Instead of sucking a bunch of hot air, try this bong instead!

[Shingoshi]

After reading a thread here on this forum, I decided to pursue alternative method of building a bong. The primary feature of this bong uses a vacuum to boil the liquid-coolant, to bring about our cooling effect.

My liquid-coolant chambers are nothing more than Pentek whole-house water filter housings. These can be readily obtained online in many locations. There are many options to choose from. Mine is the larger 20" tall model, with clear sumps.

I got my housings earlier this week. All I could do was grin as soon as I started looking at them. They're sooo BIG and absolutely BEAUTIFUL. They play the part of looking like plasma coolant chambers from some scifi show. Now let me state that these components are part of a much larger project, in which I'm building a cluster with five motherboards all inside of a Pelican 1780 Transport case. The idea is to create something that looks like it would have been used on Stargate SG-1. So I'm looking for a definite alien appearance here.
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1428264

Now the one constraint in this design, is that everything must exist inside that case. Only the condenser or radiator will be mounted to the exterior. That's obviously necessary, since we have to dump the heat of the system outside. I mentioned a condenser, because I haven't decided on whether I will also be cooling my fluid with a Phase-Change system or not. But in this thread, I'm going to concentrate on the efficiency of the liquid-cooling loop using vacuum-induced boiling to release vapor and cool the liquid.

Now here's where I should point something out. The chief characteristic of this system, is the boiling of the liquid-coolant under a vacuum. But the means to produce boiling isn't limited to using low pressures. Boiling can also be easily achieved with ultrasonics, in the same way that ultrasonic humidifiers work. The major point here, is to get the fluid to boil. How, is irrelevant.

Others have tried using coolant-soaked wicks to produce evaporation by moving air across their surface. That is a fundamentally inefficient way of getting liquid to vapor-phase. One of the main reasons for this inefficiency is the ambient humidity the system operates in. Because of that inefficiency, a much larger (if not colossal) system must be built to get a lesser effect than using a vacuum.

The common technique of building what is essentially a swamp-cooler (with a bong), requires that air move over the surface of a fluid (aeration). But the ability of the air to capture and carry vapor away from the liquid is an indirect process. By definition, the area subject to evaporation by aeration, is significantly smaller than the entire volume of a fluid being caused to boil. In boiling, we're using cavitation within the fluid. The only difference here being that we're not adding heat to our system. We're dropping pressure to lower the boiling point.

So now, I will introduce you to the components of this system.

Shingoshi

[Naja002]

[Shingoshi]

The picture of the Pelican should be obvious. The case has the following internal dimensions:
42.00" x 22.00" x 15.10" (106.6 x 55.9 x 38.3 cm)

The Pentek 20" and 10" filter housings are pictured with their clear sumps and blue caps. Mine have black caps instead. The housings are actually sold by Watts. You can see the dual opposing ports here. They have a 1" NPT female thread. They have a fairly heavy construction. And since I'm using them as vacuum chambers, pressure won't be as much of an issue. I'll just have to be concerned whether these can implode by heavy vacuum.

I kind of got ahead of myself (I wrote the paragraphs after this one, before giving the essential background). I should have explained the purpose and function of the injectors. So I'll give you this link to Wikipedia to explain them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Injector
As you will see from reading this, injectors are capable of drawing an additional fluid into an existing stream. In the end, the two streams are combined. This happens because the injector is creating a vacuum on the second fluid.

Now, here's the special treat. I found these injectors on the net. And the first time I saw them, I simply gasped. Not only are they designed as I need them to be, they're also damn gorgeous. But then, there's always problems with realizing one's expectations.

The Mazzei Injectors come in many sizes. But only the 2", 3" and 4" models have suction ports larger than 1" NPT. The model that first got my attention was the #3090. However, I couldn't tell from the pictures just how beastly that thing is. It has 3" male NPT intake and outlet ports. The suction ports are 1.5" male NPT. As you can see, there are two of them. That's unusual. In fact, they're patented.

