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Thread: Bong! Bong! Bong! --56K Warning!

  1. #1
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    Bong! Bong! Bong! --56K Warning!

    Ask not for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for me...



    Bong! Bong! Bong!




    Setup a Dual Bong Cooler in my mega-loop. For those not familiar with my WCing system...check out this thread:

    Yes, Another Car Radiator Thread....Major 56K Warning!


    Nothing new in the Bong Cooler--idea has been around a long time and done by many others. So far I am averaging res temps that are 3.3-7C (6-12F) below ambient.

    I've had this bong cooler setup for a couple of weeks now. However, I started it in a tub and moved it into a permanent setup today.

    My current cooling setup is as follows:

    Res> Pump> Manifold> 3 PCs> Manifold> Stacked Dual Car Rads> Bong Coolers> Res

    Each PC is a single loop--Cpu, Nb: 1-1xGpu, 2-2xGpu

    Here's the pix--apologies in advance for the quality of some of them:



    That's the big picture. 1/2 of the cooler top is not on in that pic. The housing for the stacked dual car rads and fans can be seen in the background.



    Res with the top on completely. I knew that I was going to want/need to look/check/get in there periodically....so I cut the top in half! Anything else would have required me to shut down the rigs and cooling system, and remove the bongs just to get a peek inside. Worked out pretty good. Cheapo $26 cooler from wally-world.


    Last edited by Naja002; 05-10-2009 at 12:01 AM.

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    I don't have any 12v psu in my out building and have never wanted to set one up out there when 120v is just so much easier to work with....So, after looking around, I decided to give these Walmart clip-on fans a try. They work very well. High is 13w each and low is only 8w. They work so well that I had a misting issue that I fixed with the goofy elbows at the top of the bongs.


    Now it's easy to see that the fans do not fit nice and neatly into the PVC fitting. I pondered for several days on how to make a fan "shroud" that would funnel all of the air into the PVC intake. Tossed around many ideas. In the end I found these cheap plastic bowls at Walmart:


    I grabbed a fan off the shelf and took it out of the box to check the fit and....viola! Perfect!


    I drilled the large hole through the bottom of the bowl and it fit perfectly with the opening of the PVC intake. Problem is: It didn't work worth a flip. The only thing that I can gather is that instead on funneling the air--it just creates a lot of turbulence inside the bowl. Performance was greatly decreased with the bowls v. without. So, I decided to leave well enough alone and rock-n-roll with it shroud free. But I did need a way to secure the fans:


    So I drilled a triad of holes and secured the fans with zip ties.

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    So, now that that's out of the way, let's take a gander inside the res:






    Mega Prefilter for the pump. It has the course filter with the finer blue filter wrapped around that:



    Next--cuz I'm lazy--is the float valve for auto refill. There's simply zero possibily that I will keep up with evaporation, so, uh, yeah:

    The water supply line can be seen in the pix above also. Yeah, finally got around to running a 1/2" pvc water line into my out-building.




    Finally, just a general view into the res:

    The pump is connected to a bulk head fitting--which luckily was long enough to reach all the way through the cooler. Water pumps through the bulkhead and heads to the PCs:


  4. #4
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    What a mess, huh? After going through the PCs the water returns and comes back up through the floor. It's then sent into the dual car rads and comes out to the bong coolers.


    As stated earlier, I had a misting issue where the airflow was carrying small droplets of water out the top. Over time this was getting everything below wet--including the 120v fans. My fix was simply these goofy elbows--Hey, it works!



    The 4" to 2" fittings on the tops are really not necessary. I picked those up "just in case", but they do increase the air velocity and help push that cooler air up toward the top of the out-building--hopefully helping to keep things a wee bit cooler out there. It's been rainy, cloudy, etc, so it will be a while before I can tell much. Anyway, the double elbows definitely fixed the misting issue.


    In order to get the elbows over the cooling system supply line....I had to whip out the jig saw:





    The blue filter padding helps keep condensation from dripping out and down the side.


