Fan Testing Part 2 (Retesting + Noise)

[Hondacity]

Check "Radiator Air Flow vs RPM" chart. At 1450 RPM the AP-15 moves about 25CFM through a RS120, according to it.

So 25CFM AP-14 vs 34CFM AP-15. That would mean AP-15 moves 36% more air in that test.

Correct me if im wrong (tired).

Oh and it appears there is a 2150RPM version:
http://catalog.nidec-servo.com/digit...pdf/D1225C.pdf

you almost got it...and thats what i was trying to point out... i've been waiting for the 2150 ...for quite sometime now..scythe never came back on me bout that...

[millertime359]

you almost got it...and thats what i was trying to point out... i've been waiting for the 2150 ...for quite sometime now..scythe never came back on me bout that...

I wonder why they never released it. That might do nice on the high FPI rads.

[Martinm210]

I wonder why they never released it. That might do nice on the high FPI rads.

I think the GT blade and fan was actually designed around the low RPM range at least from what I could read on the Servo Nidec site, I think they mentioned that somewhere. It's probably one of those things were one size does not fit all. The blade design is probably optimal for the lower speed range and it may struggle with the higher speed stuff.?

Who knows though. Take apart a couple of GTs and some higher speed motors and make your own fan..

[millertime359]

Who knows though. Take apart a couple of GTs and some higher speed motors and make your own fan..

Wish i could, but still working on my random computer stuff collection.

[Gardenofwar]

Yep, I live in po dunk southern Oregon. You're up there near Danger Den in Astoria, you should go give those good folks a visit some time.

Good questions:

I never tried an AP-14, only the 15 so I couldn't tell you. I do know that with some of the fans that I have tested in the same family like the S-Flex, that there was enough difference between models that I wouldn't generalize too much. Each and every fan seems to have more of an individual character, so you almost need to try both side by side to ensure.

You are correct about the dead spot issue, it's another variable that influences what CFM level leads to bottom line radiator performance. The only way to eliminate that variable would be to test each and every fan on a radiator. The issue is time in testing, it's prohibitive to do the same on a radiator. The CFM flow bench style testing can be done very quickly. I could measure CFM levels almost instantly and because of that captured a data point from 4V to 12V at every volt. So that was 9 data points, and could be done in about 10 minutes.

30 fans translates to about 300minutes or around 5 solid hours of testing. Remounting and the rest accounted for more, so this testing of the data points really probably took me about 10 hours worth of testing.

Testing on a radiator is instead of taking 10 minutes, takes a good 60 minutes depending on the radiator delta and water volume. My radiator test rig has a large reservoir, so a single data point can take 90 minutes of testing time to ensure complete stabilization of the system and quality data.

So...Rad based testing would have taken 90minutes X 10 data points x 30 fans or 450 hours But wait, you'r still not done, because more than likely because of the fan power curves, those results may be slightly different over different types of radiators. In reality, you probably would need to run those same tests over each radiator brand....you could turn this into a lifetime effort that you'd never accomplish because there would continually be new fans.

Anyhow, that's why I used CFM based testing. It's no where near as complete in evaluating the bottom line performance as rad based testing of fans (which does also include dead spot effects), but it's a place to start and sort of a quick look effort which is more effort than I even wanted to do when I started in this mess. You're always more than welcome to tackle the effort yourself though..

I gave all of my fans to skinnee so I could rid myself of this nightmare...it felt quite good sending off that big box..lol!

I would always recommend that you go out and buy a couple of fans for yourself that you're trying to decide between and tinker with them. Use your own test to make your decision....that's the best thing to do..

Thank you and you know that is kind of what I expected. Don't get me wrong though I was not at all displeased with the awesomeness of your efforts and what you have put forth here. I would not have time for something even a quarter as good as what you have presented. It's obvious that your work is appreciated by many other too, thanks. I was just trying to get to the bottom of actual performance in cooling a rad, but it is starting to sound like a pipe dream, lol. I guess in this industry we hatch “tube” dreams instead of pipe dreams. Well I am going to go with the AP-15 and just hope for the best. Sounds like many of you here are very happy with it. I will just do as Millertime suggest and get a fan controller. Thanks guys.

[skinnee]

I gave all of my fans to skinnee so I could rid myself of this nightmare...it felt quite good sending off that big box..lol!

Box arrived safely.

Now what the heck do I do with a all these single fans...