The intent, before finding out just how large the 3090 is, was to mount it between the two filter housings having fluid entering from the other two ports. However, now that I know just how large they are, I'm inclined to use the smaller 2" models. In that case, I will mount the housings directly together in series, with the Mazzei Injector mounted on the end port of the pair.

But when I thought about it some more, I realized that I really want to draw vapor from BOTH housings in the same manner that I intended to do with the 3090. In this case, I need a tee connection between the housings, with the 2" injector mounted in the middle.

Now that I went back and corrected my omission, I'll continue with the outline of this project.

The purpose here is to pump liquid-coolant through the injector at high-pressure. That high-pressure flow will cause a vacuum to be created in the housings. The liquid in the housings will then boil, and in result lower the temperature of the liquid. It's with this fluid that the system will then be cooled.

Shingoshi

[Naja002]

What is the liquid/fluid going to be?

[Shingoshi]

It should be pointed out that injectors of smaller size can be used in any liquid-cooling system to increase the flow of liquid through that system. You can always find an injector small enough to benefit your cooling loop. So, they're not just for creating vacuums. Although, they do do a good job of that too!

Shingoshi

[Shingoshi]

What is the liquid/fluid going to be?

I'm using an antifreeze mixture. But I'm considering other fluids as well. In the course of my research, I came upon antifreeze that's formulated from soy. I guess they create an alcohol with it which is nontoxic. They use it in the food industry. Especially for the production of ice cream. It has the special characteristic of causing the formation of smaller ice crystals. That would be beneficial to me, since I'm thinking of running a slurry through my system. Slurry, as in kind of like the consistency of a milk shake. But in any case, I'm looking for fluids that will support much lower freezing points.

Shingoshi

[Naja002]

I'm using an antifreeze mixture. But I'm considering other fluids as well. In the course of my research, I came upon antifreeze that's formulated from soy. I guess they create an alcohol with it which is nontoxic. They use it in the food industry. Especially for the production of ice cream. It has the special characteristic of causing the formation of smaller ice crystals. That would be beneficial to me, since I'm thinking of running a slurry through my system. Slurry, as in kind of like the consistency of a milk shake. But in any case, I'm looking for fluids that will support much lower freezing points.

Shingoshi

Right, but that's what you are going to boil via vacuum to provide the cooling, correct?

What are the candidates for a slurry if you go that route?

What kind of temps are you expecting to be able to acheive? and under what load?

What kind of tubing/piping are you going to be using?

What's the ETA on the "completion" of this cooling project? Meaning this cooling project, not the entire bigger multi-PC, etc project...

[Shingoshi]

After getting the email from Pelican Tuesday that the case was on the way, I called Optics Planet to see what was happening on their end. Hopefully, I'll my case by next Friday. Hopefully!

I really can't do anything else without having that case. I have to map out the placement of the components I want to use. I'm trying to build the system with as little tubing in it as possible. I can achieve that by directly connecting as many of the components together. Only using tubing if absolutely necessary.

And truthfully, I'm not rich. This is possibly an undertaking I would have been better off not trying. We'll just have to see what happens. If any unforeseen problems, especially any unrelated to this project occurs, I'll be set back for months. It's happened to me before. But I felt if I shared this, someone else might benefit from seeing how I developed the concept here.

Shingoshi

[Naja002]

After getting the email from Pelican Tuesday that the case was on the way, I called Optics Planet to see what was happening on their end. Hopefully, I'll my case by next Friday. Hopefully!

I really can't do anything else without having that case. I have to map out the placement of the components I want to use. I'm trying to build the system with as little tubing in it as possible. I can achieve that by directly connecting as many of the components together. Only using tubing if absolutely necessary.

And truthfully, I'm not rich. This is possibly an undertaking I would have been better off not trying. We'll just have to see what happens. If any unforeseen problems, especially any unrelated to this project occurs, I'll be set back for months. It's happened to me before. But I felt if I shared this, someone else might benefit from seeing how I developed the concept here.

