Ok so I did get the Pionner Premier PRO TS-W3002D4
Here is the picture of how my amplifier settings look like, can somebody help me how to tune it?
It is tuned to my Kicker CVR right now so I realized that was why today while playing music to break it in, I only hit ultra low frequencies (Lil Wayne - A Millie) and other songs didnt hit as hard as they did with the CVR.
Help is really appreciated
Pionner Premier PRO TS-W3002D4 Specifications
what box was the kicker in vs the new 1.25 ported box?
level will be between 6 and 0.5, "3" should be at whatever your preferences (its the db per octave rolloff), subsonic filter probably about 25 or 30 (just play with it), low boost maybe +5 and "24" if you want it to sound harder. Raise low pass to whatever you think sounds best (start at 50, listen to a song with lots of high/fast bass).
Order of adjustment:
Level + off/12/24
Subsonic
Low pass
Low Boost + 12/24
edit
If you have a digital multimeter you can touch it to the positive speaker terminal of your amp and a ground point and measure the AC voltage of your amp being output. Square the voltage and divide by the ohm load to get true power output.
When you adjust your gains you will want to aim for about 40v AC at 75% volume with a 50hz test tone to make 900w @ 2ohms. That is if you are going for max power though, otherwise set it by ear to where it sounds good.
Here's a couple decent discussions on the topic of setting gains:
http://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/boa...showtopic=4382
http://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/boa...howtopic=23462
Last edited by STEvil; 09-18-2009 at 09:57 PM.
All along the watchtower the watchmen watch the eternal return.
Thanks Stevil to the rescueOriginally Posted by STEvil
The Pioneer is in the same box the CVR was in, I cant really change the box for now. Need to save for other things for now. 1.12cubic ft I believe
Btw, #6 applies to the Low Pass filter, not to the Low Boost (see the shadow?). So for now I will leave it where it is, which is 24db I believe.
Will follow your advice on the order of adjustment. It really needs a good tune up since boom boom pow (haha i know) wasnt that impressive. And we talking about 400 vs 1000
Hey Stevil
Btw, is it true that is bad to have the low boost higher than the level (gain)?
EDIT: Wow, this gain thing seems so complicated. I believe I will just do it by ear since i dont have a DMM. I first need to know if its bad to have low boost higher than gain.
Last edited by slim142; 09-18-2009 at 11:37 PM.
I also have to mention, Right now with my amplifier set up with CVR settings, I have to rise a lot more the volume to bring more bass. I think thats a too low gain problem right?
could be sub/box efficiency. The box makes or breaks a sub... tiny boxes suck
All along the watchtower the watchmen watch the eternal return.
Im thinking that it could be my box that is holding me.
I mean, if we compare sizes, the Pioneer is 3 times bigger and 3 times heavier so I suppose it needs more space?
Dam, I dont want to buy another box
I was playing with the Gain, and the low pass filter today, sub didnt seem to be affected, only when low pass filter was lowered to 50, there was less bass.
You could build a box, its relatively easy to do and many places that sell MDF will cut it for you for 50c a cut or something.
All along the watchtower the watchmen watch the eternal return.
I dont know of any place
Im trying to contact this store that sold me the CVR and the box to see what they say about my new pioneer and the box it needs.
So if you have the wrong box (too small), the bass will not come out right?
Wow, I just tuned my system (spent like 45 mins), bass has improved a little.
Still, basic songs lack the bass for some reason. I can understand the CVR was getting its full power, but shouldnt I hear the same bass level with the Pioneer?
Btw, I also got the measurements from my box and the cubic feet and here they are
WIDTH 18 5/8 (16.88 without port)
HEIGHT 16 1/4
DEPTH 15 1/8 (0.125)
Port HEIGHT: 14 5/8
Port WIDTH: 1 3/4
So the cubic feet of my box is 1.78937 (1.79). Now, I can see why you were telling me so bad that 1.12 would sound so bad. Im thinking the 112 in the receipt meant "one box for (1)12 inch"
So yeah, now we can conclude my box is not too small or small. Now, we can see is even bigger than the MAX recommended (1.60). Now, to what is it tuned? I have no idea and i dont know how to find that out. Maybe you can help me more now that we have my official box measurements?
Now that we have small box out of question, I have some questions remaining
1) Is the box too big? Recommended is 1.25, max 1.60 for ported. Im on 1.79 or the bigger the better?