I would always recommend that you go out and buy a couple of fans for yourself that you're trying to decide between and tinker with them. Use your own test to make your decision....that's the best thing to do..

Ah hah! Thats it, I sense fan upgrades coming for my rigs.

[millertime359]

I say that you should build a case that houses all the fans in that box.

[Martinm210]

Box arrived safely.

Now what the heck do I do with a all these single fans...

Ah hah! Thats it, I sense fan upgrades coming for my rigs.

That's exactly what I was thinking.


If nothing else, gut them and make some shrouds out of them, with your rad collection growing, you could shroud up both sides of every one of them..!!

[interDOS]

Martinm210, I read your tests on the XFC 480 and the Single rad push/pull with or without a shroud.

I recently saw a Koolance 480 shroud and wondered what difference if any, in the performance of a 480 rad with 4 individual shrouds when compared with an all-in-one 480 shroud?

I'm at the drawing stage of a scratch build and planning to use a FAN-SHROUD-RAD-SHROUD-FAN setup with each of the 4 x 480 rads or with 2 x 480 and 2 x 360 rads.

[Martinm210]

This was my one and only test and it was done on an RS120 with Yate Loon D12SL12 fans.


The difference between push/pull and push/pull with shrouds on both sides was pretty small only .3C over 7.6C which is only 3%. Keep in mind this was testing with a particular set of fans on one particular radiator. It's probably going to behave differently for your setup. I would expect fans with larger hubs like 38mm fans would see more gain from a shroud, etc.

Fortunately, there's really no negative to using a shroud other than space. My recommendation is if you've got the space and the means, shrouds are always worthwhile. Nobody has really documented it, but there may be some sound quality benefits as well. Just don't expect miracles, .3C on a 1C resolution sensor is not even consider measurable for your average user. You have to appreciate the microscopic gain for what it is.

Hope that helps...

[interDOS]

This was my one and only test and it was done on an RS120 with Yate Loon D12SL12 fans.

The difference between push/pull and push/pull with shrouds on both sides was pretty small only .3C over 7.6C which is only 3%. Keep in mind this was testing with a particular set of fans on one particular radiator. It's probably going to behave differently for your setup. I would expect fans with larger hubs like 38mm fans would see more gain from a shroud, etc.

Fortunately, there's really no negative to using a shroud other than space. My recommendation is if you've got the space and the means, shrouds are always worthwhile. Nobody has really documented it, but there may be some sound quality benefits as well. Just don't expect miracles, .3C on a 1C resolution sensor is not even consider measurable for your average user. You have to appreciate the microscopic gain for what it is.

Hope that helps...

Thanks for that but I think I didn't explain my question very well.

Take two 480 rads, one of the 480 rads is fitted with FOUR 120 shrouds, the other is fitted with ONE SINGLE 480 shroud. Do you think there would be any difference in the air movement and cooling between the rad fitted with four 120 shrouds and the rad with a single 480 shroud?

[Martinm210]

Thanks for that but I think I didn't explain my question very well.

Take two 480 rads, one of the 480 rads is fitted with FOUR 120 shrouds, the other is fitted with ONE SINGLE 480 shroud. Do you think there would be any difference in the air movement and cooling between the rad fitted with four 120 shrouds and the rad with a single 480 shroud?

I never did any testing in that regard, but I would guess that a single shroud would do a small amount better than individual ones since it also helps remove dead spots behind the fan frames in addition to the hub of each fan.

[ascl]

Cathar's guide to fan shrouds:
http://forums.overclockers.com.au/sh...ad.php?t=49874
Mentions (post #21) that adding an internal baffle to separate the chambers between fans increases the airflow. This suggests that 4 separate 120mm shrouds might be better, as the fans are not fighting against each other.

This thread:
http://forums.overclockers.com.au/sh...=shroud+baffle
Suggests a 20% increase by using a baffle (which seems high to me!).

EDIT: yeah this info is old school... but the general principles shouldn't change, and I haven't seen any more recent testing.

[interDOS]

Thanks for the info guys.

My planned scratch built system will have a Top section W: 700mm X D: 575mm X H: 490mm and a detachable bottom cooling section of W: 700mm X D: 575mm X H: 340mm. It's 700mm wide to accommodate 2 mainboards side-by-side in a divided chamber with the boards orientated in the horizontal position.

[demonkevy666]

Cathar's guide to fan shrouds:
http://forums.overclockers.com.au/sh...ad.php?t=49874
Mentions (post #21) that adding an internal baffle to separate the chambers between fans increases the airflow. This suggests that 4 separate 120mm shrouds might be better, as the fans are not fighting against each other.

