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Thread: AMD Phenom II TWKR Black Edition spotted

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBeep2 View Post
    Seriously, AMD BE's have unlocked multi's for a normal price ie. $240, intel's are up around $1000 for an unlocked multi. You could buy 4 of the AMD's for the price of the intel chip. Then there is the arguement that the intel chip is 10% faster...it's not fanboyism it's common sense.

    Zucker2k, they test every CPU anyway, so if they find one really good why not toss it in the TWKR pile? I don't see how that's gonna hurt AMD when they can sell it for a good $50 more.
    if AMD chips were pwning intel, they would cost 1000$ too. it really never matters on how good something is, its just on how good it is compared to the competition.

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    4.2GHz 24/7 on a Phenom II would require what.. 1.5v and a GOOD heatsink? Just because the IHS had the number 42 on it doesn't signify 4.2GHz. I suspect it is part #42 of the TWKR line. If stock is 4.2GHz then I'd be shocked/surprised/jealous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Manicdan View Post
    if AMD chips were pwning intel, they would cost 1000$ too. it really never matters on how good something is, its just on how good it is compared to the competition.
    Agreed. Everyone seems to forget the FX55/57/60/62.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manicdan View Post
    if AMD chips were pwning intel, they would cost 1000$ too. it really never matters on how good something is, its just on how good it is compared to the competition.
    back when amd chips were pwning intel, intel EE's still cost ~$1,000

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    Quote Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG View Post
    back when amd chips were pwning intel, intel EE's still cost ~$1,000
    only because people would still buy them like they were going out of style so why not?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manicdan View Post
    if AMD chips were pwning intel, they would cost 1000$ too. it really never matters on how good something is, its just on how good it is compared to the competition.
    true that. As for Intel, they can ALWAYS set $1000 price because they have overwhelming majority of market and dump trucks of cash.. they can price however they want.


    And lets put the insanely stupid 4.2Ghz to rest once and for all:

    Intel has a LOT of headroom, especially on E8xxx Wolfdale, hence no E8700 on market. With Intel 45nm Core2Duo, 4Ghz is possible without voltage increase. And their default voltage is very small ~1.2V.

    Different story with 45nm Phenom II. They already use ridiculous desperate 1.35V stock - HIGHER than some 65nm Phenom - just to reach 3Ghz.
    EDIT: this means Intel 45nm better than AMD 45nm.

    DONT YOU THINK IF AMD COULD HAVE RELEASED 4.2Ghz, THEY WOULD HAVE HIGHER CLOCK PARTS ON THE MARKET??

    As for the markings on the chip:
    1. Its Maingear.. have you bought anything from them? Its small company desperate for attention.
    2. Easy to sand down and put your own markings.
    3. Easier still to photoshop.
    4. Heck maybe even AMD does this for them. Maybe they can put "super duper ultra fast" for you to make you happy, so you will pay $999... but its still just a Phenom II - get over it.
    Last edited by ***Deimos***; 06-12-2009 at 07:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chew* View Post
    Guys its just a quad........best suited for cold conditions.
    binned for cold?
    shaaaweeeeeeet!

    if this is actually the propper bin1 that amd pulls to send it off to ocers and press and using it on wr attempts with liquid helium, then that would be a great move!

    and if thats the case, i hope intel follows!
    as soon as its possible to buy bin1, even if its very expensive, all this handpicking is sortof ok imo... well thats at least my opinion...

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    If they are going to be putting out special editions, wouldn't be surprised if they number them VW does.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ***Deimos*** View Post
    With Intel 45nm Core2Duo, 4Ghz is possible without voltage increase. And their default voltage is very small ~1.2V.

    Different story with 45nm Phenom II. They already use ridiculous desperate 1.35V stock - HIGHER than some 65nm Phenom - just to reach 3Ghz.
    EDIT: this means Intel 45nm better than AMD 45nm.
    totally different manufacturing processes and material... AMD is still SOI which will always require higher voltages, Intel is HKMG and way lower voltages.

    and 1.35v for stock AMD is not ridiculous or desperate, especially since a quad can go from 3.0 (or 3.2) up to 3.6 or so without a voltage increase on all four cores. i'd say that's very nice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ***Deimos*** View Post
    Different story with 45nm Phenom II. They already use ridiculous desperate 1.35V stock - HIGHER than some 65nm Phenom - just to reach 3Ghz.
    EDIT: this means Intel 45nm better than AMD 45nm.
    Come on. What does voltage say about powerconsumption/heat? Phenom II x4 955BE are using desperate 1.375v

