]

@geekgoddess & jamal

almost forgot to thank you for the links - i've browsed through those sites and found some interesting bits. as for the tubing.. atm i'm throwing around various tygon type tubes, but now i got a good starting point for my inquiries.

anyway. i haven't been working on my chiller since i've been waiting for parts. i spent some time preparing the vmods for my gfx-card and did some oc-tests. 2406 on air, 2480 boot into windows but not much more - damn my psu needs to be replaced 300w

[GeekGoddess]

SKY,

Always glad to help a fellow Geek!

[Slickthellama]

how much would a window AC unit cost? I'm thinking about chilling my TEC and maybe doing some direct dye. How much would a decent AC unit cost? Gary do you have any I could buy? since your local.

[Gary Lloyd]

No I don't Slick, but they are relatively cheap. Places like Walmart have 5200 BTU window A/C's for less than $100, brand new.

Don't let the low price fool you. These little window A/C's have some real cooling power.

[Gary Lloyd]

just checked I'm right at 10-c assuming the air going in is ambient.

Many A/C's have multi-speed (actually multi-HP) fan motors. Once you have trimmed the refrigerant charge, it may be possible to go to the lowest fan speed, thereby reducing the noise.