Shingoshi

Sorry, but that makes no sense to me. You can connect the 2 filter housings together with the mazzei--ok, got that. But how are you going to connect the other components together? You are going to need tubing or pipe or solder, braze weld, etc.

What temps are you expecting to be able to achieve with this cooling system? No phase-change, just this cooling system--boil via vacuum....

[Shingoshi]

Most of the components in the system use NPT fittings. So I'll be able to connect the following components without tubing between them:
1.) Watts/Pentek Filter Housings = Reservoirs
2.) Mazzei Injector #2081A/2083X = Vacuum Pump
3.) Danner Hy-Drive 4800 GPH = Liquid-Coolant pump.

With the use of NPT adapters, most of these will connect directly. If I remember correctly, you don't use solder, brazing or similar means to connect PVC!

If I don't go the sub-zero route as we've discussed before, the use of other connecting techniques won't be required. I don't know yet. I haven't made up my mind.

Shingoshi

[Naja002]

Most of the components in the system use NPT fittings. So I'll be able to connect the following components without tubing between them:
1.) Reservoirs = Filter Housings
2.) Mazzei Injector = Vacuum Pump
3.) Danner Hy-Drive 4800 GPH liquid-coolant pump.

Right. The mazzei connects directly to both the res's and actually connects the res's together. Got it. The pump has to be connected somehow, so I gather from your comment below that you will be using PVC and some tubing for the most part, correct?

Is that 4800 GPH a typo? Nevermind, I googled it.

With the use of NPT adapters, most of these will connect directly. If I remember correctly, you don't use solder, brazing or similar means to connect PVC!

Right. PVC is welded.

If I don't go the sub-zero route as we've discussed before, the use of other connecting techniques won't be required. I don't know yet. I haven't made up my mind.

Shingoshi

So, you are expecting to be able to achieve sub-zero temps with your "boil via vacuum" cooling system, correct? That sub-zero C or F? And at what load?


Are you going to be incorporating "ultrasonics" into this system?

[Shingoshi]

This really shouldn't have been too difficult to understand.

I really can't do anything else without having that case. I have to map out the placement of the components I want to use. I'm trying to build the system with as little tubing in it as possible. I can achieve that by directly connecting as many of the components together. Only using tubing if absolutely necessary.

Think about it for a moment. I really don't have that much space to work with. It may seem like a lot. But I know from my experience with packing luggage, I'm going to have a lot of work ahead of me consolidating as much as I can.

My reservoirs are going to consume a lot of space on their own. I'm going to need to pack many things around them to capitalize on all the available space. I need to pack this as densely as humanly possible. I'm thinking that if I assemble everything outside of the case first, and then install the components as integrated units, much of the work can be reduced. I will likely remove the mounts for the pump and let it simply hang on the injector. The only concern there is whether the injector can support the weight. Most of my waking hours are spent thinking about this project. So yes. I know exactly how difficult it's going to be.

Shingoshi

[Shingoshi]

With the use of NPT adapters, most of these will connect directly. If I remember correctly, you don't use solder, brazing or similar means to connect PVC!

If I DON'T go the sub-zero route as we've discussed before, the use of other connecting techniques won't be required. I don't know yet. I haven't made up my mind.

Shingoshi

I think of PVC welding as a form of gluing. But I may be wrong there too. The fact is, I want NO heat sources near this case. Especially not open flames.

You missed what I said here. I said I'm thinking of NOT trying to obtain sub-zero temperatures. Some of the stuff you've said elsewhere really hit home. I understood what you were saying, and took it into account. So I'm trying to be more pragmatic about the capabilities of the build. The realities of economics are substantially influential here. I get it.

No. I don't expect to get sub-zero temperatures from using low-pressure boiling. I know that's how it's achieved in refrigeration systems. But this is an entirely different beast.

As far as ultrasonics go, I'm not sure about that either. Not because it would be difficult, but because it brings a whole new level of cost to the project. Although, ultrasonics in the form of humidifiers can be brought cheaply on the internet. You really wouldn't need too many of them to contribute to the liquid's cavitation.