    HKMG vs. SOI, your comparing apples and oranges.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ***Deimos*** View Post
    Different story with 45nm Phenom II. They already use ridiculous desperate 1.35V stock - HIGHER than some 65nm Phenom - just to reach 3Ghz.
    EDIT: this means Intel 45nm better than AMD 45nm.
    What a gross misunderstanding of the different process technologies.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ***Deimos*** View Post
    Different story with 45nm Phenom II. They already use ridiculous desperate 1.35V stock - HIGHER than some 65nm Phenom - just to reach 3Ghz.
    EDIT: this means Intel 45nm better than AMD 45nm.


    so thats why AMD PHII TDP is so much lower than intel's both stock and OCed right??

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    Quote Originally Posted by ***Deimos*** View Post
    Different story with 45nm Phenom II. They already use ridiculous desperate 1.35V stock - HIGHER than some 65nm Phenom - just to reach 3Ghz.
    EDIT: this means Intel 45nm better than AMD 45nm.
    Man did i read this thread at the wrong time....



    Different story with 45nm Phenom II,,
    AMD fits two IMC's DDR2/DDR3 in the same chip at a resonable TDP. Also Considering the Northbridge Freqency also inside the CPU can be Clocked to 2800mhz/3000mhz and generates its own heat besides the x4cores heat.

    Whats real cool is @ 4gigs and HIGH VOLTAGE the Phenom IICPU stays relativly COOLER than the InHel inSide Chips ,, even though Intels have UBER Low VOltage @ the Same Clocks

    If Intel put half a IMC in thier CPU's theyd Explode@ Idle.


    AMD TWKR is just that ,, Something to Overclock.
    Intel i7 is something to cook with, like a Foreman Grill just Fries faster.
    Last edited by gOtVoltage; 06-13-2009 at 02:06 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ***Deimos*** View Post
    true that. As for Intel, they can ALWAYS set $1000 price because they have overwhelming majority of market and dump trucks of cash.. they can price however they want.


    And lets put the insanely stupid 4.2Ghz to rest once and for all:

    Intel has a LOT of headroom, especially on E8xxx Wolfdale, hence no E8700 on market. With Intel 45nm Core2Duo, 4Ghz is possible without voltage increase. And their default voltage is very small ~1.2V.

    Different story with 45nm Phenom II. They already use ridiculous desperate 1.35V stock - HIGHER than some 65nm Phenom - just to reach 3Ghz.
    EDIT: this means Intel 45nm better than AMD 45nm.

    DONT YOU THINK IF AMD COULD HAVE RELEASED 4.2Ghz, THEY WOULD HAVE HIGHER CLOCK PARTS ON THE MARKET??

    As for the markings on the chip:
    1. Its Maingear.. have you bought anything from them? Its small company desperate for attention.
    2. Easy to sand down and put your own markings.
    3. Easier still to photoshop.
    4. Heck maybe even AMD does this for them. Maybe they can put "super duper ultra fast" for you to make you happy, so you will pay $999... but its still just a Phenom II - get over it.
    but diferent story is SOI and HighK...not comparsion for Vcore this 2 diferent technology.

    edit:some info about new chipset 890FX? :-)
    Last edited by FlanK3r; 06-13-2009 at 03:01 AM.
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  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG View Post


    so thats why AMD PHII TDP is so much lower than intel's both stock and OCed right??
    And that's a huge negative. Show me a PH II priming at 85c. You have a very low thermal wall and you think that's a positive? I've primed C2Q at over 4.2Ghz well past 85c and it still run smooth as butter. That is definitely a superior process if you count:

    1. Higher tolerance for heat

    2. superior ipc

    3. Far superior overclocking overhead with mainstream cooling

    Edit: What does it say about PH IIs TDP when the chip only actually shines with extreme cold? I think there's some deception going on, may be more heat than the sensors are reporting as we know, Intel's thermal sensors are sitting right on top of the cores, AMD's have been moved away from the cores. WHY?
    Last edited by Zucker2k; 06-13-2009 at 06:35 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlanK3r View Post
    but diferent story is SOI and HighK...not comparsion for Vcore this 2 diferent technology.