2) Now that I tuned my amp, does the amp have anything to do now? Sony XM-D9001GTR 900watts RMS @ 2ohms
3) Could it be that the subwoofer is still breaking in?
4) Could it be my amp is not powerful/efficient enough?
Last edited by slim142; 09-20-2009 at 04:40 PM.
did you take internal measurements or external? Port volume (external measurements) needs to be subtracted from the box volume as well. How long is your port? I come up with a figure of near 2.4 cubic feet btw...
I would recommend 2-2.5 cubic feet, probably closer to 2.
I would choose box (if its really 1.12-1.79) and amp. Sony amps are notoriously poor quality. Also factors like how the amplifiers dampening factor changes with resistance will make it sound different. Did you connect the sub properly? It might be worth a try swapping the + and - around on the sub or amp though it shouldnt matter.
All along the watchtower the watchmen watch the eternal return.
These are external measurements. The sub is so heavy and big I couldnt take it out once I put it inside the box, but I did make sure it was properly connected. - with - and + with + and then take one - and connect it to the box as well as one +
(does it matter if you connect the - from one coil and the + from the other coil?, not saying I did, but just want to make sure)
Do you really thnk the subwoofer I might connected the sub inproperly? How can you tell if you did? Does the sub work if only one coil is connected (even though is bad)?
Im believing my box is 1.75, keeping in mind that I used external measurements, we just disregard the extra 5/8s and it also makes sense the chinese guy who sold me this wante to give me the max recommended ported enclosure for the CVR which is 1.75
We have reached a point in which all I have left to do is go to this chinese guy who lives 15 mins away from me. He sells pioneers and kickers so he might find out right there whats wrong with my system.
Hey Stevil, how come you get 2.40? Thats waaay too big, almost double what my CVR max recommended is (1.75).
And why recommend me an even bigger box? I thought it was better to go with manufacturer recommendations? in this case max would be 1.60, isnt 2.0 too much?
FInally, if the sony is not efficient, shouldnt it still send the same wattage as it did to the CVR? SHouldnt the pioneer pound if not harder just as hard as the CVR did?
Last edited by slim142; 09-21-2009 at 05:30 AM.
I getting to the conclusion that it might be the box after all.
After spending some time reaidng, asking and doing some research specially in the pioneer website, I believe this subwoofer was made for small boxes. The subwoofer does not need more than 1.6 and thats the max. Im giving it an enclosure with 1.75 so Im pretty sure Im losing frequencies because of the huge size of the box. In addition, this sub was not intended to be hooked on open space, so makes sense.
I think I will make a 1.3 box with the one that I already have. Do you know of any website that sells boxes?
Btw, here are my amplifier settings. Let me know if you see anything odd, strange or "too much"
Level: 0.5
Subsonic Filter: 10Hz (Flat)
Subsonic Switch: OFF
Low Boost: 1:00 o'clock (60%)
Low Pass Filter: 80hz (11:00 o'clock)
Low Pass Switch: 24db
Last edited by slim142; 09-21-2009 at 02:10 PM.
You might have been better off getting a second CVR by the sound of it
its always a pain trying to get subs to work how you want.. i've taken out the 4 10's, put the 18 in, now I have only 2 10's in (two ~2.5ft^3 ported boxes) and soon i'll have the 18 in again with an 8ft^3 box....
You can make your current box "smaller" by putting some material inside the box to take up space... that way you save a bunch of money if it doesnt help. Make sure to secure the stuff inside the box or it will rattle.
Box
ext 18.625 x 16.25 x 15.125 = 4577.676 in^3 = 2.649 ft^3
int 16.875 x 14.5 x 13.375 = 3272.695 in^3 = 1.894 ft^3 (assuming 3/4" thick mdf)
Port
int mouth measurements? 14.625 x 1.75 x ? =
ext volume measurements: 16.375 x 3.5 x ? = 248.832 in^3 (assuming 3/4" thick mdf)
Is the port ~4.34 inches long internally? Sounds a bit short... so i'm gonna guess 1/2" MDF was used or the measurements somewhere are not quite right.
I forgot to mention the Pioneers could also have a different frequency response curves to the CVR's. Though they might hit 30hz the same for example, they might not hit 125hz the same.
All along the watchtower the watchmen watch the eternal return.
Wow man, Im kinda annoyed right now.
First, I dont have space for two subs and second, this HAS TO BE BETTER (GRRRRRRR), its 1000watts!