Shingoshi

[Naja002]

This really shouldn't have been too difficult to understand.
Think about it for a moment. I really don't have that much space to work with. It may seem like a lot. But I know from my experience with packing luggage, I'm going to have a lot of work ahead of me consolidating as much as I can.

My reservoirs are going to consume a lot of space on their own. I'm going to need to pack many things around them to capitalize on all the available space. I need to pack this as densely as humanly possible. I'm thinking that if I assemble everything outside of the case first, and then install the components as integrated units, much of the work can be reduced. I will likely remove the mounts for the pump and let it simply hang on the injector. The only concern there is whether the injector can support the weight. Most of my waking hours are spent thinking about this project. So yes. I know exactly how difficult it's going to be.

Shingoshi

Ummmmm, No, that's not hard to understand at all. What's hard to understand is how any of that keeps you from providing info on materials usage, system expectations, etc.

So, why dodge the questions? Pretty simple stuff. You have a plan, so lay it out. I understand your goal. Now I'm trying to understand how you are going to get there.

Right. The mazzei connects directly to both the res's and actually connects the res's together. Got it. The pump has to be connected somehow, so I gather from your comment below that you will be using PVC and some tubing for the most part, correct?

Is that 4800 GPH a typo? Nevermind, I googled it.



So, you are expecting to be able to achieve sub-zero temps with your "boil via vacuum" cooling system, correct? That sub-zero C or F? And at what load?


Are you going to be incorporating "ultrasonics" into this system?

Other previous questions unanswered/unverified:

Right, but that's what you are going to boil via vacuum to provide the cooling, correct? Apparently PVC?

What are the candidates for a slurry if you go that route?

What kind of temps are you expecting to be able to acheive? and under what load?

[Naja002]

You missed what I said here. I said I'm thinking of NOT trying to obtain sub-zero temperatures. Some of the stuff you've said elsewhere really hit home. I understood what you were saying, and took it into account. So I'm trying to be more pragmatic about the capabilities of the build. The realities of economics are substantially influential here. I get it.

Right, but I think that is in reference to using a refrigeration type system--a more "traditional" refrigerant phase-change system. So, "refrigeration" is basically out. Good. Because with it--all this is hooey. Worthless garbage. If you are going to do this--Cool. If you are going to do a "water chiller" (refrigerant/phase-change)--then do that. Both systems will not work together.

No. I don't expect to get sub-zero temperatures from using low-pressure boiling. I know that's how it's achieved in refrigeration systems. But this is an entirely different beast.

Ok, Cool. So, how much cooling effect do you expect to achieve and at what capacity?

Yes, this is an entirely different beast....and that's the point. No phase-change/refrigerant. The 2 systems will not/cannot work favorably toward each other. So, it's one or the other. This project is about your "boil in a vacuum" cooling system. Let's not lose sight of that.

As far as ultrasonics go, I'm not sure about that either. Not because it would be difficult, but because it brings a whole new level of cost to the project. Although, ultrasonics in the form of humidifiers can be brought cheaply on the internet. You really wouldn't need too many of them to contribute to the liquid's cavitation.

It's going to be a fairly small quantity of liquid in the system, so cost should really not be an issue. You spent how many times as much on the Res's? The pump? You linked to some inexpensive ultrasonics somewhere--what were they like $10 each. How many you going to need?




-------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, we were both posting at the same time. Give me a minute to edit this.... Edit above line....

[Shingoshi]

Ummmmm, No, that's not hard to understand at all. What's hard to understand is how any of that keeps you from providing info on materials usage, system expectations, etc.

I will be limited to the performance of the combined components I can fit in this case. I just don't want to say one thing, and then have to eat my words, so to speak. So again, I'm trying to be conservative about my expectations and goals.

Not only is this case not very deep, neither are my pockets, if you know what I mean.