    Finally, the water enters the Bongs via 2 shower heads that I found at walmart for $2.88 each...plus tax, of course.




  5. #5
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    Here's an idea of the effect:

    Building temps--high up and lower toward the floor:




    Res Temps:


    As I said earlier, I've been running this for a couple of weeks...the cooler is what's new today. The temps get much better, but it's been cloudy and rainy with high humidity. Not sure why the 1 thermometer reads 62%--maybe that's accurate...maybe not--I don't know. What I do know is that everything has been very wet around here for a while now. I figure that when it dries up and the sun comes out--things will improve. I've seen 12F below ambient a number of times before this constant raininess. 12F would mean low 80's F (High 20's C) during the heat of the summer. We'll see what happens!


    Cost:

    Cooler $26
    4" PVC and fittings ~$83
    Misc PVC $20 or less
    Shower heads $6
    Clip-on fans $20

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    You sir are full of ideas I love the fact that it works best when you need it most.

    Re the shrouds. Sheet material rolled into a cone where the angles of the walls do not exceed 20 degrees (a fluid dynamics thing learnt too meny years ago) then trim cone to size each end and apply tiewraps and or tape.

    Just an idea from the Heath Robinson school.


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    I love bong coolers, they're the ultimate in ghetto hax cooling. Props to you for implementation and for neatly dealing with the misting and refill issues.
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  8. #8
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    Damn, bong coolers are so awesome, the ultimate in watercooling

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    You sir are full of ideas I love the fact that it works best when you need it most.

    Re the shrouds. Sheet material rolled into a cone where the angles of the walls do not exceed 20 degrees (a fluid dynamics thing learnt too meny years ago) then trim cone to size each end and apply tiewraps and or tape.

    Just an idea from the Heath Robinson school.
    Thanx! All of this stuff helps keep me busy and in my own yard! Hobbies within hobbies is what all of this has turned into: PC and internet generally, Crunching, Water cooling, periodic OCing....the list goes on.

    I've considered the basic concept the you are referring to, but I just really don't want to add anymore to the "ghettoness" of it all. Right now, I'm just glad that it's up and running well. My next concern is things like Legionnaires' disease. Trying to figure out a long term way to keep this setup disinfected. Someone had mentioned polypropylene glycol as a good non-evaporative disinfectant, but right now I'm still looking into things. I may try a funnel shaped setup like you mentioned, but it actually works very well as is...

    Quote Originally Posted by SoulsCollective View Post
    I love bong coolers, they're the ultimate in ghetto hax cooling. Props to you for implementation and for neatly dealing with the misting and refill issues.
    Thanx! Both of those issues had to be dealt with, luckily I've managed to come up with solutions that work for me!


    Quote Originally Posted by KaptCrunch View Post
    just a note when winter comes need to use some anti-freeze in loop

    great work implementing this set-up
    Thanx! During the winter everything will go back on the indoor rad in order to provide heat for inside.... Worked great this last winter. The only issue was that it was an unusually long, cold winter.


    Quote Originally Posted by [XC] gomeler View Post
    Damn, bong coolers are so awesome, the ultimate in watercooling
    Yep! Agreed. I think they are really going to help out this summer...especially when it's warm and dry. Water is cheap around here....

    Just wanted to add a pic that I forgot to take yesterday:


    Both of the bongs have these cutouts to help the cool water get into the res...

    Temps from today--ambient outside is ~23C/73F

    Temps in the out-building:


    Temps in the res:


    I may need to do a better job of venting the heat out of the out-building. Right now it just has a passive vent on each end. I think a small fan may help. Implementing it is the question though....

  10. #10
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    Nice job! I have always wanted to mess with this but didn't want to deal with the refill issue. That's a great idea using the float valve.
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    Insert obligatory 'Bong' joke here... That being said, very nice implementation of the often discussed bong concept
    Last edited by Plan.B; 05-11-2009 at 02:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Utnorris View Post
    Nice job! I have always wanted to mess with this but didn't want to deal with the refill issue. That's a great idea using the float valve.
    Thanx! Just get a float valve and some ice maker tubing...works great. All of my aquariums were/are fully automated....auto-water changes and everything. Didn't even have to feed the fish....