I dont know, I guess Im just gonna have to spend more money on a box. I will try to get a new 1.30 cubic feet box ported tuned at 35hz (is that ok?) and see how it sounds. If it does sound bad, I will definitely sell it and look for something else.
Just have two more questions
Will the Pioneer blow or get harm if I play it loud in its current 1.75cubic box?
Does the sub work if you have only one coil connected? Not saying I did it wrong but I want to make sure. I mean, the bass comes out at the right moment like it should, just not as loud. But this keeps moving around my mind for some reason lol. Can it blow if only one coil is connected?
Last edited by slim142; 09-22-2009 at 05:34 AM.
You can cause damage if you have it connected incorrectly. You will only damage a sub in a large box if you are pushing it with too much power or if you are pushing it to a large xmax (the distance the cone moves) that creates usually audible distortion or stressing..
The sub is not 1000w, the Amp is. Weak links in a system are just that and unless you know you hooked it up correctly you may only be feeding it say 250w.. or 500.. or who knows what. Or if you've shorted a coil you could be over-dampening the other coil.. possibly leading to damage.
I would recommend pulling the sub and checking your wiring first. Secondly put some material in the box to take up a bit of space to see what the difference between 1.3 and 1.75 is if you are sure your coils are done right.
Think of each "speaker" in this image as a coil.
All along the watchtower the watchmen watch the eternal return.
Ok got it, will not play my sub loud. I really dont want to blow it or damage it.
About the wattage, my amp is 900 and my sub 1000.
What do you mean by shortening a coil?
I will definitely check the wires before playing the sub again and fix my little mistake. I will play it and see how it goes. Then if nothing happens, put maybe phone books inside and see how it sounds.
God dammit, I didnt know the freakin box was that important!!!
Btw, this is how I connected it (MY MISTAKE-> You see the two green dots? Those are the (+ -)terminals that I connected to the amp, I think I should have connected the right-sided negative as shown in the picture????)
Last edited by slim142; 09-23-2009 at 08:31 AM.
That's not true, actually. The sub has a pretty high Qts number at .65 which means it could be used as an open air woofer. The Fs is also pretty close to 30hz.
My guess would be your gains are poorly set up, well they are you have no DMM or an oscilloscope. Tuning it by ear will give you a blown sub or amp. Wiring might be bad.
Well, I dont know if my gain is right or not. However...
I just went to the car and took out the sub, checked the wired, fixed my error in wiring, tried a quick song and guess what? The sub sounds MUCH BETTER! I would say is actually fixed. I played a song which had no bass last time and now that I fixed the wiring, the bass is back!
I felt like the Pioneer could do even more so I decided to put some phone books inside (two), and when I played the song, I felt the bass was a little stronger. I felt that the 10% it was missing, was back. However, then I felt the pages of the books making sounds a bit and since I didnt want to damage the subwoofer, I turned it off quickly and removed the books and put the sub back.
Now, the bass is back which is a good thing. I just need to test a couple more songs to see if all the frequencies of the CVR can be played by the Pioneer. Then, it will be time to fill the box or just get a new one to the specifications of the sub and i should be fine.
Thanks for the help stevil, now I just need to find the right box and I should be good to go!
what was wrong with your wiring? Or did you have it wired for 4ohm and now it's at 2ohm in which case the sound increase is normal and your problem is still there...
Last edited by Dave_Sz; 09-23-2009 at 01:45 PM.
Well you see where the two green dots are in the subwoofer in the diagram? I had those two going to the box (before the amp of course). What I did to fix it was have it just like the diagram. + form the left side and - from the right side (from different coils I should say) and now the bass is back.
However, I have noticed I have lost some frequencies. Im pretty sure that has to be the oversized box.
so you had it connected to just one coil, meaning half the wattage of the rated sub. If you ran 900rms from the amp into the one coil that was rated for lets say 500, well, you might have problems. Now you have it hooked up at 2 ohm, as I said...
No
I did have both coils connected, I just had the positive from the box on the wrong +
I was suppose to have it on the left + and I had it on the right +
the picture with two green dots shows only 1 coil being used...
Last edited by Dave_Sz; 09-23-2009 at 06:13 PM.
Exactly
But I still had both + connected with a shorter cable as well as the negatives.
Basically imagine that diagram but the positive that goes to the amp is the + next to the - that is going to the amp. With both + and - still connected in parallel.
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