This thread:
http://forums.overclockers.com.au/sh...=shroud+baffle
Suggests a 20% increase by using a baffle (which seems high to me!).

EDIT: yeah this info is old school... but the general principles shouldn't change, and I haven't seen any more recent testing.

all that's doing is reducing air resistance before the fan. which usually increase the speed of the fan.
it's like putting to nexus beam air on one fan.
btw did anyone try those thin slip stream fans on anything? they look nice for tight spots.

[AndreaBZ]

.......!

To subtract the noise ambient from the total noise I have applied the following formula:

Noise Ambient + Noise Fan = A ; Noise Ambient = B ; Noise FAN = C
FORMULA:
C =10*LOG10((10^(A/10))-(10^(B/10)))

You gets the real noise of the fan
is it everything correct ??
all OK ??

[kevindd992002]

Regarding overall performance, would the San Ace 9G1212H1011/H101 still beat the Gentle Typhoon AP-15?

And what's the real deal of the SFlex-G vs. the GT AP-15? I'm really confused of the mixed comments in the thread. I'm more concerned of undervolting and fan CFM/Noise performance

And if a fan is performing superb in a raidator setup, does that automatically mean that it will also perform good as a case or heatsink fan?

Thanks.

[strike]

could you guys tell me if this fan works to rad?

I think these fans have some specs like a joke

http://www.tacens.com/ventuspro.htm

[Captain H.N.]

Regarding overall performance, would the San Ace 9G1212H1011/H101 still beat the Gentle Typhoon AP-15?

Of course, though the GentleTyphoons might still have a better noise/performance ratio. Martin, are there any plans to test the newer 9G series San Ace H1011? You can easily get one from Chilled PC UK once they get them back in stock, and they'll even pin and/or sleeve it for you for a little extra. Would you feel that the improved static pressure and noise profile makes it worth adding to the charts?

[kevindd992002]

I got one from Chilled PC when they had them on stock. They will have them back around December 18. So with performance alone, the Gentle Typhoon doesn't have a chance against the 9G-H1011?

If you don't care about open or closed corners, then the 9G1212H101 is available at Newark

[Martinm210]

Hey guys,
Sorry no more tests from me.

Regarding the new San Ace, I'd suggest comparing curves from the old fans. If I recall, they provide curves for their products (as should all fan manufacturers IMHO).

Hey AndreaBZ,
Looks good from my limited knowledge of noise. I just chose to record actual recorded and keep ambient fixed. Pretty crude overall though, very low cost meter, close distance measurement, etc. I'm still not sure there is a way to really qantitatively evaluate noise of fans. I think it's really a bit of a lost cause, video or audio recordings of the same setup and relative qualitative evaluations by each user is probably the closest we can do.

Cheers!
Martin

[AndreaBZ]

Hey guys,
Sorry no more tests from me.


Hey AndreaBZ,
Looks good from my limited knowledge of noise. I just chose to record actual recorded and keep ambient fixed. Pretty crude overall though, very low cost meter, close distance measurement, etc. I'm still not sure there is a way to really qantitatively evaluate noise of fans. I think it's really a bit of a lost cause, video or audio recordings of the same setup and relative qualitative evaluations by each user is probably the closest we can do.

Cheers!
Martin

Hey Martin!

I have made a Spreadsheet of some fans that you have tested.
" MLL ...Fans Spreadsheet "



http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...00&postcount=1

Sinned that don't do other tests.

[Hakker]

Personally I was thinking of Enermax Magma or Enermax Everest fans I don't know if anyone uses them in rad setups though. Personally those Yate Loons are too much crap imo. They are like budget stuff Like those Addo fans. Had them and hated them Noisy as hell due to crap material use. Sure Noctuas are for silence but the price is a bit much to add a bucketload of them

[Cyrus104]

Looking at doing a push/pull with a rad. Thinking of doing GT1850's or UK3 (undervolted), I would like the GT's because they are quiet and perform well. The UK 3000 would be nice to be able to run them around or a little lower than the GT's but still have the capability to crank them up if needed. Looks like it would be possible, any thoughts.

[zalbard]

Get GTs.
I have Deltas, they seem to have about the same performance / noise ratio as GTs, but even undervolted the motor noise is pretty bad and really annoying.
38mm fans aren't worth it for 24/7 unless you're ready to put up with the noise.