    edit:some info about new chipset 890FX? :-)
    Aint they renamed to 700 series now? The IGP part is 785G now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shintai View Post
    Isn't that just the replacement for the 780G? There should be something to replace the 790's, as well, shouldn't there?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shintai View Post
    They renamed this IGP to 785G because they probably want the 880G to be the first DX11 IGP.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zucker2k View Post
    And that's a huge negative. Show me a PH II priming at 85c. You have a very low thermal wall and you think that's a positive? I've primed C2Q at over 4.2Ghz well past 85c and it still run smooth as butter. That is definitely a superior process if you count:

    1. Higher tolerance for heat

    2. superior ipc

    3. Far superior overclocking overhead with mainstream cooling

    Edit: What does it say about PH IIs TDP when the chip only actually shines with extreme cold? I think there's some deception going on, may be more heat than the sensors are reporting as we know, Intel's thermal sensors are sitting right on top of the cores, AMD's have been moved away from the cores. WHY?
    Uh huh.

    Also, I'm sure you primed that at 85 for days and weeks on end right? And it was 'smooth as butter'?

    These metaphors make me sick.
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    Theres no way that this could be 4.2 ghz stock.

    I haven't seen a 4.2 ghz phenom yet on air. The amount of binning to get such a golden chip would be incredible and thus not worth it. They would need to sell these at a incredible price and unless your making it to 5.0 ghz, its simply not worth it since even a 4.0 ghz core i7 can match such a speed for performance.

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    geez, how did this end up as an amd vs intel party again?

    so what does TWKR actually mean?
    and isnt that going a bit too far? i mean the product name is:

    AMD PhenomII 9XX TWKR Black Edition and the "short" name is [9xxTWKRBE] ? thats not short! :P but how would you diferentiate it from a normal BE?

    I miss the days when it was AMD AthlonXP xxxx
    or AMD Athlon64 FX-XX

    intel core i7 965... there, short and easy...
    and the short version: i7 965 or 965...

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    Quote Originally Posted by saaya View Post
    I miss the days when it was AMD AthlonXP xxxx
    or AMD Athlon64 FX-XX

    I still hate Phenom for the name.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shintai View Post
    Thats only the case with 780G -> 785G. AMD couldn't make the HD4000 IGP due to thermal issues as the minimum would be 80 shaders for that architecture. So instead they clocked the current chip abit and gave it a similar name.

    The "800" series should come this fall.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glow9 View Post

    I still hate Phenom for the name.
    i worked at amd and heard the name before the launch and told all people at markom that had anything remotely to do with the processor naming thats its terrible and they should NOT use it... same for the logo... a comet? uhm a comet is a falling star, a star, something great and admired falling down, crashing and burning in flames and then exploding... hello? and thats what you markom people consider a good logo for a processor?

    in the end it was the perfect logo for K10 cause K10 was amd falling down, crashing and burning and the cpus themselves were scorching hot

    everything amd has done markom wise in the past years has been cr4p... phenom, the processor naming mess with numbers and letters, copying intels i7 processor naming, spending millions on advertising of their power efficiency just weeks before intel launched c2d which was way more power efficient, marketing their platforms aka dragon and spider which only got a shrug out of most people, if they even remembered it... fusion this fusion that, but besides some marketing slides and theory talk that was all... avivo this avivo that, but actually its 4 year old tech and it sucks... stream here and there, but whats it actually being used for besides f@h which is several years old too...

    well at least they focussed on their hardware and while i dont think they go their cpu stuff done right yet, they certainly got their gpu stuff dont right.

    i still dont get why they dont make their cpus wider like intel did with the core duo to core2duo move... it a mystery to me...
    what was it, 3 to 4 issue or 4 to 5 issue? anyhow, sure the boost isnt big, but geez, they are up to 25% behind on ipc and intel wont get worse ipc over time, and all they did so far was just add cache and rework the cache and imc system...
    adding cache... thats the most unefficient way of boosting performance afaik... amd used to TRASH intel for adding more and more cache and trying to only scale through higher clocks back in the days... and now? intel is all about efficiency, smart cpu managment, high ipc, high perf per watt... and amd is using old cores and just keeps bolting more and more cache to them and trying to clock them higher and higher... its almost like switched worlds...

