Magicool liquid kit + TEC + 2nd liquid

[Delfistyaosani]

Looks nice

But seems this is 1-1 (H-C) pump not H-C-H, but if I can get one like get done it would just need to add a dual-sided copper WB.

[Ultrasonic2]

oooooo here's my chiller . I dont want to be left out

[Delfistyaosani]

Ultrasonic2

Nice nice I'm fu**ing stuck at my one - no TEC supplier locally, not enough resources to order from digikey

I'm still thinking which method would be better - to sandwich a dual-side copper waterblock between TECs or make series of the same quantity of TECs or exclude copper at all and let water stream on TECs directly?

-----------------------------------

WOW! U live in a wonderful place man! Should be winter there now, right? The best season for overclocking (god bless google maps )

[Ultrasonic2]

well you have to apply pressure to the TEC's so the last option isn't viable.. it best to have the cold side in middle with 2 hot sides on the out side ... but it's more complicated

Im gonna make a proper chiller soon enough

[Delfistyaosani]

Won's water pressure work? If I rise it up to 300/500PSI is it enough? Say.. what if apply water pressure on hotsides and a WB on cold? Don't think magicool-s pump would be capable of 300PSI

[Ultrasonic2]

in theory it could .. but any way you'd want the copper for heat spreading

[Delfistyaosani]

The heat is spread by a radiator that I already have tested with 1KW and works like charm I just need to transfer from hotsides to water as fast as possible

*****

So, after some calcs seems it would be better to get four 245W 5x5cm TEC-s from customthermoelectric, total cost is 160$ and total power 980W. I also will have to get a 100A 12V PSU, special 15V single rail 1KW PSUs cost 500$+ !!! for example this http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...me=285-1794-ND but this could do near the same work for 130$ (if it doesn't burn out :P ) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817159072

[Vinas]

You'll want to run those TECs at 12 or 13vdc. Much more and efficiency hits the floor... Cooling output in watts should be around ~230 each.

I know at 12vdc my single TEC is putting a good load on the 1200 turbocool I have. Heat just pours out from the PSU so 4 could be a stretch... Unless you cooled the PSU better. Water cool it!

[Delfistyaosani]

Guess it would be easier just to put PSU into streaming oil which is used for cooling TECs but at first I have to make sure the PSU is really 24/7 capable of amps written in specification.

I've been thinking what if pick a very long copper tube (20meter+) form as three or four level rectangle, fill empty space with liquid aluminum(better than air :P) and chill it from bot sides? (my English doesn't let me explain more clearly )

So many ideas and so stuck... hope I'll round up enough $ for PSU and TECs in about 2 monts, so now the only thing I can do is to think and think which combination/method is better

[Vinas]

If I understand correctly you want to wrap the tube in some liquid? Also the other day I came across this heat exchanger on ebay:

[Delfistyaosani]

Actually no. I don't need to transfer heat from one liquid directly to another, but from liquid to TECs coldside. TECs create a "cold area" but if simply stream liquid very quickly through that it won't get chilled as needed. To get better results liquid must touch cold surface for some long time, if a warped copper tube is "filled" with aluminium and formed as a cube or any rectangular form and gets chilled from two or more sides chilling efficiency should increase if there is enough energy pumping out from that... lets call it coldbox then it would be possible to get even below -10 degrees right? I'm not a physicist so if this is wrong please correct

[STRMX]

i am not a physicist but i do not think that you are looking at it in the right way to increase the rate of cooling you would need to do is make the liquid have as large of surface area as possible so eg. if you put a 1gallen jug of water in the freezer and 1gallen of water spread as thinly over a large surface area it will freeze substantially faster. so what i would suggest is to make something like Ultrasonic2 did except incorporate your idea of H C H and to make it cool faster and reach lower temperatures i would increase the surface area

this was one of my old ideas and put T.E.C.s on both sides
............._____________________________________ __________
(water in)VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV(wate r out)
.............------------------------------------------------------

this are 2 peaces of copper sandwiched together where the path for the water is forced to flow in a V shape to increase surface area

the V is not grooves but the path that the water flows to increase the distance the water has to travel. also make it as wide as you can to prevent from reducing flow

by the way i maid a better drawing of what i was trying to show you with my little letter picture thing but my scanner broke

i wish you the best of luck with this project cant wait to see what it ends up like

[flak-spammer]

Temperatures are directly related to how high the Dt of the TEC is (what voltage it's at etc). So you cannot change the max Dt.

[Delfistyaosani]

STRMX

I'm not sure it will end up soon but 10x anyway

flak-spammer

I was looking at 15-volt 250W TECs, to pick four of them to ger 1KW. Would it be enough to get about 0C`at 20-25 ambient?

[Delfistyaosani]

Seems I'll have a chance to purchase some of these goods after a few weeks, I guess a chiller block can be assembled for ~350$ without brainstorm and hours of soldering.

Here we go

I'm gonna get two of these TEC Waterblocks:







I'll need two to sandwich TECs to pump heat from one loop to another, sum: 240$

As u see 4 TECs are needed, so I think I'll get four 12711-5M31-15CQ, each costs 26.5$, 106$ total.

characteristics: Imax - 15A, Qmax - 140W, Vmax - 15.2, 40x40mm.