    For anyone wanting to incorporate a float valve into a project--these work well and they are adjustable:

    Mini PVC Float Valves

    I have 3 of those and they are reliable.

    The Kent Marine Float valve pictured above in the project is just as good, but it's ~$20, instead of ~$9...




    Quote Originally Posted by Plan.B View Post
    Insert obligatory 'Bong' joke here... That being said, very nice implementation of the often discussed bong concept
    Thanx! So far it's working well. Keeps the res temps at or below ambient...
    Last edited by Naja002; 05-24-2009 at 10:21 AM.

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    Please tell me that is not TAP WATER... If it is..Enjoy cleaning your crusty water block every 2 weeks.

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    I really appreciate your thread here Naja002. This is the first time I have seen a bong cooler so fully explained and with all the details taken in hand. Your concern about disinfecting the loop is one of the reasons I have held off from using any evap cooling out here in the workshop. If you find something that works pleas update us on that.

    Inspirational stuff

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    Quote Originally Posted by NotSoCoolJ View Post
    Please tell me that is not TAP WATER... If it is..Enjoy cleaning your crusty water block every 2 weeks.
    My question would be: How much do you actually know about water? Are you speaking from experience? Or just what you've read on forums?

    I've been using this tap water for almost 1 yr now. The biggest issue isn't from the water...it's from debris during filling. It's much easier to get debris inside a system this size then in an average WCing loop. Now with the bongs--it may be even more of an issue...that's the purpose of the pump prefilter--hopefully it will help. Additionally, I have an old Koolance case that I run. It's been on this tap water for quite some time now....no crusty block issues with it.

    This whole car rad setup has been on tap water since day 1 (6-3-08). I've had to clean the blocks twice. The "gunk" inside is more from debris generally then the water itself.


    Quote Originally Posted by CyberDruid View Post
    I really appreciate your thread here Naja002. This is the first time I have seen a bong cooler so fully explained and with all the details taken in hand. Your concern about disinfecting the loop is one of the reasons I have held off from using any evap cooling out here in the workshop. If you find something that works pleas update us on that.

    Inspirational stuff
    Thanx, CD! I guess the only way I'd know if something didn't work was if I got sick... Anyway, I've read what seems to be some conflicting stuff. Seems as though it's a valid issue, but not really a prevalent one. But being in a closed-in building....I still need to take it seriously, I think. But, Yes, I will offer whatever I come up with...
    Last edited by Naja002; 05-14-2009 at 06:09 PM.

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    One thing to point out, is be very careful adding anything but water into the loop. Most things, like anit-freeze can and do evaporate and can cause poisoning in the air around it.
    Be very careful with any additives, they can cause the air to become polluted and actually poison you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IFMU View Post
    One thing to point out, is be very careful adding anything but water into the loop. Most things, like anit-freeze can and do evaporate and can cause poisoning in the air around it.
    Be very careful with any additives, they can cause the air to become polluted and actually poison you.
    Absolutely! Definitely agreed. So, that's why my first step is going to try to keep it simple.

    My tentative plan:

    I have one of these that I'm not using:

    Turbo Twist 18w UV



    Conveniently, it's already setup in "over-hang" format:

    Old Pic:




    The UV was initially purchased for the aquatic snakes in my sig and setup to kill pathogens, so the pump is small for a low flow:



    This can run 24/7 and pose no risk to myself or others.

    Step 2 is a periodic dose of either bleach, vinegar or both. Apparently mixing bleach and white vinegar increases the disinfectant qualities many fold.