Shingoshi

[Naja002]

I will be limited to the performance of the combined components I can fit in this case. I just don't want to say one thing, and then have to eat my words, so to speak. So again, I'm trying to be conservative about my expectations and goals.

Right, but you should have a reasonable idea of what the load is going to be and what the cooling effect is going to be. As far as "eating my words": many people have issues with that. Personally, I don't. In my project threads I point out my failures, goofs and stupidity. I'm human--that's the way it is. If everything always worked out perfectly--where would the fun be? Where's the challenge? I'm no rocket scientist--just some guy that likes to learn and actually check things out.

Not only is this case not very deep, neither are my pockets, if you know what I mean.

Shingoshi

I understand on both counts. I squander most of my dimes on these projects. It's all good. I'm only going to live until I die anyway, so WTF.....

[Shingoshi]

The NPT ports on my reservoirs are 1" females. Pentek makes a head that has 1.5" female NPT ports. But supposedly, it won't fit on my sumps. So last night, I got the idea of tapping the existing threads to 1 1/4". I think there's enough room to do that. But I want to know what problems could I create by doing so?
1.) Could I weaken the ports too much. I don't see how. Because the 1.5" heads don't look any different than the heads I have.

I looked for the prices of 1 1/4" NPT taps. And they're almost as much as buying another smaller 10" filter housing with the 1.5" ports as standard (http://filter.filtersfast.com/search...core&view=list).
But I'm not sure if I would have the room to add yet another reservoir, no matter how small it is. It would be advantageous. Because then I wouldn't have so much trouble figuring out how I'm going to mount my injector. But again, I have to wait to see if it's even possible. I almost want to return these housings. But that would really kill my spirit in doing this. Because the cosmetics are integral to the build itself. I want to see the liquid boiling in the reservoirs. Just like scenes from old TV shows. Frankenstein and the like. So this is also about emotion. I want to continue to be fascinated with this build.

That's why I don't want to give any specs. It would just be premature.

Shingoshi

[Shingoshi]

I understand on both counts. I squander most of my dimes on these projects. It's all good. I'm only going to live until I die anyway, so WTF.....

I'm 52, about to be 53 next month. Every time I hear of another death, especially of someone I respected so much as Walter Cronkite, parts of me die too. He was part of my childhood. Maybe it's my age. I'm doing this project much for the very reason that you've stated here. I have to forget how little I have to work with, and just work with what life offers me. But I'm becoming increasingly cognizant of that as I get older. And with the condition of my health, this swine flu really scares me.

Part of me really just wants to leave some sort of legacy behind when I'm gone. I don't want my ideas to die with me. C'est la vie.

Shingoshi

[Naja002]

The NPT ports on my reservoirs are 1" females. Pentek makes a head that has 1.5" female NPT ports. But supposedly, it won't fit on my sumps. So last night, I got the idea of tapping the existing threads to 1 1/4". I think there's enough room to do that. But I want to know what problems could I create by doing so?
1.) Could I weaken the ports too much. I don't see how. Because the 1.5" heads don't look any different than the heads I have.

I looked for the prices of 1 1/4" NPT taps. And they're almost as much as buying another smaller 10" filter housing with the 1.5" ports as standard (http://filter.filtersfast.com/search...core&view=list).
But I'm not sure if I would have the room to add yet another reservoir, no matter how small it is. It would be advantageous. Because then I wouldn't have so much trouble figuring out how I'm going to mount my injector. But again, I have to wait to see if it's even possible. I almost want to return these housings. But that would really kill my spirit in doing this. Because the cosmetics are integral to the build itself.

That's why I don't want to give any specs. It would just be premature.

Shingoshi

Go to Lowes (not Home Depot--Lowes has a 1000x better plumbing dept). You may get lucky and find a 1" x 1.5" adapter. If not, then you can certainly piece it together.

[Shingoshi]

We BOTH shop at Lowe's! That's why I think we live in the same town. Because they've mentioned someone who could fit your description (by the nature of your builds) having been in there too. Granted we could be across country from one another. But it would be kind of scary to think there's someone else in this town other than you more crazy than I am!!