This is the best config I could think about, anyone got better suggestion?

P.S. I guess 1KV for E8500 will be too much, 560W isn't a joke

[demonkevy666]

Seems I'll have a chance to purchase some of these goods after a few weeks, I guess a chiller block can be assembled for ~350$ without brainstorm and hours of soldering.

Here we go

I'm gonna get two of these TEC Waterblocks:







I'll need two to sandwich TECs to pump heat from one loop to another, sum: 240$

As u see 4 TECs are needed, so I think I'll get four 12711-5M31-15CQ, each costs 26.5$, 106$ total.

characteristics: Imax - 15A, Qmax - 140W, Vmax - 15.2, 40x40mm.

This is the best config I could think about, anyone got better suggestion?

P.S. I guess 1KV for E8500 will be too much, 560W isn't a joke

it would use 912 watts.

cooling at max volts though it isn't impossible, it's inefficient. running at low volts makes them efficient.

I have 225 Qmax one I burned out it's a 24 volt tec. 40mm x40mm

[flak-spammer]

How about you buy some decent TEC's and undervolt them, that way you don't have to deal with insane heatloads or insane electrical requirements.

[demonkevy666]

How about you buy some decent TEC's and undervolt them, that way you don't have to deal with insane heatloads or insane electrical requirements.

heat load insane no I got a mugen 2 to hold 497 watts with the 225 watt tec a full volts and amps (372 watts) plus the 125 watt cpu. heat sink was probably 50C though so not impossible. Just not practical for daily use

heat dump in the room is what sucked. I'll agree the power draw is higher then one would want to use 24/7.

[Duh]

oooooo here's my chiller . I dont want to be left out

ultrasonic : I regularly see your stuff and I really like it

[Delfistyaosani]

demonkevy666

Second loop transfers over 1KW with no problem, but I can use PWM to control TEC load so I can find best settings.

The one question I really need answer is: what's the difference between 24-volt TEC undervolted to 12 and 12-volt tec on 6V?

[demonkevy666]

demonkevy666

Second loop transfers over 1KW with no problem, but I can use PWM to control TEC load so I can find best settings.

The one question I really need answer is: what's the difference between 24-volt TEC undervolted to 12 and 12-volt tec on 6V?

oh I meant the tec wold use 912 watts all together not the heat out put

they use less amps and start cooling more watts then they use.

I believe the Tdelta is lower though.
it should half. if your use the 225 watt 24 volt at 12 volts it uses 7.75 amps Qmax would be 112.5 watts while the tec will only use 93 watts but the Tdelta will only be 32C instead of it's full 64C.

[Delfistyaosani]

I Don't understand the point of undervolting if hotsides are cooled well, I'll power TECs via full-scale PWM and add thermal sensors to both sides of TECs and inputs/outputs of both water loops.

[Ultrasonic2]

ultrasonic : I regularly see your stuff and I really like it

Thanks man

[Ultrasonic2]

I Don't understand the point of undervolting if hotsides are cooled well, I'll power TECs via full-scale PWM and add thermal sensors to both sides of TECs and inputs/outputs of both water loops.

Heres an answer i prepared early .. though not exactly what your asking but should be of some help


Q. I’ve heard that TEC’s are very inefficient is this true. And what about phase change ?

A.
To begin with the Term “Efficient” is NOT the correct term to use when comparing the amount of electricity used to what It’s able to move. As this can exceed 100% by a long way. When talking about moving heat we use the term C.O.P (Coefficient of Performance)

The C.O.P number is ascertained by taking the Qc (Which may NOT be QMax) and dividing it by the input power. Higher the number equals higher the “Efficiency”

Now there is NO blanket rule to whether or not a TEC is “Efficient” (high COP). This is the case because the COP of a TEC changes depending on the input power relative to it’s max. As you increase the input power the COP is reduced (Less efficient).

If we compare the COP of common phase change systems to a TEC system including pumps and fans. The COP can be very similar PROVIDING you have a relatively low input power relative to the max of the TEC. However to achieve a TEC system with such high COP you’ll need to use many under voted TEC’s. Making the unit far to large to direct die cool your PC. You’ll have to make a water chillier for that kind of COP. A Single TEC direct die cooling a PC will require a high input power relative to it’s max giving it a comparably MUCH lower COP than phase change

NOTE: As you decrease the input power relative to the Max of the TEC, the maximum achievable delta is also decreased. So if you have a phase change and TEC system running at the SAME COP the phase change system will always result in lower temps because the phase change unit will have a far greater delta.

So thats why you under volt to increase the TEC's COP (efficiency)

[Delfistyaosani]

OK.. If I understand correctly if I have 400W constant power and want to get higher COP then copof(1*400W)<copof(2*200W)<copof(4*100W).....<cop of(n*400/nW) an seems like Lim(COPOF(n*power/n)) where n->+inf = 100% right?

In that case I'll get 4 or 8 100-150W TECs, power them via PWM with automatic peak COP detection