    Here's a quick read:

    Vinegar Increases Killing Power of Bleach
    --very bottom:

    American Society for Microbiology
    February 19, 2006

    Adding white vinegar to diluted household bleach greatly increases the disinfecting power of the solution, making it strong enough to kill even bacterial spores. Researchers from MicroChem Lab, Inc. in Euless, Texas, report their findings today at the 2006 ASM Biodefense Research Meeting.
    Sodium hypochlorite (NaOCl) in the form of laundry bleach is available in most households. The concentrate is about 5.25 to 6 percent NaOCl, and the pH value is about 12. Sodium hypochlorite is stable for many months at this high alkaline pH value.
    "Laundry bleach is commonly diluted about 10 to 25-fold with tap water to about 2000 to 5000 parts per million of free available chlorine for use as an environmental surface disinfectant, without regard to the pH value of the diluted bleach. However, the pH value is very important for the antimicrobial effectiveness of bleach," says Norman Miner, a researcher on the study.
    At alkaline pH values of about 8.5 or higher, more than 90 percent of the bleach is in the form of the chlorite ion (OCl-), which is relatively ineffective antimicrobially. At acidic pH values of about 6.8 or lower, more than 80 percent of the bleach is in the form of hypochlorite (HOCl). HOCl is about 80 to 200 times more antimicrobial than OCl-

    "Bleach is a much more effective antimicrobial chemical at an acidic pH value than at the alkaline Ph value at which bleach is manufactured and stored. A small amount of household vinegar is sufficient to lower the pH of bleach to an acidic range," says Miner.

    Miner and his colleagues compared the ability of alkaline (pH 11) and acidified (pH 6) bleach dilutions to disinfect surfaces contaminated with dried bacterial spores, considered the most resistant to disinfectants of all microbes. The alkaline dilution was practically ineffective, killing all of the spores on only 2.5 percent of the surfaces after 20 minutes. During the same time period the acidified solution killed all of the spores on all of the surfaces.
    "Diluted bleach at an alkaline pH is a relatively poor disinfectant, but acidified diluted bleach will virtually kill anything in 10 to 20 minutes," says Miner. "In the event of an emergency involving Bacillus anthracis spores contaminating such environmental surfaces as counter tops, desk and table tops, and floors, for example, virtually every household has a sporicidal sterilant available in the form of diluted, acidified bleach."

    Miner recommends first diluting one cup of household bleach in one gallon of water and then adding one cup of white vinegar.
    Now there's is no way I could recommend using bleach in a setup like this in an indoor situation. My out-building is just that: an out-building. I don't live out there and generally do not spend a lot of time out there, so it becomes much less of an issue--for me. Additionally, I'm not really looking to apply a shock treatment. We're talking lower levels....like what? A swimming pool or less. I have no intention of pounding this with bleach. Aside from any health hazards are considerations for corroding the items in the building--don't wanna do that!

    The upside to mixing: Distilled water is considered neutral, but is really about pH 7.4....still very neutral, but not quite the 7.0 that most folks think it is....
    The bleach pH 0f 11-12 is just way too high anyway. Vinegar is an acid, so they help neutralize each other to a degree. I've kept planted tanks and my aquatic snakes in pH as low as 5.7--they love it! My only point is the effect on the blocks, tubing, et al....should be a non-issue.

    That particular excerpt "recommends first diluting one cup of household bleach in one gallon of water and then adding one cup of white vinegar." I would guess that I have 5-6 gals of water in this setup these days. So, I'm willing to assume that 1 cup of bleach and 1-2 cups of vinegar would be a reasonable starting point and I think that's what I will try. I just sold off my pH/C02 controllers, so I'll have to whip out the drop kit and check the pH. My water is normally pH 8.0-8.2. Even though vinegar is a disinfectant in itself....that article is focused of the benefits of bleach at a lower pH.

    I'll keep reading around and keep putzing around with things and we'll see how it goes....