    it was clear that intel would change their design approach, they had to... but instead of staying ahead or going even further amd did the incredible and dropped their superior design approach and target and used that of intel
    i really hope in some years when we are all old and grey somebody will write a book about what happened inside of amd when hector ruiz took over... the more i think of it the more it looks like he did the best he could to ruin the company, and even now as we speak hes trying to get amd down by throwing stones in their wheels at the global foundry...

    there has been no ipc improvement in their cores (except for the tiny bumps caused by more cache etc) since the original athlon64 from over 5 years ago...
    Last edited by saaya; 06-13-2009 at 09:51 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zucker2k View Post
    And that's a huge negative. Show me a PH II priming at 85c. You have a very low thermal wall and you think that's a positive? I've primed C2Q at over 4.2Ghz well past 85c and it still run smooth as butter. That is definitely a superior process if you count:

    1. Higher tolerance for heat

    2. superior ipc

    3. Far superior overclocking overhead with mainstream cooling

    Edit: What does it say about PH IIs TDP when the chip only actually shines with extreme cold? I think there's some deception going on, may be more heat than the sensors are reporting as we know, Intel's thermal sensors are sitting right on top of the cores, AMD's have been moved away from the cores. WHY?
    They obviously refined the process for extreme cold OCing. Hense why it does so much better then Intel's at extreme cold. I highly doubt my chip is running higher then the temp reads on my 940. everything is cold (that is actually cold) to touch, board below chip, heatsink, etc. they are totally to different processes. get over it everyone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by saaya View Post
    i worked at amd and heard the name before the launch and told all people at markom that had anything remotely to do with the processor naming thats its terrible and they should NOT use it... same for the logo... a comet? uhm a comet is a falling star, a star, something great and admired falling down, crashing and burning in flames and then exploding... hello? and thats what you markom people consider a good logo for a processor?

    in the end it was the perfect logo for K10 cause K10 was amd falling down, crashing and burning and the cpus themselves were scorching hot

    everything amd has done markom wise in the past years has been cr4p... phenom, the processor naming mess with numbers and letters, copying intels i7 processor naming, spending millions on advertising of their power efficiency just weeks before intel launched c2d which was way more power efficient, marketing their platforms aka dragon and spider which only got a shrug out of most people, if they even remembered it... fusion this fusion that, but besides some marketing slides and theory talk that was all... avivo this avivo that, but actually its 4 year old tech and it sucks... stream here and there, but whats it actually being used for besides f@h which is several years old too...

    well at least they focussed on their hardware and while i dont think they go their cpu stuff done right yet, they certainly got their gpu stuff dont right.

    i still dont get why they dont make their cpus wider like intel did with the core duo to core2duo move... it a mystery to me...
    what was it, 3 to 4 issue or 4 to 5 issue? anyhow, sure the boost isnt big, but geez, they are up to 25% behind on ipc and intel wont get worse ipc over time, and all they did so far was just add cache and rework the cache and imc system...
    adding cache... thats the most unefficient way of boosting performance afaik... amd used to TRASH intel for adding more and more cache and trying to only scale through higher clocks back in the days... and now? intel is all about efficiency, smart cpu managment, high ipc, high perf per watt... and amd is using old cores and just keeps bolting more and more cache to them and trying to clock them higher and higher... its almost like switched worlds...

    it was clear that intel would change their design approach, they had to... but instead of staying ahead or going even further amd did the incredible and dropped their superior design approach and target and used that of intel
    i really hope in some years when we are all old and grey somebody will write a book about what happened inside of amd when hector ruiz took over... the more i think of it the more it looks like he did the best he could to ruin the company, and even now as we speak hes trying to get amd down by throwing stones in their wheels at the global foundry...

    there has been no ipc improvement in their cores (except for the tiny bumps caused by more cache etc) since the original athlon64 from over 5 years ago...
    3 vs 4 issue wide is extremely little difference. And the key problem is x86/x64. Other CPU archs easily scale to 10 issue wide. So for AMD staying at 3 issue wide is not an issue by itself. Specially not without HT. I would say that the 4 issue part in Core 2 is less than 5% used. For i7 with HT on its higher but still...
    Crunching for Comrades and the Common good of the People.

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