Shingoshi

[Naja002]

What components do you have in-house?

What has been ordered/shipped?

What do you still need to order/purchase?

[Shingoshi]

What components do you have in-house?

What has been ordered/shipped?

What do you still need to order/purchase?

1.) I have my reservoirs and cooling loop already built from a previous system. It has four cooling blocks already plumbed (originally for my Tyan S4980).
2.) My case has already been ordered. Should ship next week.
3.) I still need to get my Danner pump, and the injector. I think I will order the pump first.

The pump and the injector cost about the same. But I'll likely only be able to get one at a time. That's with me sticking to the 2081A/2083X pump. I'm waiting to hear back from Mazzei, what the difference is between them.

I really need to do some more reality checks. I need to make sure I'm not biting off more than I can chew, or is practical.

Shingoshi

[Shingoshi]

I live in a world of speculative thinking. Theory and theoretical speculation is what I love. And here's a perfect example of this.

Background: Since I'm dealing with vapors, and clouds are bodies of vapor, this is no stretch for me. I was wondering about the term supersaturation as it refers to vapor. So once more I turned to my friend Wikipedia. Here's something that I found:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_physics
Supersaturation

Supersaturation of more than 1-2% relative to water is rarely seen in the atmosphere.[5] For high levels of supersaturation there must be no condensation nuclei for the water vapor to condense on.

Supersaturation can also occur relative to ice. This is much more common in the atmosphere than supersaturation relative to water. Water droplets are able to maintain supersaturation relative to ice (remain as ice water droplets and not freeze) because of the high surface tension of each microdroplet, which prevents them from expanding to form larger ice crystals. Without ice nuclei supercooled liquid water droplets can exist down to about -40 C/F, at which point they will spontaneously freeze.

Now I had dismissed to possibility of obtaining sub-zero temperatures using nothing other than vacuum-induced boiling. But stay with me for a moment on this. In an absorption refrigerator, heat is used to evaporate ammonia and butane from water in the system. The butane is later separated from the ammonia, with the evaporating butane causing the ammonia to become cooled.

And my question has always been, since the purpose of using heat (due to a lack of electricity) is used to boil the ammonia/butane/water mixture, if you actually have electricity available to use, why can't you run a vacuum pump to achieve the same function to boil the mixture. Remember, we're only after the result here, not the method. The result is to evaporate a gas from a liquid. The original method used heat. But what if you could boil that liquid by another means.

So let's say that the Mazzei Injectors are indeed strong enough to produce the desired strength of vacuum. And think of this. I could use multiple smaller Mazzei Injectors connected to a single pump. The combined strength of the vacuum produced should definitely do what's required here. You would simply need to mount the Injectors on a manifold to distribute the flow from the pump to all of them. Why couldn't the Injectors be used as our means to evaporate butane from a liquid instead of using heat. Water holds butane rather well. And the colder the water, the more butane it will hold. The advantage here being the more butane present, the colder the temperatures will be from it's evaporation. You could wind up with a refrigerator, driven by nothing more than a vacuum pump.

I don't know. I was just thinking about this. And it has been bugging me for a long time now.

Shingoshi

[Shingoshi]

If you've read the thread well, you will see that Mazzei Injectors will increase the flow of liquid in your system. There's one model in particular which I think most builders can use without modification to their systems. That model is the #484. It has 1/2" MPT fittings on both the intake and outlet of the injector. The suction port is 1/4" MPT. With those fittings, just about anyone can use this.

So the challenge is to get one, and see how much your temperatures drop as a result of the increased flow through your system. It will increase your flow 5 times over what you have now!

Just search for "Mazzei Injector #484". You could even do a product search for quick results.

MAKE SURE TO USE 1/2" BRAIDED PVC TUBING, AND RADIATOR HOSE CLAMPS!!
Like the kind you would get from Lowe's.

Good Luck!
Shingoshi