    EDIT:

    I emailed Alex Petra about the PT Nuke, ie, Copper(II) sulfate pentahydrate and he says that the Copper(II) sulfate pentahydrate is non-evaporative. That was my instinct and is further supported by Wikipedia:

    Copper(II) sulfate

    Copper(II) sulfate pentahydrate decomposes before melting, losing four water molecules at 110 °C and all five at 150 °C. At 650 °C, copper(II) sulfate decomposes into copper(II) oxide (CuO) and sulfur trioxide (SO3). Its blue color is due to water of hydration. When heated in an open flame the crystals are dehydrated and turn grayish-white.
    I really hope not to be hitting 650C any time soon.....


    I added 1 cup of bleach and 2 cups of vinegar. Went back out there a little while ago and the scent of bleach was a bit more then I prefer. So, I'm going to have to see how long it lasts. I will probably do a periodic bleach dose and focus more on the vinegar, PT Nuke and silver. So, ATM there's 1 cup bleach, 2 cups white vinegar and 40 drops of PT Nuke in the system.


    For the incoming dust, etc from the fan intakes--I cut some of these filter pads and micro-filter pads to fit inside the bottom of the bongs:



    Just above the opening here:



    They are made for aquarium filters. At the rate of flow plus gravity....there shouldn't be any issues. I'll just need to take them out and clean them periodically. How often? I don't know right now, but I would guess no more then once/month. Micro pad on top and 20 ppi on the bottom.



    Also: Anybody have any thoughts on the toilet bowls disinfectants that are added to the toilet tank and dissolve slowly over time? My first concern would be the dissolving part--clogging up the blocks. Any thoughts?
    Last edited by Naja002; 05-22-2009 at 02:43 AM.

  18. #18
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    Very interesting setup. maybee i try this too. Thank you
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    Quote Originally Posted by A2C View Post
    Very interesting setup. maybee i try this too. Thank you
    Give it a try. Very inexpensive and very effective.....can't beat that!





    Ok, after swapping some PMs with nub (@OCN) about this and other stuff I decided to make a modification to my bongs. I don't think this is exactly what nub had in mind, but this is what I've come up with. Mind you--it didn't work out quite as well as planned.....

    First start with some pvc fittings and pipe, drill and bits, towel, zip ties and a few other odds-n-ends:




    Cut the pipe and mount the fittings, and drill some holes. The very top holes (4x 3/32") are for a "spray" to run down the walls, the smaller holes (8x 1/16") are for wicking:





    Drill another set of 1/16" holes (8x) a little further down:




    I drilled a single 1/16" hole into each cap just so the water in the bottom part of the tube would not get stagnant:




    Cut the terry cloth towel to fit. Zip tied it below the top spray holes and over the first set of wicking holes:




    The tubes/wicking will extend all the way down to/past the fan input area:




    Here's a vid of the function. Too many holes and too big. If I would have used less holes and smaller top spray holes--this would have turned out better:



    Live and learn. I may fix it, but I'm not really in the mood right now. I have to shut down the rigs et al in order to work on it.
    Last edited by Naja002; 05-24-2009 at 10:53 AM.

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    Ok, messed up the bong mod a bit and it took me a minute to figure out a simple way to fix what I screwed up! Once it dawned on me....it was like: well, yeah, DUH! Too many holes and some that are just too big. Here's the fix:

    Cut some pieces of pvc pipe of workable length and then split them:




    Add some pvc glue to the pipe and DIY "Collars".....and attach collars:




    Drill fewer and/or smaller holes:




    Cut a few zip ties in order to get the terry cloth back up over the collars and then re-zip-tie:




    Get everything set back up and check the functionality:





    So I wound up with 3 rows of 4x 1/16" holes....12x 1/16" holes total...per tube.

    Ok. I'm Happy now.


    Edit: Amazing. Truly Amazing. The Bongs are virtually silent now. Almost zero water noise and the only sound left is the fans. At 13w or 8w....they are not very loud at all. Very Cool.

    Outside ambient is ~83F. Out-building ambient is 95F. Res temp is 85F and HVC temp is 83.5F. I just turned on the car rad fans after having them off for 8hrs. Looking to see what effect that has on the out-building temps and all the others....
    Last edited by Naja002; 05-24-2009 at 10:32 AM.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naja002 View Post
    Added a small element to this setup. I've kept aquariums on and off for many years. Last few years they have been fully automated. Auto: Water changes, lights, C02, Fert dosing, etc, etc, etc.....don't even need to feed the fish. Anyway, Appliance timers really help out on that. I have some extras that I'm not currently using, so I decided to hook up a double appliance timer:





    This timer controls 2 appliances which is perfect for my car rad fans:



    I should have done this sooner. The day time highs and the night time lows--during spring and fall-- are a real pita, because during the day I have to watch my cpu high temps and at night I have to watch out for condensation when temps outside get somewhere below 48F/9C. During the winter the setup is switched over to the indoor rad to help provide winter heat, so that's not a problem. But spring and fall are murder.....

    Right now the fans are set to come on at 9am and go off at 11pm. That will save 10hrs of wear-n-tear and a little juice (90w on high). I will probably run the fans 24/7 once summer temps get here, but we'll see what happens there.

    The Bongs and Horizontal Volenti Cooler handle the load very well. The only issue may be the high humidity at night and during the early morning. So, for now, between 11pm and 9am the system will run on the Bongs and HVC. Adjustments will be made as temps/issues rise....
    Just quoting this over here, since turning off the car rad fans will leave the system cooling to the bongs....

  22. #22
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    Holy CRAP Naja!! You have been a busy beaver!! Nice set up you have. I need to get some time to get on msn with ya.

    I cant wait to see you when you start messing with phase.
    Quote Originally Posted by mike047 View Post
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    Silver can also aid as an effective biocide.

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    Quote Originally Posted by [XC] Hicks121 View Post
    Holy CRAP Naja!! You have been a busy beaver!! Nice set up you have. I need to get some time to get on msn with ya.

    I cant wait to see you when you start messing with phase.
    Aaaaaah, it's the prodigal partner in crime! I sent the dogs out, but they never came back. I figured you ate them,.....or whatever ate You...ate them.

    I definitely won't be going phase in the foreseeable future, but I did come a hair last week from picking up an A/C and a 5-day cooler. Just really, really, really don't need to spend the money (~$300), and that would scrap all of this--rads, bongs, HVC....


    Quote Originally Posted by THE JEW (RaVeN) View Post
    Silver can also aid as an effective biocide.
    Yep. It was mentioned above. But thanx for mentioning it!



    Just wanted to toss this up here:



    i7 @3.4 (and 2 other quads) running on the Bongs and HVC only. Ambient outside is 52F/11C. Last 160hrs the max is 68C--that's bongs/HVC only at night, and bongs/HVC + Rad Fans from 9am until 11pm. Highs outside in the low 80'sF/ ~28C.

    Not too bad really. It's about 90% humidity.

    The i7 will do a whole lot more, of course, but the ApogeeGT block just can't handle it, so I've turned it down probably for the summer. Trying to keep the High below 75C, preferably around 70C or less.....
    Last edited by Naja002; 05-30-2009 at 07:13 AM.

  25. #25
    Xtreme Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Salem, OR
    Posts
    230

    A question for the unenlightened...

    Naj,
    I could have asked this personally. But just in case someone else wants to know the same thing, I'm asking it openly:

    Without concern for condensation, what's the lowest temperatures that this (evaporative) method of cooling is capable of achieving?

    I'm not concerned about condensation, because my equipment is already prepared for it. So that's not something that needs to be discussed here. I simply want to know how to best maximize the performance of a bong to the lowest temperatures physically possible.

    If you can, please list the components individually that need to be changed. Either in configuration, or their size.

    Thanks!
    Shingoshi
    The distribution of knowledge must not be the commodity of tyranny.
    Solution: The immediate equalization of all knowledge among all beings.

    Expand your mind, advance our world!
    >=(o_6)=>
    http://www.linuxquestions.org/blog/shingoshi-297853/

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